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Old 4th February 2009, 11:41   #331
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i had got nitrogen filled when i switched to tubeless michelins on my alto. its 4 months now and there is no drop in air pressure yet. one thing i noticed was after a speedy run @ 130 kmph on expressway i found that tyres were not at all hot. now was this because of the michelins or the nitro i cannot verify. earlier my OE tyres used to get hot.
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Old 4th February 2009, 13:04   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Vikram, what I meant was: Have you tried starting with pressure 30 psi (or whatever is the recommended pressure for the Swift), instead of 22 psi? Does the pressure still increase rapidly?
Is this increase happening because of tyre sidewall flexing or very frequent use of brakes?
Yes I have tried that also. With 30psi starting pressure I have ended up at 36 - 40 psi pressure in the tyres. The company recommended pressure for teh Swift petrol is 29psi all round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Gosh, placebo really works!
Of course it works. Why do you think the nitrogen wallas are still in business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
i had got nitrogen filled when i switched to tubeless michelins on my alto. its 4 months now and there is no drop in air pressure yet. one thing i noticed was after a speedy run @ 130 kmph on expressway i found that tyres were not at all hot. now was this because of the michelins or the nitro i cannot verify. earlier my OE tyres used to get hot.
Amit, first of all rubber is a bad conductor of ehat. So by touching the outside surface of the tyre you cannot make out what is going on inside it. Also from the data that I have collected I have found that tyres run cooler on highways. My reasoning for this is that it must be due to less braking that we do on highways unless it is an emergency stop. I have found city driving to be more taxing on the tyres than highways runs.
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Old 4th February 2009, 13:14   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Gosh, placebo really works!
And how. You can say it again.

WOW, some of the benefits listed by the folks here by filling Nitrogen are just so funny.

@vikram_d: Thanks for taking all the trouble for proving something that was quite obvious.
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Old 4th February 2009, 20:27   #334
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Originally Posted by lambuhere1 View Post
One was observed at HP petrol Pump Near Cosmos Mall, Brookfields, Kundalahalli, Marathahalli.

Need to figure out other places , if they are any !
Nitrogen is also available at Pavan Cars, Dr Rajkumar Road, 80 feet road next to HP petrol bunk.

Thanks!
Arun
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Old 5th February 2009, 14:05   #335
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I have been filling nitrogen in my sonata for a while now and its lot cheaper in Pune. It comes for Rs.30/- tyre.

I have ripped my car upto 150 Km/ph without evening feeling if I was at that speed on Mumabi Pune express way. Steering is lot smoother now and the the car just glides, even when I have some work for the suspension to be done.

Other important thing to note is that it is not adivsed to mix normal air with nitrogen, may for heating purposes. What the refiller told me was thatit might eat up the tyre sooner than pure nitrogen. I kept his word because I recently changed tyres!!

All I would say is, it's worth a try!

regards,
Abhishek
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Old 5th February 2009, 15:02   #336
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Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT View Post
What the refiller told me was that it might eat up the tyre sooner than pure nitrogen. I kept his word because I recently changed tyres!!

All I would say is, it's worth a try!
That is howlarious! Just another feather in the cap of the Nitrogen marketing gurus!
Kindly try to shed some light on this issue, with the Gas Laws in mind!
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Old 5th February 2009, 15:05   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT View Post
I have been filling nitrogen in my sonata for a while now and its lot cheaper in Pune. It comes for Rs.30/- tyre.

I have ripped my car upto 150 Km/ph without evening feeling if I was at that speed on Mumabi Pune express way. Steering is lot smoother now and the the car just glides, even when I have some work for the suspension to be done.

Other important thing to note is that it is not adivsed to mix normal air with nitrogen, may for heating purposes. What the refiller told me was thatit might eat up the tyre sooner than pure nitrogen. I kept his word because I recently changed tyres!!

All I would say is, it's worth a try!

regards,
Abhishek
The reason the steering feels good and you feel more planted is that you have new tires and most probably got them balanced and aligned as well.

Nitrogen has no role to play in this.
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Old 5th February 2009, 15:07   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT View Post
It comes for Rs.30/- tyre.
Compressed air is free for all tyres.
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Old 5th February 2009, 15:08   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT View Post

Other important thing to note is that it is not adivsed to mix normal air with nitrogen, may for heating purposes. What the refiller told me was thatit might eat up the tyre sooner than pure nitrogen. I kept his word because I recently changed tyres!!
Air does not eat up rubber , Outer walls of your tyre are always exposed to
21% Oxygen , 78% Nitrogen and 1 % CO2 and other gases ( In simple words Air) and are never eaten up.

People can continue filling whatever they like at the cost they feel happy but as this thread has stretched beyond its life and all sorts of psudo-scientific mumbo jumbo on account of Molecular weight or size are being presented. Some refresher course of high school chemistry.

FACT 1 : Gas diffusion is governed by Grahams law which states.
That rate of diffusion is inversly proportional to sqaure root of density of gas.

FACT 2 : As per Avogadro hypothesis same volume of "any gas" at same temperature and pressure has same number of molecules so density of gas is directly proportional to Molar mass

FACT 3:

Molecular weight of Nitrogen 28.013
Molecular weight of Oxygen 32

Molar Mass ( grams per mole ) of Nitrogen ( N2) 14.0067 g/mol
Molar Mass of Oxygen 16 gms / mole.


As Oxygen is heavier gas as shown above it's density is more and rate of diffusion is less then Nitrogen ( marginal difference though)

Simple calculation shows the ratio of rate of diffusion of nitrogen vs Oxygen would be is 0.18 : 0.17

So be assured that Nitrogen will leak out first from your tyre.

Now In case you are running a F1 Race at unimaginable speeds and tyres gets heated up , Abscence of Oxygen can help prevent combustion of rubber and that may be the reason to fill up nitrogen along with easy availability of dry nitrogen over the shelf.

On road you burn rubber in figurative sense and not physically.


So I rest my case here
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Old 5th February 2009, 15:18   #340
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Some of the benefits of Notrogen filled tyres should be on the Joke thread.

Someone please please ask the IIMs to study the Nitrogen filling phenomenon in India. Man what marketing.

Air eats the tyre - This has to be the best one.
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Old 5th February 2009, 15:20   #341
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^^^One slight correction - while the consideration of molar mass of N is correct, the consideration of molar mass or O2 isn't quite right, due to the fact that we aren't filling pure oxygen in the tyres! We have to consider molar mass of AIR... which is of course about 80% N... so the difference in density of pure N and air is even smaller!
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Old 5th February 2009, 15:29   #342
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Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
^^^One slight correction - while the consideration of molar mass of N is correct, the consideration of molar mass or O2 isn't quite right, due to the fact that we aren't filling pure oxygen in the tyres! We have to consider molar mass of AIR... which is of course about 80% N... so the difference in density of pure N and air is even smaller!
Yes you are correct I was trying to illustrate that replacing rest of 21% oxygen with Nitrogen ( Pure nitrogen instead of Air) does not help in any way as Oxygen is heavier of the two, So nitrogen molecules diffuse slower story can not hold water.
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Old 5th February 2009, 15:32   #343
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It is true that Nitrogen will inhibit the oxidation of the inner (or inside of the tube). In other words it may fail after 15 years instead of say 12. Do we keep our tyres for even half of that length of time. In any case it is advisable to replace tyres at least every 5-6 years.
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Old 5th February 2009, 21:04   #344
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Amitk26, you are right but i don't seem people are interested in knowing facts. If you pay more you can get magic done is the general opinion. all sort of crazy ideas and results are here. dry nitrogen filling has only two advantages i know.
1.the tyre will not catch fire if brakes/tyre overheats (applicable to airplanes)
2.internal corrosion is prevented as moisture is not there.
3. nitrogen freezes at -210, tyre containing normal air will have moisture freezing inside it when you are below 0c. might block the valve from inside, might form small pebbles and keep banging inside of tyre. so if you are driving in sub zero temperatures might as well go for nitrogen.
4. Nitrogen molecules are less likely to escape from the inside of a tire compared with the traditional air mixture used. Air consists mostly of nitrogen and oxygen. Nitrogen molecules have a larger effective diameter than oxygen molecules and therefore diffuse through porous substances more slowly. so its the 22% which is leaking out. with time nitrogen partial pressure will increase with successive fillings. don't they?
any other reason please put in with logical explanations.
78% of tyre already contain nitrogen. if you have the money and want the rims to last few centuries then do fill the rest 22% of tyre with nitrogen at 30 per tyre, and dont use water to clean the rims. dry clean it.

If you are into pampering the car then there is no more logics.

one note of caution:
Rapid release of nitrogen gas into an enclosed space can displace oxygen, and therefore represents an asphyxiation hazard.

Last edited by gigy : 5th February 2009 at 21:21.
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Old 5th February 2009, 21:28   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigy View Post
one note of caution:
Rapid release of nitrogen gas into an enclosed space can displace oxygen, and therefore represents an asphyxiation hazard.
This must have something to do with the rapid release that you have mentioned. Otherwise there is no reason for Nitrogen to displace the HEAVIER Oxygen! Could you please furnish a 'logical explanation' for this? In what context would this happen, etc...
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