Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th November 2004, 12:58   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Inflating tyres with dry nitrogen

I would like to know if anyone has had the experience of filling dry nitrogen in their car tyres? The sales pitch says that dry nirtogen is a better choice as (a) nitrogen, having larger molecules, dissipates at a lower rate (than air) through the tube walls and (b) the lack of moisture in the nirogen keeps the tryres running cool.

Due to both, the trye pressure remains constant over larger periods (one needs to check pressure only after 6 months).

Any opinions would be welcome. Chennai has at least one such outlet.
akole is offline  
Old 6th November 2004, 22:04   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

nitrogen in tyres?

im hearing this for the first time...someone enlighten us.

Drifter
drifter is offline  
Old 7th November 2004, 03:57   #3
Team-BHP Support
 
Rehaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 22,381
Thanked: 22,612 Times
Default

Hi,

Well firstly, "Air" as we know it is aldready 78% nitrogen by volume.
(Oxygen accounting for the majority of the remaining 22%)

I guess the main advantage of nitrogen in tires is that it does not permeate through the tire as easily as the other gasses in air, hence you tire pressure doesnt drop as quickly as it might normally.
(This can be said to provide better milage, handling, treadware since tire pressure is more likely to be set right for a longer duration)

In addition to that, nitrogen doesnt combine with the metal rims or rubber tire easily. Which could be said to resist corrosion better. (Along with the fact that compress nitrogen wont contain as much water vapour).

Chances are that when you fill compressed nitrogen its actually 90-95% nitrogen, since making it pure 100% nitrogen would be a difficult and more expensive process.

I have never tried this, nor do i know anyone who has... but i see that it is becoming mainstream in some places, including the fact that some tire companies are researching and pushing this concept.

Hope that helps,
cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 9th May 2010 at 12:53. Reason: removing weird formatting
Rehaan is offline  
Old 13th July 2005, 22:19   #4
Team-BHP Support
 
Rudra Sen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,404
Thanked: 4,093 Times
Default

May be a point to discuss here. Has anybody tried nitrogen instead of air in tubeless tyre? I believe nitrogen doesn't expand or contract. One or two shops are pumping nitrogen in Bangalore.
Rudra Sen is offline  
Old 13th July 2005, 22:44   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

All gases will expand or contract. However, Nitrogen, being an inert gas, is less susceptible and volatile. Doesn't the Bridgestone performance club on Double Rd give it?

Anyone ever tried helium? Must be interesting!
v1p3r is offline  
Old 14th July 2005, 08:48   #6
BHPian
 
johnjacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bangalore, INDIA
Posts: 344
Thanked: 24 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudra Sen
May be a point to discuss here. Has anybody tried nitrogen instead of air in tubeless tyre? I believe nitrogen doesn't expand or contract. One or two shops are pumping nitrogen in Bangalore.
I saw the advert for this in a BSMotoring a month or two back. Anybody know how much it costs?

Apart from the Nitrogen per se, another advantage of these could be that the pressure gauges are accurate (since they are supposed to use imported equipment) so when you fill 32PSI you know you are getting 32PSI and not 30 or 34 PSI.
johnjacob is offline  
Old 14th July 2005, 10:03   #7
Team-BHP Support
 
Rtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 5,769
Thanked: 213 Times
Default

The real plus point of using Nitrogen would be the cooling efffect it has. Good for long distances at high speeds.
Rtech is offline  
Old 14th July 2005, 11:12   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
speedsatya's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: bangalore/manga
Posts: 3,161
Thanked: 706 Times
Default

but what do you do when you need to refill again an d that place doesnt have nitrogen
speedsatya is offline  
Old 14th July 2005, 11:40   #9
Team-BHP Support
 
Rtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 5,769
Thanked: 213 Times
Default

Fill regular air.

The nitrogen we talk about would not be pure nitrogen (I would guess). They probably mean that the Nitrogen % of the air they supply has been increased.
Rtech is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 14th July 2005, 12:16   #10
BHPian
 
johnjacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bangalore, INDIA
Posts: 344
Thanked: 24 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedsatya
but what do you do when you need to refill again an d that place doesnt have nitrogen
You don't have to fill Nitrogen each time! You can mix and match - there is no harm in that since regular air is also 79% nitrogen.
johnjacob is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 14th July 2005, 14:56   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
vivekiny2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai
Posts: 1,241
Thanked: 163 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech
The real plus point of using Nitrogen would be the cooling efffect it has. Good for long distances at high speeds.
I don't think a gas enclosed in a chamber can do any cooling. it's only liquid nitrogen when exposed to normal atmosphere gives the cooling effect (absorbing arrounding heat and expanding). plain heat chapters in high school explain that.
vivekiny2k is offline  
Old 14th July 2005, 15:27   #12
Team-BHP Support
 
Rtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 5,769
Thanked: 213 Times
Default

This should answer everyone's queries:


What is Nitrogen?
Colourless, odourless, tasteless, and non-toxic, Nitrogen exists as a non-flammable gas at atmospheric temperatures and pressures. It is one of the basic elements. Normal, compressed, air consists of approximately 78% nitrogen gas, with most of the remainder being made up of oxygen.

What effect can Nitrogen have on tyres?

Under ideal conditions, Nitrogen will run cooler than normal compressed air, will exhibit slower leakage, have no oxidation, and be virtually non combustible.

In particular circumstances, pure Nitrogen is used as the inflation medium in earthmover, racing, and aviation tyres to where they are required to perform under conditions of high stress and in critical environments, generating higher than usual temperatures. Examples are:

* Where exceptionally high loads are carried by the vehicle,
* High-speed travel,
* Where high pressure must be maintained.

Also, in some instances, the tyre casing wears better, and to some extent, tyre tread wears more slowly, when Nitrogen is used in these extreme circumstances.
How can Nitrigen affect on-road tyres?

Despite the advantages in specialised tyres subject to extreme conditions, the benefits of Nitrogen inflation for tyres used primarily on ordinary roads in standard driving conditions are not at all clear.

The main arguments put forward for its use of pure Nitrogen in tyres under normal conditions are:

a) Alleged Improved Tread Wear
Unfortunately, little controlled test data exists to support or refute this claim.

Improved tread wear comes from proper tyre maintenance, for example from:

* Checking your tyre inflation pressure at least once a month, and preferably fortnightly
* Regular rotation and
* Correct wheel alignment.

Take care of these, and your tyres will ride more safely and wear better, irrespective of the choice of inflation medium.

b) Casing Durability
When the tyre heats up, moisture in the tyre vaporises and expands. In some circumstances, moisture in the compressed air in a tyre can gradually migrates through the inner lining of a tubeless tyre and into the steel-cord body plies, resulting in rust, which ultimately causes casing degradation.

This applies to truck and bus, and some light truck tyres. Passenger and most light truck tyres are not affected, as they are composed instead of textile body ply material (eg polyester, nylon, rayon, etc).

One of the main claims made by Nitrogen proponents is that compressed Nitrogen contains less moisture than compressed air, thereby reducing the incidence of this moisture migration effect.

The primary aim should be to avoid moisture migration irrespective of the mix of gas used in tyre inflation. Moisture can be introduced into the tyre as a result of poor workshop practices and incorrect or inadequate tyre fitment procedures.

To this end, we encourage proper selection of compressor equipment, air-line routing, the use of air dryers, and other sound workshop and equipment maintenance practices in order to minimise moisture introduction.

This applies both to initial tyre inflation and top-up air.

Poor tyre fitment and workshop standards can also contribute to wheel and rim corrosion. If proper practices and equipment are utilised, moisture migration is minimised. It does not matter so much whether Nitrogen or compressed air is the inflation medium.

If you fill your tyres with Nitrogen, to retain any benefit, you will need to top up with Nitrogen as well. Topping up with Compressed air will negate any benefit.

When you first fill up your tyres, they already have air in them, so they really should be filled then evacuated, then filled again to remove the residual atmospheric air.

c) Susceptibility to Tyre Fires
Ever since the introduction of tubeless radial-ply tyres, the risks of tyre fires and/or self-ignition of tyres due to excessive heat have been rendered virtually nonexistent.

With tubeless radial-ply tyres, there is no 'tube and flap' which could cause friction and, therefore, heat to be generated.

It takes far higher temperatures to ignite steel radial truck and bus tyres, as compared with fabric-reinforced bias-ply tyres.

If properly maintained and used within legal tolerances, air-inflated passenger and light truck radial tyres will rarely, if ever, generate sufficient heat to self-ignite and burn, whether filled with Nitrogen or with ordinary compressed air.
Those motorists who choose to keep their tyres inflated with Nitrogen must bear in mind that Nitrogen inflation is NOT a 'set and forget' option. Regardless of the gas inflated into your tyres, to preserve their safety characteristics and longevity, you must check tyre pressure tyre and condition regularly.


Source: Bridgestone
Rtech is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 1st August 2005, 22:22   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
speedsatya's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: bangalore/manga
Posts: 3,161
Thanked: 706 Times
Default

read this



http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/...e/nitrogen.asp
speedsatya is offline  
Old 2nd August 2005, 00:09   #14
BHPian
 
Revvhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bombay
Posts: 450
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

Very F1!! All F1 cars run nitrogen in their tyres. also got to do with their even & lower co-eff of expansion if i'm not mistaken.
Not really gonna make a difference & be practical on a road car. except that you would pay a lot for it, as opposed to free air !!!
Revvhead is offline  
Old 2nd August 2005, 13:36   #15
BHPian
 
cheatingdeath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 275
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvhead
Very F1!! All F1 cars run nitrogen in their tyres. also got to do with their even & lower co-eff of expansion if i'm not mistaken.
Not really gonna make a difference & be practical on a road car. except that you would pay a lot for it, as opposed to free air !!!

cant be penny wise pound foolish
if i dont have to check my tyre pressure fer 6 months nothing like it ...... and as rehaan said... less tyre wear and stuff.. so iwill savin on tyre maintainence tooo....but the only thing bothering me is there not many outlets supplying us with it... so in case of a puncture or soo...it will really diffficult

they should do some more research and push this concept further..get it to the commaners
cheatingdeath is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Goodyear's Self Inflating Tyres carboy Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 1 26th September 2012 00:15
Inflating a tire with liquid fire Takumi-san Technical Stuff 6 28th September 2010 13:47
Nitrogen in car tyres ac 427 Technical Stuff 2 26th April 2007 15:46
Nitrogen filling in car tyres sn48001 Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 1 5th January 2007 14:47


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:28.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks