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Old 5th May 2016, 19:15   #31
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
@james aka Zahin Aranha - Well you have said all that you wanted to in your own right. Appreciate your efforts in coming out in the open and talking. Whatever you felt is right in your own accord! I will put forth my version in due course.
@others - I have been a part of the automobile forums and I know a lot of them here. Some who pat your back when you do well and the same who spat when things went "wrong". In this case, the client has expressed his opinion. Whatever is right or.....ut even after responding to queries and attending to minor hiccups the blame game is still on. I dont know what to say!

Disclaimer: I do not personally know any of the parties involved.

Few question which popped out after reading your explanations, no offence intended, only intention is to understand the scenerio in a better way:

1. If you knew that the parts which OP had brought were not worth it and it was impossible to build a reliable car with those, why did not you put down your foot? (OP has clearly mentioned that he was looking forward to a reliable machine after the rebuild)?
2. Failing parts is one thing and sub-standard job work is another. If we go by the pictures, things do not look good.
3. As mentioned by you, OP threatened to tow away the car, you should have let him, not sure why you continued with the build if you knew it is going to fail?
4. No matter how so ever was the product coming up, some one who has left his property with you deserves a call back at the least.

Last edited by Engine_Roars : 5th May 2016 at 19:18. Reason: Edit: Please ignore those question which you have already clarified in the above reply. We both posted at the same time.
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Old 5th May 2016, 19:20   #32
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

For most of us, ncie powerful cars are out of our reach. Or if its powerful, its got some feature that we cannot live with. For example, if love a nice german with 250+ horses but I cant afford it and even if I could, id shy away from it since its not a stick shift. These are little things in us that we cannot explain.
There is a certain kick you get from modding a car. Again, its hard to explain. These cars end up as money pits but they can put a silly smile on your face. I did not want to let go of my baleno. It is my first car and only car. I loved the seating and the handling(with Koniís). I just wanted a more powerful engine. So I modded it. I got a kick allright. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by noo.b View Post
I first heard of Joel through xbhp when i used to be an active member there and almost everyone spoke exceptionally highly of his builds, the bike he worked most often on was the R15 and I actually went and bought one to later have it modded by him.
I still do not understand how an increase of 20cc over stock can give you such a power gain. Yet he manages to sell so many kits. I donít have much to say about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Having burned money at the hands of a supposed "expert" myself (although mine was a walk in the park compared to yours ) I would say the best way to go fast in a car would be to buy a fast car from the start. With the knowledge you got I bet you could get around most niggles put out by a second hand vrs or an accord v6.
Thanks for sharing the experience though, another one added to the BUYER BEWARE shops list.
I would have loved either one of these cars. But good examples are hard to come by. That said, ive missed out on a good VRS deal once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjeevgpc View Post
One thing to learn here is that never get any work done anywhere without proper documentation and agreement. This also avoids confusion later.
I donít think any tuners will be comfortable with this. They know they can get into trouble. There are more customers out there than tuners. Tuners know they will still get customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear James - hello to you.
Thank you for pitching in, Mr. Dhabhar. Iím a big fan of you and your LHD Fiat from KL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93 View Post
Well I am not surprised with the quality of parts used. Something similar had happened with the Fz's Joel had modified. I was in touch with a few people from Mumbai and pune who had got the parts from him and to my surprise not even a single bike stayed reliable(fz18 xbhp thread speaks a lot)
I personally feel one should avoid tuners and catch hold a knowledgable & reliable mechanic or work on their vehicles themselves. I may be wrong as I really don't know beyond bike mods or car remaps. But a turbo build is a difficult job and it should be done with utmost care. And frankly 150whp wasn't any big expectation. Feel sad for the car as it has to go through all this.
Asit, im an out and out bike guy but I do enjoy my car. I have a look at the thread you mentioned. Too many pages to go through now but ill surely read through it someday.
A tuner with sound knowledge, skill and a willingness to work ethically is way better than a local mechanic. The knowledge a local mechanic has would be limited to the bikes he has worked on and that too basic stuff. Im not going to generalize as ive seen some wizard mechs in my own town. I wish you all the best with your bike build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungSaint View Post
Thanks for putting up this post as one of the motives of this community is to let other like-minded people know about your experiences - whether good or bad. .
Thank you for going through the entire writeup. It was quite a long boring one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schakravarthy View Post
Reading only the happy-happy stories and the numerous recommendations, even I was under the illusion that Joel was a go-to guy for the mods!
These are the lines I thought on 2 yrs ago, srini. I thought he was the go-to guy. The guy builds super car beating Hondas. He obviously knows his stuff! I just realized a bit late that reliability is never in the equation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Hello James, it really takes guts to admit their own mistake; and it takes even more courage to admit to public; that way...hats off to you
Thank you. Yes, I was naÔve and stupid. I had blind faith in people an that put me in a very tight spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
Oh sh*t!
You have been Joeled eh!
Hindsight is 20/20. After all those threads on the "dreams" forum from this said expert, all I can say is, "you shouldn't have bro!".

But I know you being you, will only learn and build that dream baleno.. keep that chin up and build it yourself, just to prove. it will be sweet!

Cheers!
You sound very familiar but I cant place you. That style of writing. We have interacted before somewhere outta RDD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
James, you have manipulated enough and started creating jokes about our work for a while now. We have substantial proof to show how your manipulation is being framed.
You got us Chinese parts and a turbo for your build. More on this later!
Joel, I have just stated the facts. Called a spade a spade but gave credit where its due.
I have already written clearly about the Chinese stuff in the build. You can go ahead and tell your side of the story. As mentioned before, I have cut my losses and moved on. I Donít want anything from you nor do I wish bad for you. Im just telling the world about my experience with RC. Im over everything apart from the fact that your nylon braided hose almost costed me my engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SatsMumbai View Post
I can relate it to some extent with all the audio builds, smaller performance enhancements in the car and number of days it takes with minimal returns.
I did not know the ICE scene was as bad as the tuning scene. Unfortunately all tuners get a bad name due to couple of rotten apples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnS_12 View Post
Looks like Race Concepts and Joel have their hands full and are not able to give the attention each and every customer deserves. This would explain the jugaad work done on your car, or, maybe that's how they do mods on each customers car.
Yes, I feel he takes on too many builds at one time. Im not the only one who waited months after the promised delivery date. There is one more forum member that I know off who has waited long. And his was a clean fresh build!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpian View Post
Years back i was taken for a mini ride by the so called tuners of the fastest Vtec in Bangalore.I stopped right there after driving all the way for 600 plus kilometres to be taken for a ride.!
Im glad you made a decision that you are happy with. That said, not all tuners are bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiran77 View Post

While Everybody here is trying to pull down Joel. I do not see anyone talking about his positive builds
After the head work, the car simply flies all the way to the redline with phenomenal improvement in torque! Dyno results show me the same.

Also, I had valve cover leak issues which were fixed during the cylinder head work. Car runs cooler (earlier used to heat up a bit due to the age factor)
Thank you for posting up, Hiran. I maintain that Joel has the brains and ability to be a good tuner. However, I find him to be highly unethical.
Any petrol car with higher compression, a freer flowing exhaust and a filter would be very responsive. Add to that a good cam and a piggyback and you would have a stonker of a car.
How weak was the old head gasket? Just asking as you said the heating reduced after the headwork.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KALINGA View Post
James has stated that the Chinese turbo procured from Joel's friend . whats going on guys.
The turbo was from a mutual friend who has nothing to do with this. He has been quite supportive wherever possible.

Cheers!
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Old 5th May 2016, 20:33   #33
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

First off let me introduce myself, I'm Anoop and I've gotten my Civic turbocharged by Joel from RaceConcepts one & a half years ago roughly. Also I have compiled a separate thread regarding the build. I marshal at a rallies occasionally, I've networked with a handful of tuners, FMSCI officials and other big wigs in the sports scene.

I'm just taken aback with all the posts I saw on this particular thread. James has had his story to tell with pictures backing his "claims" and I see people jumping at the opportunity to call someone a fraud and the likes. Come on, I though it was common sense not to jump to conclusions without understanding the whole picture. Atleast have the patience and willingness to get exposed to the whole story before you publicly start calling out names. We are all adults here aren't we?

Reliability

What exactly does one expect from a custom turbo build man? Do you expect your car to have "Japanese reliability" from a build where you cost cut (using toned down words to be civil) with Chinese parts, small budget and clear cut guidelines for the tuner?

If yes, boy you're in the wrong hobby. Since all of us here are freely typing without holding back let me be one of the crowd. If you want to turbo your car-

*Don't cheap out on car parts and expect it to be "reliable"
*Don't experiment on your own and tune your cars yourself (Yea people do that)
*Don't have a fixed timeline: There are number of factors why your build will get late. Out of experience let me lay it down for you.

1. He's not working on your car only. There are many other clients such as yourself who are all in a damn hurry.
2. There are fixed race schedules that are frankly more important than street builds. That's where you hone your skills as a tuner and apply it to your street builds.
3. Ordering parts from abroad and getting it cleared with customs is no joke. Small little things like a smartwatch I've had numerous delays and frustrating calls. So automobile parts are no joke.
4. The tuner has his own personal life to attend to. I've seen this guy work his behind off until 10 in the night when he has way more important things to attend to at home. He didn't budge because there was my car and 2 other cars to be tuned for a drag event the next day. He comes at 11 everyday and stays until late night. Cut him some slack man, I've seen tuners designate the work to their employees and head out for a drink. Easy to point a few instances and post it for people to get judgemental about one's work ethics. If you really want utmost care and attention to your car please take your car to a guy who's had good knowledge about the tuning scene but is relatively new at building turbo cars.. You'll have another set of issues there as well.. Which is totally normal..

I'm not saying you got to forget the car for a year or whatever.. Just be prepared for delays.. Merclover's car is in the workshop, it's taken months as well but the amount of upgrades it's getting is phenomenal.. It takes time, if you don't have the patience please don't turbo your car. Get a FFE or some basic stuff and expect it to be done in a few days.

*Prepare yourself for some small disappointments and visits to the workshops

Companies pour millions into R&D and still do recalls. How can you expect a custom builds to be reliable? Show me a tuner who's built a turbo's car thats run without any hiccups at all..

So please be prepared for all this before you decide to spend your hard earned money to turbo your car. And if you do decide to turbo your car, then don't spoil it for others by nitpicking on such basic stuff and call out names.. It's a part of the build, accept it..

I've had my fair share of all of the above and I'm just laying it out frankly so others know..

Coming to my car, the reason I don't keep updating my thread is I haven't had any phenomenal upgrades to the car.. YES I've had issues with the car, I knew what I was getting into.. But the issues were never major.. Let me type out the things I remember..

- Engine mount malfunctioned: Joel replaced it, many 2007 Civic owners have experienced the same.

- Exhaust manifold seal or whatever you call it was loose and exhaust gas was leaking hence there was loss in power: Sorted in 30 minutes at his garage.

- AFR was going crazy: I was a cheapass and chose a piggyback because the standalone was double the price.

- BOV stopped functioning: Joel swapped it for me.. For free, I was there when he swapped so I can safely say he didn't con me

- The piggyback failed, dumped fuel in the cylinder, car stalled. Towed it to his workshop, he made sure I only paid the difference amount to the standalone ECU.. Didn't pay extra for tuning, didn't loose a buck.. Had I not cheaped out in the first place I would't have even lost the towing charges.

- Yes Joel doesn't attend calls sometimes: He busy working on cars, get the manager's number instead.. He'll make it a point to get in touch with you as soon as he can.. I've gotten frustrated as well but when I spent time at his workshop I'd do the same.. Everyone wants their cars done quickly and also wants him to attend calls at the same time.. It's not practically possible to be frank.

- Performance brake pads faded, had to wait a month for new ones: Thank you customs officials.

If I'd just stop my post here, it's easy to steer people off the turbocharging scene.. Do bear with me further..


What have I gotten out of the tubobuild?

* I've been the happiest ever when I'm on the streets.. Like I've mentioned in my thread the shameless grin that get slapped on your face is insane.

* I get too used to the power and get bored (which I do with everything) I just drop by and he loads a new map and it's a whole new experience.

* I participated in the Jakkur drag recently and boy it was the best thing I've done in a long time.. Joel got his whole crew over, we had mech support, you want your seats removed-done, want drag slicks-done. And how much did I pay him for all this? Nothing..

* I daily my car as well, I can drive it like a stock car at crawling city speeds at low rpms in higher gears.. Downshift and throttle, it then it's a different beast..

* There is NOTHING that I regret about my association with RaceConcepts.. Like I mentioned before I've met quite a few people in the industry and I stand by this guy..

To summarize it all, it's easy to mention a few bad things about a build that was limited to certain factors.. There's only so much one can do when you're hands are tied up.. Also, if you want an implant done and expect it to feel like the natural thing then sir your expectations are too high.. For the rest of you enthusiasts out there please take your time out behind computer screens and attend events and network with different tuners in the industry to know how it is..

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and here was mine.. I apologize if i was offensive but it is required for some to understand the reality of things.. If you don't want to compromise on the headache please go for a factory tuned performance car.. Frankly that experience is brilliant as well, but only expensive..
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Old 5th May 2016, 20:34   #34
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@james Sorry for your loss. I know how it feels to be in that position. Am very happy that you opened a thread and documented it
BTW, am no expert, i don't know anything in-depth about turbos and other stuffs. But was an active member in xbhp and i know a friend of mine who fell for this trap. He used to praise a lot about RaceConcepts mod in his R15 and at one stage even i became jealous. But i knew very well, nothing comes closer to stock in germs of reliability which stopped me from doing all these mods. Now as time moves forward, problems start to arise with starter motor burning in a signal surrounded by traffic. He blamed yamaha for that and then suddenly Motul 300v oil turns into Tar like substance and then 2 piston replacement and finally bike was torn apart and sold. This was never documented anywhere. Only the performance he extracted from the mod was documented which would lead many uninformed people to fall for this. We investigated a little bit and even with my very limited knowledge i could tell that the pistons were of very bad quality. The finish were terrible and the cylinders are imported factory rejected cylinders on which SS sleeves were installed which is no match for the Stock Diasil cylinders.

Now,this thread being an eye opener here in TeamBhp, i hope people stay away from these kits. And this is where i really wish to be in foreign countries where mods are carried out with extreme care as if its their own car. Being in India,just get the best what the factory offers. When you fell hungry for more power, sell and buy a more powerful one instead of trying these which would end up costlier and spending sleepless nights

PS: i have no personal experience nor vengeance on RaceConcepts. Just documented whatever i saw on my friends bike.
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Old 5th May 2016, 20:43   #35
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
I will put forth my version in due course.
By all means, please do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
All we can say is that, the car in question came to us over 2 years ago with the owner bringing his own parts from wherever that he sourced. We did as per his orders.
I don’t think I held a gun to your head. You could have said no if you really had so much apprehension bout the build I had proposed


Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
A rubber hose and an aluminium gasket is being the topic of discussion . We built the owner the right car the way he wanted. With the parts he gave and with the last minute deadline that was set to us.
Errrr..did you go through the entire post? Did you somehow miss the oil feed line part? Yep, I gave you a few parts and I mentioned it here. Last minute deadline? I have mentioned dates clearly incase you want to pull out a calendar and calculate. It took you uptill Sept 19th to realize the turbo isn’t gonna work on this car?


Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Zahin handed over the car to us with a chinese turbo and a host of chinese parts, including a BOV, used RD piggy back, boost gauge etc.
Already mentioned this in one of the initial paragraphs. The piggyback was unused. The used on was cheaper and I decided not to pick it up. I trust our mutual friend more than I trust you, sir. Get your facts right. I gave you the BOV? In that case, can I please get the 10.8k you charged me for the HKS BOV? Please refer to SI.#1 on the excel sheet attached to the final payment email you had sent me. The amount that I cleared the very same day without haggling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
The car was already an NA build with a shaved head, cam, intake, exhaust etc and some piggy back ECU by another tuner. We clearly mentioned that we "will only install the parts and take no responsibility of the build" since the build was never as per my choice. Simply put the turbo was an IHI replica of an oversize blower for a Mitsu Evo. Way above the limit for a 1600cc 90hp baleno with stock internals. Then we were asked to "make to fit" into the engine bay with the completely bizarre exhaust manifold and even use an NA cam for a turbo build.
I already mentioned it was stage 2. And I would like to make a note here on how you made me believe the previous tuner screwed up so many things. Ive already mentioned the parts I landed up to your place with and ive already mentioned the surprise on your face when you finally saw the parts you told me I could pick up. So a NA cam would made a turbo car run like crap? Is that why we got such output and smooth functioning on the dyno?



Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
The cylinder head was replaced with a stock one and worked on from scratch. We had to go through unwanted trouble to"make fit" parts that were not technically right. Zahin insisted we did so. I repeated myself that the turbo and rest wont work.
Again, I insisted? I made a reputed tuner take on a build that he knew would be doomed from day one? You think people wont see through you, joel? People wont understand whats happening? Why again was I made to get a new head and mod it for such a princely sum? You dropped compression by 5psi which you could have easily countered with an adjustable cam pulley and cleaning all the carbon deposits in the CC that were the result of a failing piggyback?


Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
The folks at RD took nearly 5 weeks to return the car (which is blamed on us) which the owner was very much aware and was in touch with employees at RD directly. The car too long to get wired since the previous piggyback module was a task to remove with wires butchered everywhere.
3.5 weeks? And yes, I was in touch with the folks at RD. So how did a 3.5 week delay at RD cause you to delay the build? And what in those 3.5 weeks motivated you to use substandard parts?


Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
boost spiking dangerously over 1 bar on a stock engine with the chinese wastegate being of not much help to control the boost with the softest boost rated spring.
Chinese wastegate? The wastegate was Chinese? Im sure its one of the parts I gave you, right? If so, please refer to SI.#2 on the excel sheet attached to the final payment email you had sent me labeled ‘Wastegate 38mm’. Can I have my 12k back? I seemed to have paid you for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
A few days later we got our hands on a replica GT25 with a Honda ebay manifold with a hand cut flange. Zahin gave us a few days to finish the car with the new turbo setup, new plumbing, new downpipe and stuffs when again the work was not to my taste. The honda manifold flange was cut and replaced with a Baleno flange (which was clearly reported to Zahin that it was a make-shift) and he wanted the car to be finished in any case or threatend to tow away.
GT25 replica? The CHRA was smaller than a gt25 CHRA. I confirmed it. I was told that you will make a new header. So you sold me a ebay header for 13k? Regarding the flange being badly cut and Honda spec, I mentioned it already. It was for the 1st header that I gave you. I had no idea what happened with the 2nd header. I was under the impression that you built it. Mid September to mid October makes a few days? Why didn’t you let me tow the car away? Why all the drama? Do you recall how you made me sit at RD for so long without even answering calls and msgs? Or is that a done thing in bangalore?




Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Didnt hear from him for over a year. In Aug 2015, I got a few calls on my phone during the round 5 of our National series while I Chennai. I sent a message. Once picked the call and told him I'm busy. Got back to bangalore and spoke to him for over 35 mins. Zahin explained that he had a broken hose and a ripped exhaust gasket flange.
I have already mentioned that I hadn’t used the car much. Only if you clock a lotta miles, the shoddy workmanship will show up. Mine took a bit longer, that’s all. Did you call me or did I call you? And I also mentioned in the initial post that you were at a race and you said you’ll call back but didn’t disconnect the call. I disconnected it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Well every tuned car needs maintenace. We have seen the factory garrett 3 layered turbo gasket puncture with useage and boost pressure. My team of mechs and fabricators have come a long way since 2013 and 2014. Its 2016 now and we have a class leading fabrication team now. I explained to Zahin clearly that it not an issue and he can have all the work done for FREE and all he has to do is bring down the car. That conversation was on Aug 27th at 2.30 pm. He obliged and said he will try.
All machines need maintenance, period! However, you don’t expect things to pop so quickly. Whats the reason you used an inhouse gasket while you could have got a brass one from any automobile store? The brass one I installed is still doing its job well. After seeing so much jugaad with my own eyes, you think I would really bring the car back to you? And you think its cheap transporting a car 400kms? You should know the costs involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Thats it I havent heard from him after that except for a christmas greeting on 25th Dec 2015. And now this. I beg to understand how difficult it is for someone to ask for help if there is any trouble. And I have been watching how Zahin has been posting elsewhere on social media etc about how his car went wrong since a few weeks. The last conversation was 9 months ago and where was he for 9 months?
Its very easy to make the tuning community look bad. Its one thing if someone really messed with a car or build and never showed any responsibility of the happenings, but even after responding to queries and attending to minor hiccups the blame game is still on. I dont know what to say!
I never intended on getting back to you for anything. I just cut my losses and went back to my life trying to sort out my car. You tell me this. If you go to a shop to buy some stuff and the counter staff keep ignoring you, don’t care for your gestures or ‘excuse me’, will you still hang out there and make a fool of yourself? Or will you just quietly move on? Or make some noise, get everyones attention and finally have to leave.
Your arrogance and the way you are taking gullible clients for a ride made me make up my mind to tell the world about my experience with race concepts. If I can save even one auto enthuiast from going down the same route I did, ill be happy. The xmas wish was sent you you in error. I have many contacts by the name of joel. Anyway, i hope you had a merry xmas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Zahin had picked up the parts from Binz (Binoy) all of which was on sale on tbhp
Binoy is the mutual friend I was referring to. I wanted to keep him out of this as he has been quite supportive. As I said earlier, I have more faith in Binoy than some others!
Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
He felt his engine might blow since the oil was leaking! So whats the fuss about, that his makeshift manifold and parts are not looking good and we put an 1.2mm Aluminium gasket and a hydraulic hose for the return and main line.
Did you seriously just say that? Engine MIGHT blow because oil was LEAKING? You are so cool about this? Oil was gushing straight outta the substandard oil feed line you had installed. You are so cool about someone losing their engine due to oil starvation thanks to your substandard job? Is this also why you use motorcycle oil in cars? Motul 7100 with motorcycle oil written clearly on it. And if you missed that, there was a pic of a bike on it too. When I asked, you said it’s the same oil. You, sir, have lost the plot!! Im appalled!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
We blocked off the water line since the replica turbo's journal shaft was looking too fragile to leak water into
Was it so hard for you to tell me this when I asked if the water lines are hooked up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
we have technically come a long way since 2014 with our builds and we are 4 years in the business with cars
So you used customers cars as guinea pigs to work on and constantly improve your technical skills?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
First off let me introduce myself, I'm Anoop and I've gotten my Civic turbocharged by Joel from RaceConcepts one & a half years ago roughly
Hi Anoop, im glad your car is running well and you have had pleasant experiences with Race concept. I wish you many happy miles.. I don't see a mention of your broken headers that left you stranded. Wait i have a video of that somewhere. There was a nice long crank in the header. Was it because the turbo was too heavy? was it braced? I'm asking as i'm curious to know what caused it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sid93 View Post
Sorry for your loss. .
No loss, not gain, Sid. I lost money but gained a lotta knowledge and experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sid93 View Post
i know a friend of mine who fell for this trap.
Im sorry to hear what your friend went through. It can be heart breaking to see your hard earned bike go down the drain like that. It just hurts!


Cheers!!

Last edited by james : 5th May 2016 at 20:59. Reason: Replied to blahman & Sid
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Old 5th May 2016, 20:53   #36
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

I have been silently following the thread and replies from Mr Fieroid made me reply here or else I would have been a silent reader as usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
You got us Chinese parts and a turbo for your build. More on this later!
+

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
All we can say is that, the car in question came to us over 2 years ago with the owner bringing his own parts from wherever that he sourced. We did as per his orders.
POINT 1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by james View Post
...At that time, a mutual friend put up a china t3/t04 turbo, manifold and some other stuff for sale. I called up Joel and discussed the parts. He told me that the stuff would work well and I can pick them up.
Can I see any connection to your reply and what is posted as it is you who agreed that the said Chinese parts would work in the Baleno. It was after your consent Mr James transferred the money to buy them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
I clearly told Zahin that its not to my taste and its ONLY going to be an INSTALL since he insisted us to carry out the work.
If it ain't to your taste, you shouldn't have accepted it. You have a name, you have a brand and you know what you do and how you do. So if James and his car with all the parts weren't to your liking why accept the job in the first place? Why repent now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
A really cheap build. I wonder why I agreed to take up the build.
Had you thought about this on the day Mr James had come to you with the car, this thread wouldn't have existed.


__________________________________________________ ____

POINT 3:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Zahin handed over the car to us with a chinese turbo and a host of chinese parts, including a BOV, used RD piggy back, boost gauge etc.
Weren't the intercooler, Blow-off valve purchased by you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by james View Post
...I wired him some 50k to pick up stuff like the Wastegate, Intercooler, BOV etc.
__________________________________________________ __________

POINT 4:

Quote:
Originally Posted by james View Post
...We exchange pleasantries and I start pulling the stuff outta the boot. One look at the manifold and he is left speechless. He says dude, its too big and doesnít look like a Suzuki flange. I told him he told me to buy it. He said he will work with it and do his magic but was clear that the pipes were too large in dia. Then came out the turbo- Too big, he said. He clearly gave me the go-ahead to pickup the stuff and since the seller was his friend, im sure he knew exactly what parts are on sale.
Since it was a mutual friend in question, didn't you know what the parts were and would they genuinely work on the Baleno as wanted? Why were you surprised when the parts were being unloaded from the boot?
__________________________________________________ __________

Quote:
Originally Posted by james View Post
...I kept thinking about it over the night and called up Joel the next morning. The plan was to revert to stage 2 and pull out everything he put in and return the car in 2 days. I was all set to swap it for the vRS. Well, he convinced me against it saying its a minor setback and can be overcome. He just needs a few days more. He sounded so convincing that I agreed to it.
This was another golden opportunity for you Fieroid to say a No and sett;e matters here rather than dragging it. James wanted the car back to stock so that he could sell it and get a vRS. But you made him sound confident that the car (Read Baleno) would be back on track and as promised during the start.

__________________________________________________ _____________


Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
Simply put the turbo was an IHI replica of an oversize blower for a Mitsu Evo. Way above the limit for a 1600cc 90hp baleno with stock internals. Then we were asked to "make to fit" into the engine bay with the completely bizarre exhaust manifold and even use an NA cam for a turbo build.
Look below Fieroid:

Quote:
Originally Posted by james View Post
Joel tells me he has an IHI twin scroll turbo from an EVO he worked on recently.
Surprising? Eh?!

__________________________________________________ ___________

Quote:
Originally Posted by james View Post
The turbo didnít look like the IHI turbo from the EVO. I asked him and he said it was too big and this journal bearing oil and water cooled gt25 replica is a perfect turbo for my car. I confirmed if the water lines are hooked up and working and he replied ďya duuude, liquid diet and everythingí. I later found out that the IHI turbo was sold to a tbhpian with a well known modded car.
How did the IHI one suddenly become BIG for the car and why did it change to GT25 replica? Why wasn't this replica suggested earlier during the discussion?

PS: No offence Mr Fieroid. I am not finding it in correlation to your responses here with what Mr James has posted. I am not sure if James has twisted facts and presented them here to gain sympathy and momentum. If he had, it would have been opposed by you with facts in reality. But I find no hard facts that support you data. I am not blaming the tuner world or anyone here. It is just that I feel something is a-miss!!
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Old 5th May 2016, 21:03   #37
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by blahman View Post
2. There are fixed race schedules that are frankly more important than street builds.
What the hell did I just read?


Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
small budget
3L is a "small" budget? Does the tuner accept pesos?

Last edited by yzfrj : 5th May 2016 at 21:14.
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Old 5th May 2016, 21:10   #38
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by james View Post
Thank you. Yes, I was naÔve and stupid. I had blind faith in people an that put me in a very tight spot
There're 3 characters that I remember when you say this; one of course is me, who admits the mistake just like you do. The other guy who said exactly like us went on to learn a lot so much that, he not only fixed all the issues that was made at tooner workshop, but eventually realized that souping & stuffs require a lifetime dedication which he cannot & landed up buying a more powerful motorcycle.

The other one, eventually bought powerful motorcycle, but didn't have guts to accept his mistake & guess what...he didn't learn either

Anyway, I'm very positive that same old issues & experiences are resurfacing but for car instead of motorcycles this time.

Leave all those behind, I'm sure you're not only going to excel in this area, but also shine in others as well because once bitten twice shy!
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Old 5th May 2016, 21:19   #39
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Apologies- In my earlier post #35, i mentioned brass gaskets in error. I meant to say copper gasket.
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Old 5th May 2016, 21:25   #40
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Not commenting on the technical aspects of the build again as I have no specific expertise there, but some of the pictures are testament to a lack of 'professional' approach to work even with bare basics. What 'professional' would get something as basic as a connecting hose's length wrong? Even my much-maligned Hyundai A.S.S. took care of cutting a replacement radiator hose to size before install because the one in stock was a few centimeters too long.

The lack of proper documentation at a supposed 'professional' setup is surprising, to put it mildly. Without the need or intent to accuse anyone of anything, the claims reg. parts & work done don't match the invoice provided to the customer.

What are we missing?


P.S. No offence to a couple of other posters, but I find the whole bunch of arguments "Don't expect reliability from non-OEM builds", "A 3 lakh budget is cheap-skating", "The tuner is too busy to bother talking to you", "Yours isn't the only job he has" and "There are other more important things on his mind" too absurd to argue with.

If a paying customer isn't important enough, just tell him so BEFORE you take him on, not AFTER. Fair enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
......stop assuming things.. It looks embarrsingly bad when your'e a casual observer of this thread..
And you Sir would do well to take your own advice. Extending your own line of argument that an entire profession shouldn't be maligned because someone had a bad experience, the same profession shouldn't be immune to critique because someone had a good one.

Your build went well, you're entitled to be satisfied. The OP's didn't after spending a not-so-cheap six-figure sum, so he's entitled to complain as long as he can back up his claims with evidence. He seems to have done that so far, and Joel is free to present his side too so the 'ill-informed' here may form a more informed opinion.

P.S. I'd love to meet the wrench-wielding monkeys that can install bolt-on kits. People must be crazy to pay through their noses for stuff like that when we can have one of our evolutionary ancestors do it for free on a weekend!

P.P.S. Doesn't our very own professional tuner in discussion here sell bolt-on kits for bikes? You may want to reconsider the wrench-wielding monkeys bit.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 5th May 2016 at 21:51.
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Old 5th May 2016, 21:38   #41
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by james View Post

Hi Anoop, im glad your car is running well and you have had pleasant experiences with Race concept. I wish you many happy miles.. I don't see a mention of your broken headers that left you stranded. Wait i have a video of that somewhere. There was a nice long crank in the header. Was it because the turbo was too heavy? was it braced? I'm asking as i'm curious to know what caused it.
It was because of the broken engine mount. I don't remember getting stranded anywhere, I remember the whole A-pillar shaking and there was loss in power.. The video you supposedly have might show the same? Maybe the certain someone who told you made it look worse than what it was so that he could join the "Joel hating club" and gel along?

Alright you've had a bad experience because of collective efforts put into the car by the previous guy and Joel.. Like I mentioned earlier maybe it was because the constraints didn't allow it to be done the right way.. As an outsider passing through this thread I see a lot of mudslinging not just on one tuner but the whole tuning scene.. I'd get turned off towards modifying my car on the whole. Such an irony for the website, and some are advising you to go legal?! Let's think about it for a second, all the things you and I and many more have gotten done to their cars are illegal in the first place. Can someone imagine the storm one might start and spoil the whole industry just because you followed someone's "advice" on an internet portal?

This whole thread got changed from one guy talking about his turbobuild to people letting their frustration out on the whole mod scene. People say tuners in foreign country work on cars as if it's their own?! Have they got their cars done by them or is it just hear say? Or was it a custom job or a readily available bolt-on kit (which any monkey with a wrench can install).

Seriously guys, stop assuming things.. It looks embarrsingly bad when your'e a casual observer of this thread.

Chetan_Rao Everyone knows that an aftermarket build can't be as reliable as an OEM build. If they don't they are just kidding themselves.
I'm not saying a 3 lakh budget is cheap skating, please re-read my post.. The usage of chinese parts are. The tuner isn't busy to bother talking to you, I said one cannot always be free to talk to you.. As long as he gets back to you at the end of the day it's perfectly fine and if one has ever visited any tuners warehouse they can see for themselves that they aren't the only guys with a build lined up.. Everyone has important stuff on their mind, but when one decided to put his work before personal life that must show how much attention one gives to his customer.

Easy to misinterpret posts when one isn't flexible enough to see beyond their already fixed mindset about a topic

Yea everyone's entitled to their opinion, I never said he musnt vent out his experience man. I only said just because one had a bad experience it doesnt mean eeveryone who got a car built by that guy has as well. And about wrench weilding monkeys, don't take it literally mate. It was a figure of speech. Frankly a custom job needs more skill than a bolt on kit. hence the use of that term, I hope i made myself clear.

Last edited by Aditya : 11th May 2016 at 06:52. Reason: Replied to another post
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Old 5th May 2016, 21:40   #42
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

This is really sad buddy. We see only positive or good stuff about turbo build/remap in forum. Nobody cares to write their bad experience in detail like you. You have shown everything with proof and definitely an eye opener. I too had bad experience with one of the most reputed tuner in bangalore. He did not even know what type of turbo my car has and remapped it which was pathetic.
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Old 5th May 2016, 21:45   #43
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

How did the IHI one suddenly become BIG for the car and why did it change to GT25 replica? Why wasn't this replica suggested earlier during the discussion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
PS: No offence Mr Fieroid. I am not finding it in correlation to your responses here with what Mr James has posted. I am not sure if James has twisted facts and presented them here to gain sympathy and momentum. If he had, it would have been opposed by you with facts in reality. But I find no hard facts that support you data. I am not blaming the tuner world or anyone here. It is just that I feel something is a-miss!!
No issues on that. You seem to have missed out that I said the first turbo was claimed to be a ihi replica and didn't work and we had to settle for a smaller t25 replica. And a lot of things have been misquoted. Well it's easy to point a finger at someone who people want to nail down. I don't have much to say here. Time is the best healer and we will surely take such instances as a feedback to improvise. Although we offered help and assistance to redo things free of cost, this thread shows up. This was a year ago.
I would like to state that the gaskets and oil lines are things that we have taken as feedback long ago. We run braided lines on all builds now. And even improvised on many other design aspects. The manifold welds are shoddy to my own taste since it was done in a hurry replacing a Honda flange. We offered James a replacement header and downpipe too. We are glad the community is growing and we will do our best in improvising and taking feedback positively.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 6th May 2016 at 07:49. Reason: Fixing quote.
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Old 5th May 2016, 21:54   #44
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

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The video you supposedly have might show the same? Maybe the certain someone who told you made it look worse than what it was so that he could join the "Joel hating club" and gel along?
There is a Joel hating club too? The video was floating about online and that’s where I got hold of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
Such an irony for the website, and some are advising you to go legal?! Let's think about it for a second, all the things you and I and many more have gotten done to their cars are illegal in the first place.. Can someone imagine the storm one might start and spoil the whole industry just because you followed someone's "advice" on an internet portal?
Well, im willing to let the cops take my car away since it has no resale value right now. But taking him to court will get me back more than the value of the car. Isnt it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
James has had his story to tell with pictures backing his "claims"
Quick question, can I call out your positive experiences as ‘Claims’ too? No offence, Anoop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
This is really sad buddy. We see only positive or good stuff about turbo build/remap in forum. Nobody cares to write their bad experience in detail like you. You have shown everything with proof and definitely an eye opener. I too had bad experience with one of the most reputed tuner in bangalore. He did not even know what type of turbo my car has and remapped it which was pathetic.
I had read about your experience, Doctor. As I said earlier, we cannot call all the tuners as rogues just because of a few rotten apples. There are many good ones out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieroid View Post
We run braided lines on all builds now.
What? Were you living in the stone age all this while? People have been insisting on braided oil lines since decades. Are you waking up to all this now?

Last edited by Aditya : 11th May 2016 at 06:52. Reason: Quoted text edited
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Old 5th May 2016, 21:57   #45
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

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......
Easy to misinterpret posts when one isn't flexible enough to see beyond their already fixed mindset about a topic
It's amusing how much advice you dish out that you don't follow yourself. I did read your post completely, and you did say all of those things. Context is understandably misunderstood in writing often, but your condescending tone is hard to miss.

I never went beyond asking Joel to clarify a few bits, and honestly, got a much more polite response from him than your generalized, condescending rant asking others not to, wait for it, generalize and be condescending. You may also want to reconsider your usage of 'irony' while you're at it.

Mods: Tried updating previous post but ran out of 30-min edit window. Please merge as appropriate.
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