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Old 24th April 2010, 23:01   #721
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Default Questionable Benefits of Nitrogen?

I've filled Nitrogen in my Hyundai Tucson recently and the following are the observations based on my TPMS sensor readings (Live monitoring of Tyre Pressure as well as air temperature; accurate to first decimal).

- No loss of pressure (cold tyre pressure) since last 3 weeks: With normal air, I used to be down by ~2 psi gradually in 4-5 weeks: Advantage Nitrogen!!!
- Increase in Tyre pressure after a run of ~10 Km is the same as with normal air. Normal Air and Nitrogen seems to expand the same way!!!
- Increase in Tyre Temperature after a run of ~10 Km is the same as with normal air. Tyre temperature increase with Normal Air as well as Nitrogen hovers around the same point over ambient temperature!!!
- Ride "seems" a little bit more stiffer with Nitrogen (Filled up the same PSI as recommended for normal air)

Results are compared over the last 5 weeks and I don't see any advantage with Nitrogen over Normal Air other than the 1-2 psi leak with normal air in 4-5 weeks. Since I'm just on the 4th week with Nitrogen, I'll wait for a couple of weeks before I conclude whether Nitrogen is any better in holding the pressure compared to Normal air.
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Old 4th May 2010, 12:37   #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Vampire View Post
I've filled Nitrogen in my Hyundai Tucson recently and the following are the observations based on my TPMS sensor readings (Live monitoring of Tyre Pressure as well as air temperature; accurate to first decimal).

- No loss of pressure (cold tyre pressure) since last 3 weeks: With normal air, I used to be down by ~2 psi gradually in 4-5 weeks: Advantage Nitrogen!!!
- Increase in Tyre pressure after a run of ~10 Km is the same as with normal air. Normal Air and Nitrogen seems to expand the same way!!!
- Increase in Tyre Temperature after a run of ~10 Km is the same as with normal air. Tyre temperature increase with Normal Air as well as Nitrogen hovers around the same point over ambient temperature!!!
- Ride "seems" a little bit more stiffer with Nitrogen (Filled up the same PSI as recommended for normal air)

Results are compared over the last 5 weeks and I don't see any advantage with Nitrogen over Normal Air other than the 1-2 psi leak with normal air in 4-5 weeks. Since I'm just on the 4th week with Nitrogen, I'll wait for a couple of weeks before I conclude whether Nitrogen is any better in holding the pressure compared to Normal air.
But there is a major disadvantage also, difficult to find a nearby place to top-up nitrogen and it again cost you more.

I am a guy who is very happy to check the tyre pressures once in every month and I feel the above difficulty, planning to go back to normal air.
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Old 4th May 2010, 13:41   #723
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Ok, i've filled nitrogen is my tyres of my Safari, approx one month back, some things i have observed, firstly the front brakes don't lock up as easily as before, handling is slightly improved, front seat comfort is better as the car is less like driving a mattress and rear seat comfort i'm told is worse, at the moment mostly my mother in law sits there so overall i'm happy. I fell the side walls are stiffer on the large tyres which is why the above improvements have been noted, unless i'm victim of this placebo thing? I'll find out next time i wash my brain.

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Old 4th May 2010, 13:53   #724
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Are you absolutely sure that the air pressure when air was filled is same as the air pressure when nitrogen was filled?
Often nitrogen machine guates are more accurate, so when you fill 30PSI you really fill 30PSI. At Petrol pumps you may be getting 35PSI when you are filling 30PSI.
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Old 4th May 2010, 14:00   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelightening View Post
But there is a major disadvantage also, difficult to find a nearby place to top-up nitrogen and it again cost you more.

I am a guy who is very happy to check the tyre pressures once in every month and I feel the above difficulty, planning to go back to normal air.
Actually is there any problem if I fill normal air in a tyre which previously was inflated with dry nitrogen? I asked this because ain't Nitrogen a major constituent of normal air?
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Old 4th May 2010, 14:35   #726
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Concorde Motors (Tata-Fiat) at Bangalore does this job. There is no harm if you fill nitrogen in your tyres.
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Old 5th May 2010, 13:56   #727
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I regularly fill nitrous in my linea. i have often found that filling nitrogen in petrol bunks are not accurate. the petrol bunks do not calibrate the gauges properly and regularly so it is that you fill 35psi and you end up getting only 30psi of pressure. so i have started filling nitrogen in MRF or Bridgestone outlets which are fairly accurate
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Old 5th May 2010, 14:03   #728
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I've been using nitrogen in my rides for the past few years now. You don't have to worry about leakages, or topping up at regular intervals. Just do a checkup once every two months. The tyres do not heat up on long rides.
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Old 5th May 2010, 21:46   #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Are you absolutely sure that the air pressure when air was filled is same as the air pressure when nitrogen was filled?
Often nitrogen machine guates are more accurate, so when you fill 30PSI you really fill 30PSI. At Petrol pumps you may be getting 35PSI when you are filling 30PSI.
True but the TPMS will tell you if you are getting 35psi instead of 30. I am assuming that your post is in reply to Digital Vampires post.
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Old 5th May 2010, 22:04   #730
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This post should have been in the Michelin P-LC thread (a new set of 5 purchased in the 3rd week March '10 to replace 2 damaged OEM tyres, I don't mix brands or treads) but here goes as the post is more on Nitrogen rather than the tyres themselves.

I had to go to another dealer closer to home, not the one who I purchased the tyres from, for a N 'topup'. The pressure was lower by 2-3 PSI across 4 tyres after >6 weeks of city plus highway use. One may assume that it was due to inaccuracies in different pressure gauges across 2 tyre dealerships. Cost was Rs 50 for a topup across all tyres. This incidentally is the max I ever spent at a shot to keep my tyre pressures up to the required level.

So, to put things in perspective:

a) In the past, I have gone for 10 weeks without an air pressure check with plain ol air and the drop in pressure over this period of time has been the nearly the same.

b) Not sure if I can attest to the tyres running cooler. After a high speed long distance runs of up to 160 kmph on the GQ the tyres did seem warm to touch just as my OEM tyres with good ol air did.

c) This brings me back to SQ-1. Does nitrogen really help? Air is over 78% nitrogen and that remains food for thought. Yes, it is used in aircraft tyres and F1 car tyres. Neither of which can be used to describe my humble city car.

Cheers!
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Old 5th May 2010, 22:56   #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
True but the TPMS will tell you if you are getting 35psi instead of 30. I am assuming that your post is in reply to Digital Vampires post.
Yes, I generally don't depend on the pump/tyre store guages. Rarely I've seen them matching the reading of the TPMS sensor. Whenever I fill air, I add ~5-8 PSI more than required and the next day morning when the tire is cold, I release the excess pressure and maintain recommended cold tyre pressure plus 1 or 2 PSI as indicated by the TPMS. This is to mainly compensate for air expansion inside a hot tire while filling.

Update: On 6th week with Nitrogen and the pressure remains pretty much constant on all 5 Tires. To be precise, the pressure read by the TPMS sensor shows a few decimal places less that it was originally but it could be due to ambient temperature variations as all 5 tires show comparatively similar drop. I'm doing a 600+ km over the next few days. Lets see how different it would be after a long run.

Finding nitrogen filling stations is such a PITA and I may revert back to normal air gradually.

I'm convinced that all those tall claims of nitrogen producing less tire temperature and less pressure variation due to expansion are nothing but placebo effects.

Last edited by Digital Vampire : 5th May 2010 at 22:59.
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Old 6th May 2010, 10:39   #732
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I have nitrogen filled in my tires ever since I got the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post

a) In the past, I have gone for 10 weeks without an air pressure check with plain ol air and the drop in pressure over this period of time has been the nearly the same.

My God, that too, on air? How much did you overfill? 56psi?

b) Not sure if I can attest to the tyres running cooler. After a high speed long distance runs of up to 160 kmph on the GQ the tyres did seem warm to touch just as my OEM tyres with good ol air did.

They don't

c) This brings me back to SQ-1. Does nitrogen really help? Air is over 78% nitrogen and that remains food for thought. Yes, it is used in aircraft tyres and F1 car tyres. Neither of which can be used to describe my humble city car.

I use it because the petrol pump guys periodically loose-fit the valve cap/misplace it & I lose temper and Rs. 2 everytime I need a new cap.Depends on you buddy, Nitrogen tires are hard and may not give you proper cushioning over bumps, but they do give you the extended time between top-ups.
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Old 6th May 2010, 21:52   #733
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Originally Posted by JustCause View Post
I have nitrogen filled in my tires ever since I got the car.
Incidentally I use a digital pressure gauge to monitor my tyre pressure. If you know your tyres well then you'd also know that filling 56 PSI in a car tyre may cause it to burst. The max allowable pressure in the tyres I fitted (Michelins) is ~45 psi. And I fill a max of 31-32 PSI compared to the recommended 30 while enables me to go for extended periods w/o checking the pressure. You may also be aware that tubeless tyres are less prone to pressure loss.

What I jotted down was my experience and I still have N in my tyres. No harm keeping it there. But if you look past the hyperbole you'd probably realise N is well, common place, mostly in the air we breathe.

Cheers!
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Old 10th May 2010, 16:30   #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Vampire View Post
- Ride "seems" a little bit more stiffer with Nitrogen (Filled up the same PSI as recommended for normal air)
In fact, I have a little different observation with my nitrogen filled 05 City, the overall ride seems a bit more smoother than earlier especially on rough roads, on smooth tar couldn't notice much of a difference. Though at close to idle speeds (in parking lot etc) the maneuvering seems a bit heavier (the tyres feel little heavy at slow speeds).

Last edited by Eddy : 10th May 2010 at 18:16. Reason: Removing formatting tags.
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Old 10th May 2010, 21:05   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Incidentally I use a digital pressure gauge to monitor my tyre pressure. If you know your tyres well then you'd also know that filling 56 PSI in a car tyre may cause it to burst. The max allowable pressure in the tyres I fitted (Michelins) is ~45 psi. And I fill a max of 31-32 PSI compared to the recommended 30 while enables me to go for extended periods w/o checking the pressure. You may also be aware that tubeless tyres are less prone to pressure loss.

What I jotted down was my experience and I still have N in my tyres. No harm keeping it there. But if you look past the hyperbole you'd probably realise N is well, common place, mostly in the air we breathe.

Cheers!
I had 50+psi filled in my tube type tyres when taking delivery, even the guys at petrol bunk were shocked. The ride felt rock hard and rear left tire developed a bulge. When I asked the dealer, he said that this helps to increase the intervals of refilling tire. He offered to buy back all tires & exchange them with Bridgestone tubeless' @ approx 80% discount to which I agreed.

You are lucky with your tubeless, mine required top up more frequently on air . Tyre guys said this happens when there are deformities in the Rim or tire bead. How can this be on all 4 tires?

Anyway, because the loss of pressure was not much after N2, I didn't bother.

Air contains Nitrogen in abundance, along with water vapour,Oxygen, CO2 and other gases. Nitrogen, Oxygen and CO2 may be more or less consistent but it is the water vapour which is chiefly responsible for the noticeable rise & fall of pressure in a hot & cold tire respectively, is what the tire websites tell me. I, being in Delhi with an extreme type of climate, find that the tires are 28-28.5 Psi at home and as I drive to the filling station(250-400m), it gets to 30+ and the machine actually deflates my tire. Then, the next morning, it is actually 27.XX Psi and as I go to the station, it gets to 29.XX. I filled 32Psi warm for a couple of days and then changed to N2.

If this 'joke played by nature' doesn't happen to you or your place has good 'Air', please don't waste time on N2 in tires, instead put N2O in engine if you need 'kicks'.

Cheers!
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