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View Poll Results: What handling setup do you prefer? - Understeer/Oversteer/Neutral
Slightly Understeery 12 17.14%
Slightly Oversteery 39 55.71%
Neutral 19 27.14%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10th October 2008, 23:51   #61
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I like the steering feel and precision in the Forester. It feels light at low speeds but tightens up and provides excellent feedback at speeds while remaining responsive to any slight input you give.
You dont need keep doing 'corrections' as you go along curves. AWD which is said to nullify both understeering and oversteering must be contributing to this precision.
I also like the way it soaks up road irregularities (including big pot holes) at the same time remaining flat during cornering.

Last edited by Guna : 10th October 2008 at 23:56.
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Old 11th October 2008, 01:12   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG
Oversteer and understeer or the lack of it has little meaning if the suspension is simply not setup to handle the forces a car encounters while cornering
Can you elaborate ??
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Old 11th October 2008, 09:38   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Can you elaborate ??
Unless the suspension setup is optimised for cornering the overall perceived benefits of oversteer or understeer are compromised. To enjoy the distinct feel of a car that either has oversteer dialled into its steering setup, or understeer, the suspension must allow for flat cornering. When the two happen together its distinctly pleasurable. A car that wallows or rolls heavily into corners can scare the hell out of you rendering the steering setup meaningless.

In practical situations its understeer which is safer as it gives the user time to correct. Whereas a car with oversteer can scare the hell out of you as the rear end comes swinging out. Now imagine if the suspension setup is weak, this can make your heart jump out of your throat!

Last edited by DKG : 11th October 2008 at 09:48.
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Old 11th October 2008, 12:06   #64
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Default Topic is Handling

OT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG
has oversteer dialled into its steering setup,
I think you need to get your basics right about oversteer and understeer. Its got everything to do with suspension setup.
Quote:
A car that wallows or rolls heavily into corners can scare the hell out of you rendering the steering setup meaningless.
Here we're talking about handling which means zero bodyroll,
Also, why is 'steering setup' coming in here again unless its a competition car with a higher steering ratio?
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Old 11th October 2008, 14:47   #65
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Nitrous suggest you get your facts right before commenting about others getting theirs right.

The suspension setup in a car is fixed and you cannot control that element while driving. Likewise, tire grip and weight transfer that takes place in cornering is something you cannot do anything about unless you use the following:

Steering
Brakes
Engine power

When faced with an understeer or oversteering situation the first element you use is the steering. You obviously don't know that the latest in steering technology is using electronics to first determining whether a car is understeering or oversteering, then a signal from your steering inputs goes to a controller which determines the degree of steering assist required to correct the situation. That's what you call steering setup and this is a critical safety element that modern cars are developing.

Perhaps you don't know but using the steering, brakes, and/or engine power you can make a car oversteer/understeer at will. And by the way its not just suspension that has to do with under/oversteer its also the aerodynamics of the car, the ability of the tyres to grip and the weight transfer characteristics of the car. Steering setup is one element mfgs are looking at to handle the oversteer/understeer characteristics in different situations

The natural tendency of a car to under/over steer in situations is something that is affected by way too many factors. To counter it modern automotive design is looking at active steering systems.

Last edited by DKG : 11th October 2008 at 14:59.
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Old 11th October 2008, 15:35   #66
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Before we get sidetracked from the original discussion about whether oversteer or understeer and neutrality are the only three factors affecting handling my initial response was no. The other factors that affect handling are

1. Body roll

2. Weight transfer characteristics

3. Behaviour of the car on different road surfaces, here unsprung weight and other issues like chassis flex play a role

4. Last but not the least the Driver

The combined effect of all these, with the aspect of over/under steer affects the handling of the car.

Anyone slightly familiar with car design aspects will know that optimising handling compromises ride quality and comfort. So this whole game of an optimal setup is complex and most mfgs opt to dial in understeer as its safer. A car with a tendency to oversteer can surprise the wits out of an unsuspecting driver.

Last edited by DKG : 11th October 2008 at 15:41.
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Old 11th October 2008, 17:10   #67
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For me:-
1.RWD
2.Tail hanging out in corners and counter steer or drift out of it!

Ah! Just wish i had a RWD.
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Old 11th October 2008, 20:37   #68
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For me it depends on the driving mood - generaly it is a bit of oversteer; but at times do some lazy driving then it is understeer!
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Old 11th October 2008, 21:25   #69
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under steering + RWD.
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Old 12th October 2008, 15:35   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gendarmee View Post
under steering + RWD.
But Why? Or maybe "+ LOADs of torque" should have been added too.
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Old 13th October 2008, 09:54   #71
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As a matter of interest to those wondering why I referred to steering setup when it came to oversteer/understeer found an article in Wikipedia under Understeer subject which clearly explains how steering ratios affect this aspect. The higher the ratio the more the understeer and, obviously, the lower the ratio the more the oversteer. Manufacturers invariably tweak steering ratios to counter the natural bias a car develops as a result of its many aspects that either cause understeer or oversteer.

The problem faced though is that steering ratios are traditionally fixed. But behaviour of the car varies and sometimes a vehicle can experience either understeer or oversteer depending on the conditions that may cause either the front or the rear wheel sets to slip.

BMW is one of the first to use what is called active steering systems. They use a electronic steering by wire device. When a driver turns the steering, a signal reaches a controller which in turn measures the degree of yaw or spinning that the car is experiencing through yaw sensors. This tells the controller if the car is experiencing oversteer or understeer. It then activates a motor which gives varied assist to the steering rack so that the over/understeer is corrected. The end result is like a variable gear ratio steering. Coupled with traction control this enables a car to remain neutrally poised in most situations
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Old 24th October 2008, 12:20   #72
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understeer and rear wheel drive. simple
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