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Old 8th May 2016, 01:06   #91
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

We have heard both sides of the story. Now I don't know who's right or wrong but there are similar complaints about Joel in a biking forum. Now either Joel is really bad at his job (which seems hard to believe based on his work on the TVS bikes) and he's really bad at dealing with customers. Not taking any sides here but I guess it's best that both of you sit together and sort out your differences. Forums are meant to encourage co-operation between members and not for mud slinging.
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Old 8th May 2016, 09:22   #92
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

I skimmed this post before, but now that I've read it, I have a few questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
1. He's not working on your car only. There are many other clients such as yourself who are all in a damn hurry.
This is a business, is it not? Money is actually changing hands right? The customer has a right for a service. Schedule your builds. Do not take on builds that you cannot currently service due to lack of time and/or labour. RaceConcepts isn't a Government Office. Hell, even Goverment offices have Right to Service and guaranteed response times these days.

If you expect the scene to be like how it was ten years ago, when the number of tuner shops numbered in the single digits, you are oh-so-wrong. There are dozens of competent workshops across the country. You cannot treat your customer like dirt anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
2. There are fixed race schedules that are frankly more important than street builds. That's where you hone your skills as a tuner and apply it to your street builds.
You're joking right? You race to build the brand. Races are where you prove to your prospective customers that you know your stuff. Your customers are who actually bring you money. Going to win races while ignoring your customers will create exactly this situation. Racing is where development happens, true. The only reason there is F1 or rallying or any competitive motorsport is for OEMs to flex their muscles.

If racing worked like how you claimed, OEMs would shutter their customer car divisions instead of racing teams, when the money gets tight.

Besides, India doesn't have much of an organized racing scene for tuner cars. There are drags here and there, then and there. It's not like you HAVE to make a race day because you're competing in a tournament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
3. Ordering parts from abroad and getting it cleared with customs is no joke. Small little things like a smartwatch I've had numerous delays and frustrating calls. So automobile parts are no joke.
It is no joke indeed. If its a big enough shipment, call an automotive clearing house, get their help. They are glad to. Or, if its small orders, send it over by FedEx/DHL/similar and they will clear your cargo. When you send by post, your stuff gets stuck and you need to run around trying to get it cleared.

Anyway, this doesn't matter in this specific case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
4. The tuner has his own personal life to attend to. I've seen this guy work his behind off until 10 in the night when he has way more important things to attend to at home. He didn't budge because there was my car and 2 other cars to be tuned for a drag event the next day. He comes at 11 everyday and stays until late night. Cut him some slack man, I've seen tuners designate the work to their employees and head out for a drink. Easy to point a few instances and post it for people to get judgemental about one's work ethics. If you really want utmost care and attention to your car please take your car to a guy who's had good knowledge about the tuning scene but is relatively new at building turbo cars.. You'll have another set of issues there as well.. Which is totally normal..
None of this matters. james isn't freeloading and RaceConcepts isn't doing stuff for free. The mechanic who fixed my power steering - he does rebuilds steering racks, power steering pumps, hell - even complete rebuilds of Hyundai CRDI engines in his shop. The guy is borderline genius. Yet he has little to no customers, why? He's a lazy bugger, that's why. You can be the best shop in the world, but if you cannot stick to timelines while charging your customers, you're going out of business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
I'm not saying you got to forget the car for a year or whatever.. Just be prepared for delays.. Merclover's car is in the workshop, it's taken months as well but the amount of upgrades it's getting is phenomenal.. It takes time, if you don't have the patience please don't turbo your car. Get a FFE or some basic stuff and expect it to be done in a few days.
Let merclover say what he has planned for that car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
So please be prepared for all this before you decide to spend your hard earned money to turbo your car. And if you do decide to turbo your car, then don't spoil it for others by nitpicking on such basic stuff and call out names.. It's a part of the build, accept it..
Basic stuff?!? Turbo coolant lines are basic for you? You keep harping on about AFR this and ECU that. I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
- Yes Joel doesn't attend calls sometimes: He busy working on cars, get the manager's number instead.. He'll make it a point to get in touch with you as soon as he can.. I've gotten frustrated as well but when I spent time at his workshop I'd do the same.. Everyone wants their cars done quickly and also wants him to attend calls at the same time.. It's not practically possible to be frank.
Dude, james went down/called when he was promised the car was done. No matter how big of a racer you are, you absolutely cannot justify having a customer come down and wait at someone else's shop for hours without answering his calls. He sure could answer his phone when someone else called, couldn't he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
*Prepare yourself for some small disappointments and visits to the workshops
I really don't think a blown turbo or if-I-had-blinked-it-would've-blown engine are "small" disappointments. They are pretty damn big disappointments.

Anyway, you have written a whole diatribe without reading about james' experiences, all to defend Race Concepts. Or you actually did read the post and didn't understand jack. Either way, poor show man. Poor show.

Please don't try to generalize the tuning scene as:

1) Unreliable, bear with it.

Boosted cars can be reliable. Not OEM reliable, but they can last for hundreds of thousands of kilometers if done right.

2) The tuners are doing a favour for you, even though you are paying them. Grin and bear it.

They are not. They are doing a service for which they are charging money. If they cannot complete it in the time the customer asks for, then tell the customer that let him/her decide. Of course, unexpected eventualities happen, but those need to be informed. Well before the day he is expecting to collect the car. If what the customer expects cannot be done on the customer's budget, then inform so.

3) This is the best you get.

Hell no. There are plenty options. Competent, knowledgeable options.
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Old 8th May 2016, 21:36   #93
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
I skimmed this post before, but now that I've read it, I have a few questions.
Firstly, let me clear one thing out for you. Your post make me feel like you think I'm being paid by RaceConcepts to gun against James or anyone else who has something "negative" to say about them. I have absolutely nothing against James, I do not know him personally and from what I've heard about him and also inferred about his posts directed towards me is he's a nice guy who's disgruntled with his build (which in his own right should be because of the issues it caused him). He's one of the first few I've heard off who's ventured into the turbo mania and that has rippled to everyone else including me to turbo my car as well.

Also I never said all turbo cars are unreliable. I've clearly talked about my car which is very reliable with hiccups here and there. Fedex throws a lot of issues at clearing as well, I've had issues with them as well. India Post is a joke but atleast I could meet the clearing officer personally and have my shipment cleared. That doesn't mean that I'd order anything through them again, it's simply not worth the effort. Merclover will eventually come up with his own thread, which I'm really keen on reading as a fellow civic owner since his plans lined up for it is mouth watering. Looking at his car being worked on itself makes me want to go further into my build I do not have the patience to pick out every line you've typed and clarify myself for each and everything. Not after going through this thread with hoards of posts stating the same thing over & over again. No offence to anyone who've posted but my psychological limits don't give me the luxury to do that all over again.

And the summary you've typed of at the end of your post, I don't think I meant custom builds aretotally unreliable and people HAVE to bear with it. I merely pointed out that they cannot be OEM reliable (which you have said a number of times as well).

Here's my end say for this thread, RC has admitted that this build was not upto his standards and are willing to set it right. But James is sick of all the nonsense he's put through so he's not willing to. And I'm sure Joel will take all the posts as a feedback and work on bettering the company's customer relationship management. Although expecting vodafone level customer care is hilarious, there's always scope for improvement for everyone. I'm on this website to network with fellow petrolheads, get exposed to new things and learn while I'm at it. Which is like a sea of opportunities on this forum. I'm not hear to gang up on people and argue with others about who's right and who's not. That being said every post is warranted a reply and I would love to see a lively forum. Thanks for taking time to go through my post and taking time to type out a post

Blahman out *drops mic*

Last edited by blahman : 8th May 2016 at 21:38.
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Old 8th May 2016, 22:28   #94
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
I have absolutely nothing against James, I do not know him personally and from what I've heard about him and also inferred about his posts directed towards me is he's a nice guy who's disgruntled with his build (which in his own right should be because of the issues it caused him). He's one of the first few I've heard off who's ventured into the turbo mania and that has rippled to everyone else including me to turbo my car as well.
If you don't know James or have no fist hand information about his build, how is it that you completely disregarded everything he posted and tried to promote these assumptions? Not to mention the dripping sarcasm with which you did so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
What exactly does one expect from a custom turbo build man? Do you expect your car to have "Japanese reliability" from a build where you cost cut (using toned down words to be civil) with Chinese parts, small budget and clear cut guidelines for the tuner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
Your post make me feel like you think I'm being paid by RaceConcepts to gun against James or anyone else who has something "negative" to say about them.
I don't think anybody here said that.
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Old 9th May 2016, 08:40   #95
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Back in 2010 when the name RaceConcepts was not even coined I guess, I got Joel's help to enhance my RTR's performance. Big bore & FFE. And I have been a super happy customer till date. Having done thousands of KMs of touring on the setup its been pretty robust. Ofcourse 6 years later the performance has dropped but that's expected even from stock bike. Still does 120+ with ease which is happy enough scenario from a 8.5 year old machine. So I would refrain from generalizing about reliability issues

Never the less, sad to hear about the issues faced by James. Hope you both talk this out and settle the matter.
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Old 9th May 2016, 10:24   #96
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
Here's my end say for this thread, RC has admitted that this build was not upto his standards and are willing to set it right. But James is sick of all the nonsense he's put through so he's not willing to. And I'm sure Joel will take all the posts as a feedback and work on bettering the company's customer relationship management. Although expecting vodafone level customer care is hilarious, there's always scope for improvement for everyone. I'm on this website to network with fellow petrolheads, get exposed to new things and learn while I'm at it. Which is like a sea of opportunities on this forum. I'm not hear to gang up on people and argue with others about who's right and who's not. That being said every post is warranted a reply and I would love to see a lively forum. Thanks for taking time to go through my post and taking time to type out a post

Blahman out *drops mic*
Well said. This is the kind of positive response that James and many others are expecting from Joel. Why do you think James refuses to take help from Joel, it's not because of the money or the technical issues, it's because of how he was treated. Any paid customer deserves better treatment. So far Joel has not addressed the issue of unanswered calls and leaving james stranded on a couple of occasions. Hopefully he acknowledges his shortcomings in customer management and works in a positive direction to improve that aspect of his business.
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Old 9th May 2016, 10:58   #97
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
it's best that both of you sit together and sort out your differences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
Hope you both talk this out and settle the matter
Pedro and Soumen, kindly follow the link and refer to the highlighted post. It seems you missed it.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3967423 (Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
I have absolutely nothing against James, I do not know him personally and from what I've heard about him and also inferred about his posts directed towards me is he's a nice guy who's disgruntled with his build (which in his own right should be because of the issues it caused him).
When you judge someone, use your own intellect to do so and do not rely on what others have told you.

Thank you for the kind words. I do not know what caused the change of heart but it doesn’t matter for you have already been judged by everyone! Just some friendly advice- A closed mouth gathers no feet!

I wish you great success in your build and future plans.

Cheers!
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Old 9th May 2016, 13:00   #98
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

I seriously think that the purpose of this thread is served. James has repeatedly said that he expects nothing from Joel and this thread is to educate the members about the probable pitfalls in tuning. Thanks to him the people opting for an upgrade can take an informed decision on the matter.

We have seen people supporting Joel too. Its quite clear that he has done good work in the past. Hopefully he has imbibed something from this whole fiasco and will be better for it.
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Old 9th May 2016, 14:13   #99
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Hate when people toy around with my car, this was a couple steps beyond. I tend to visit the garage every other day when my car is being worked on to avoid these kind of issues which i guess wasn't an option for you at all.

I shared this with a couple friends who wanted to get their city done by RC.
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Old 9th May 2016, 14:16   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james View Post
Hi Paras, the general tone of your post is bad. However...


I beg to differ. Im sure the turbo would have lasted for quite a while more if not for oil starvation. Even with the worn shaft, it was boosting normally. The issue, as mentioned earlier was the thick embarrassing smoke. AFAIK just the turbo was a replica. Can you tell me what else was fake/replica? you seem to know a lot about all the parts that went in.

Can you please elaborate on your compressor map reading techniques and interpreting techniques? Maybe I could learn something or maybe we could teach you something.


Im super happy for you. Its always great to know that a mod was successful and someone is enjoin it. Maybe you could start a thread on the car. Would love to learn more.

Can you elaborate on how to check if a braided hose with a rubber sleeve is steel or nylon braided without cutting open the sleeve? That info will help a lot of people who are getting ready to go FI.

Cheers!
Sorry I didn't mean to hurt.
The turbo with a worn shaft would have failed as the wear wouldnt be even. Like how you would get vibrations on an unbalanced tire.

The other parts have been purchased by someone with not a lot of morals. Can you trust getting original parts ?

I learnt about reading about compressor maps and calculations from a book " maximum boost - by corky bell " . I can scan and email the pages relating to that if you want.

By bad on the hose. But again I waited by my car the entire week the job was being done. Not possible since you live in a different city.

Not much of a thread started guy. But if you want to ask anything about my car go for it.
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Old 9th May 2016, 15:35   #101
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

I haven't posted about my mods on my various cars and bikes for a long time and part of it is due to Joel. Not saying he is a bad tuner or his work isn't good, but I have my reasons, some come well under this thread's reason and some don't, I'm still going to put it down here as it shows how a guy who was enthusiastic about sharing every detail about the smallest mods to doing major things and just simply enjoying it without even talking about it.

I will first talk about my mods done by Joel.

I still own my first bike, Pulsar 220. I read about JOEL , not Race Concepts, in xbhp in 2010. I got talking to him and got my head sent to him and paid him for porting and polishing and for a FFE. His work is still great. BUT, a very big but here. It took over a month for the head and FFE to arrive, it was the same ordeal then, multiple calls, mails, messages, etc. But rarely did he answer and when he did, there was ALWAYS a REASON. I personally believe in simple things, If a person wants to do something he will, there CAN'T be 50 reasons not to do it, there can be 2-3. If you were to not go to work calling 10 days in a row spouting different reasons, your boss would fire you. Do you know why? Because even a child understands that a reason is limited, once you give many reasons, they become EXCUSES and that't what I got from him. But honestly speaking, I WAS LUCKY. I actually got my stuff delivered, I know a few who didn't. I had paid him 12k total for FFE and Head work. A guy I know paid him over 40k and didn't receive anything for over a year and after that he stopped talking about it so I don't know if he has ever received it or the money back. But I won't talk about him specifically.

Bad review about Joel aren't new, they are a dime a dozen. Now as I said, I am happy with what little work he has done, even now. I was in 2011 also. I was just very unhappy with his delivery schedule. I had talked to him about completely doing up my Pulsar then, and I was quoted 30k which was completely reasonable for the work he was going to do. I had 2 options, either open the engine, send him the required parts and wait for a month or 2 or even a year. Or go up to him and sit there till he did the work. Now as its easy to see Option 1 is sitting without a bike for god knows how log. But the problem with option 2 is also the same. What if i go there and he still makes me wait for a month? Would I stay there? Would I spend hotel money every day? Should I consider moving to bangy till my work is finished? Should I buy a house besides his so as to never need to call? I know these are exaggerations, but just think about it, with the way I was treated and the way many have been treated, do these not look like the most effective way of atleast having a Chance of getting my work done?.

I just couldn't make up my mind and started finding someone else. I did, quite a few but didn't know if any of them were good. After alot of searching, reading, reviewing etc, I finally decided on a guy who was in Indonesia. I made a list of things I was going to ask him to send, of what I needed to buy locally and what I needed to procure internationally. Now, here is again what I want to show how Joel changed me. Thinking of someone with unburnt hands, I had 2 options, Pay an Indian, who was in the same country as me some 30k to get x work done or pay a guy who I just know via FB similar money, then source some parts and labour locally and a few specific parts internationally, I would have chosen the Indian in India. But because I had my hands burnt and saw a few of my friends who burnt their arms, I decided to go with the complicated and crazy option.

Listing my stuff, I needed a bigger bore, high lift cam and a bigger carb. With advise and reading up stuff, I decided to go the BIG BORE way. I asked the guy from Indonesia to send me a 71mm piston (stock is 67mm). I also asked for cam, which would make power above 5k rpm. I also decided to go with a 34mm Flatslide Keihein Carb. I was very impressed with this guy, as he always answered messages, calls and emails. Even though this is something which isn't suppose to be impressive but I was. Again showing how Joel had changed my thinking. I know that not everyone is like this, but I somehow, subconsciously expected this guy to do the same and when he didn't, when he behaved like just another NORMAL guy, I was surprised.

He got the payment and in a week he sent the package to me and gave me the necessary details I would need to get it here. He used Speed Post, which as anyone who has dealt with it, the slowest form of delivery for India. I still received my package in under a Month. So this had costed me lesser and took lesser time to come from Indonesia than Bangalore. I was happy. By this time, my carb was also on the way, but it would take another 2 weeks to arrive as it was being carried by my cousin who was coming in from UK.

I got my original block bored and had my cam fitted. Once everything was done, I started my bike and saw my FFE glow ORANGE within a few seconds. I immediately shut it off. It was 8 pm here (21:30 Indonesia), but I still gave the guy a call. He picked up, which I didn't expect, I explained and he said that its because of very less fuel, as the bike is running very lean. I then waited for 2 more weeks for my carb. It arrived, I fitted it, the bike ran fairly well, but I wasn't able to get the power I wanted. As it was a flatslide, it was a nightmare to tune. But even after all this, I just thought, 'This is still ok, I have my bike with me, it atleast runs and isn't parked in a garage or sitting in a city far away from me'. Again thanks to Joel. Fast forward to a few months and due to my negligence I had my engine seized. I then had my bike turned back to stock and haven't done any mods on it since. Not because I was unhappy with Joel's work or the guy from Indonesia, but because I had to either rely on a person who I couldn't rely on to return parts/bike on time or someone who couldn't check and help on rectifying problems with my bike in person, even though he tried his best via Skype, phone calls, videos and messages.

Fast forward to May 2013, I bought myself a Duke 200. Again I considered Joel for basic mods and advance mods. I again didn't choose him because of the same reasons, not because it had happenED to me, but it was still happenING to friends. So I went and got a FFE designed by Automech and a remap by Kiirus. I also got a smaller rear sprocket put in, and with these 3 basic mods, I was happy with my bike. I could do top speed runs of over 155 kmph, but main was, I could ride on the highway at 100 without the engine feeling stressed. After a year of using the 200, I was bored of the power and wanted more. And it was around that time, sometime in 2014, that Joel put up a few things about a Duke that he had worked on and it really interested me. This time, I was really amped, I was again ready to take a risk. I was ready to be with out my bike for however long it would take as I knew that I would be happy with his work later. But I met a friend who I hadn't for a long time and saw his SS FFE made by Raceconcepts. It was rusted in some parts, then I remembered about another friend's dented FFE which too started to rust. As we discussed a few things, I came to realize that what Joel's work was, isn't now. Its Race Concepts and that HE rarely works on street builds, he just has his guys do it. Was I going to spend 40k on a bike which wasn't going to be worked on someone I don't know? No, I wasn't. I for the third time dropped the idea of modding my bike from Joel/Race Concepts.

In Oct 2014, I then bought a Duke 390 and am using that right now. I haven't kept that stock either. It was the fourth time I considered Joel, but again reading various threads, talking to many people with previous experience, with current experience, decided that even though I had dealt with him 5 years ago, I was lucky then and I shouldn't expect that to happen again. My bike is now running a PowerTronic ECU with a custom map, which I made, its OKAY but not Tuner level. I run a exhaust which I'm having custom made as per my taste, in terms of looks and power and after 2 already made, I am still not satisfied with the power, where Joel's 1 FFE was enough to excite me. I have made a custom handle for a more aggressive look and riding position, but that isn't related to RC in anyway.

End of the day, I haven't stopped modding my vehicles, its just that I am extra cautious. I had always felt that his work for MY bike was good, but I had also seen many bike seized running his works. His response was always that they didn't install properly.

Now, enough of pleasantries. I have nothing against him personally but, I feel that if a few bikes/cars have problems, it can be blamed on the owner not doing the necessary work properly. But I do no understand how can you as a knowledgeable person say that a bolt on kit is installed incorrectly and has caused the problem. Doesn't bolt on literally mean BOLT ON, as in just fit it in the correct place and tighten the nuts. Isn't it suppose to be as easy as stock? If its not, then why mention as Bolt On? Now coming to the topic of this car here. I feel that if you KNEW for a FACT that the parts being provided, keeping the source of the parts aside, were incorrect/incompatible/incompetent, why did you agree to do this build?

If you always end up blaming the customer, why not back it with proper proof? Why not answer the necessary questions? Why do you NEVER talk about how you do not respond to someone once you have received their money and haven't completed their work? Why am I still asking the same question about you after 5.5 years of knowing about you. Why have these questions not been answer ever?

I do not feel its fair to anyone to speculate. I would love for everyone here just reminding Joel that he has yet to answer alot of question. I am quoting Chetan below with a few question which have yet to be answered and I would request anyone who replies to this thread to quote the same and keep reminding Joel to answer them rather than just avoid them


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post

1. Joel accused the OP of forcing him to use incompatible, sub-standard parts while there's documented evidence that the OP only purchased those after obtaining Joel's consent. Joel hasn't refuted/clarified this so far.

2. Joel accused the OP of providing TWO specific sub-standard parts (cheap Chinese BOV and a faulty outsized waste-gate), but the user has documentary evidence of being invoiced for the said parts by Race Concepts which would indicate Joel bought those parts himself. What's the truth?

3. Joel claims he wasn't comfortable by the OP's demands to begin with, but still took on a build he himself claims would never have worked, but "it came to us as work so we took it on", meaning what exactly? This won't work but there's money to be made so why decline?

4. Joel claims he did what the OP demanded despite his misgivings, but there are documented instances of him circumventing the OP's demands. One specific example is using nylon-braided lines when the OP specifically demanded steel-braided ones. If the build is inspected part-by-part, there will surely be plenty others.

5. Joel hasn't responded to specific claims of poor workmanship (except one instance where he accepted bad welding work, but again blamed the OP for forcing the compromise on him), which again is backed up by evidence from OP. Even assuming the OP is to be blamed for supplying some faulty parts, what about shoddy workmanship after keeping the car multiple months?
I have only kept the question in the quote, please answer them Joel.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 9th May 2016 at 21:18. Reason: Formatting for better readability.
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Old 9th May 2016, 15:43   #102
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Whoa! Just went through the entire thread. Only the OP has come up with a proper detailed account of the events with facts, figures & pictures. I really do feel for you James, and I do not wish for a similar ordeal on anyone else.

Also @Joel, I do not know you personally, and have no ill feelings about you or Race concepts, on top of it am a noob to aspects of tuning, but it’s tough not to be appalled at the way the customer is being handled, or the way the customer has been replied to. As someone from the service industry myself, one simply cannot use references like inner wears & such blatant angry posts. It’s just a very wrong way of dealing with these things.

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@yzfrjs -

Whatever is his version I m ready to listen and address if needed.
His version is already out there in full. He has said everything on the topic, and people are only commenting because you have been inadequate in your replies.

Agreed that everyone seems to be getting into the “all tuning scene is bad” & “don’t mod your cars” etc etc, but you can stay on the topic, give your facts properly and shut them up. If you have the time to rant, then please spare sometime and explain your views properly with the appropriate proofs and simply move on man. I think first you should address the topic at hand properly, then stay on the topic until you have put forward your argument in a polite manner. Even then if people still disrespect you or the tuning scene, only then you should rant or act as a messiah for the entire scene. I think everyone understands and appreciates the fact that you have dedicated your life, money, time effort, blood, sweat & tears into this scene; but for that you may start a new thread.

Additionally what people do on other threads should be none of your concern, how many comments does a good thread gets should not be of your concern, how people react to the entire forum should not be your concern. You should be concerned about sorting this out first. If the mods thought that any post was inappropriate, then they would have already taken the requisite action. Agreed that less than 5% of the people here know anything about a modded ride, and this is why a lot of us are on the forum, to learn, to share and the way you have put this across is very offensive to the entire forum and you are basically putting across the other 95% of the forum as stupid. We may not know a lot about tuned cars, or the way they run, or what it is to own one, but we do know when a customer is not being handled properly. And I am glad this community runs to the aid of a member who has been wronged with. I am proud to be a part of this. Additionally please go and read the rules once again. In your 12 years as a community member you seem to have forgotten how to write in the forum. Writing a$$#ole is a no-no.

You might be an excellent tuner, one of the very best in the country, but if this is the way a customer is being handled pre & post the build at your business, then it’s better if I stay on the stupid side of the fence, with the other 95%. Additionally if one is too busy to take calls, (one off instance is ok as everyone has emergencies, but repeatedly????) then it’s better to stay on the drag strip.

Still hope you calm down and post a proper transparent reply, and put this matter to bed.

Last edited by akp666 : 9th May 2016 at 15:51.
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Old 9th May 2016, 15:45   #103
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

I do not know James, but I dealt with Joel and team personally last year sometime in February 2015. I can feel some of the pains pointed by OP. While I should not comment on Joel's knowledge and expertise in tuning as I am a noob in this matter, but customer satisfaction is something they have to improve a lot. Job done was not bad in my case (though a promised SS tip was actually chrome painted on mild steel exhaust tip ). Mine was a simple CAI and FFE in a Suzuki K12 engine. If anyone can get hold of my call records from my network provider, you can see how many calls I made to him and out of them how many was answered (in the context of this whole thread, you should know the ratio was less). Promised delivery date was in 3-5 days max and I got back my car after 3 weeks, without any updates on work in between and mentioned various reasons (or excuses) for delay every time I went there or contact them. Then, on my complain about droning, he offered me that he would work on a 2nd stage Can to reduce sound further keeping the budget as low as possible, which was good, but "tarikh pe tarikh" made me just went back to stock after using it only for 5-6 months (Complained after 4 months of install and after 1 months of not getting any schedule, I gave up and decided to go stock). Yes there was Vinay or Uday or someone (I cannot recall at this moment as I deleted every contact of RC after that) who answered my call most of the time and gave me dates, dates after dates. After that experience, I was sort of expecting to see some thread like this and now here it is. And it was bound to happen if you deal things like this. What ever was the reason for not getting a schedule, ultimately I lost hope and I too found peace forgetting everything and went back to stock with "small" loss of 20K. Some may say that I gave up soon and should wait for a bit longer and get the work done, but that was the limit I could bear, as it was my daily drive and I lost trust that how long it could take for further work to be done. Like many, now I believe a stock powerful car is the way to go for an enthusiast in India until tuning business here becomes more streamlined business. And meanwhile, I hope RC will take all these as a feedback to improve their customer satisfaction ratings, keep in contact with client with updates and make an effort to stick to promised dates.

regards,
/D
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Old 9th May 2016, 18:13   #104
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Default Re: Bad experience turboing my Baleno at Race Concepts, Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear James and all - let me ask a dopey question. . Will a "real-hot-hatch" sell in India and give decent volumes to warrant a business case? I can see that the customer base is developing quite fast. I can also see that the service providers are completely absent. As of today, I believe that there is no real hot-hatch selling well in India. How would you approach this business, which has to look way beyond the product per-se! What say guys, let me know your comments, please!.........
Given the Indian market still doesn't embrace outright performance-oriented cars in the budget space, how about OEMs providing performance kits & components for their mass-market products, backed up by service support? ECU remaps, suspension tweaks, higher-grade components, everything sold both as individual elements or as packages, based on demand. E.g. Someone happy with their engine tune and just wanting a reworked suspension shouldn't be forced to buy the whole 'bundle'.

Kits can be made-to-order so dealers aren't stuck with inventory and can run a JIT setup, mass-market buyers can still buy the 'cheaper/VFM' stock car, and enthusiasts get OEM-grade performance components with service support. One car I can quote off the top of my head is the Swift Sport sold in Europe. Suzuki has all required parts in production already and if there's one OEM who can afford to experiment, it's the market leader.

Too much to ask?

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 9th May 2016 at 18:17.
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Old 9th May 2016, 23:30   #105
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I am shocked at the number of guys who feel modding is not worth it.
People like joel gibe every one a bad name. I have worked with KS Motorsport , got stellar advice from Jignesh of viper performance . almost got a race dynamics ecm. These are all honest good guys. Who do not compromise on quality and reliability. They do wild builds which will have problems but you will be informed , given realistic deadlines and glitches ironed out before giving the car back.
On the other end of the spectrum are people who think they are the greatest tuner to walk the face of the earth. Fortunately Joel at least knows his stuff. There are jokers who Dont know the basics call themselves tuners.

All that said the satisfaction, the pride and the stupid grin is worth it all.
Yes it will never be as hassle f,ree as stock , your friends , family , wife, gf , dog will think you are a little nuts, but it will be your unique car.
Not just an accessory stuck on that makes your car look different ( that's just to impress others)
Your car will drive like your car only. No other vehicle of the same make will be like it either. That's a custom job. And when it all falls into place there is nothing like it. All over the world car enthusiasts mod their cars, its easier to buy a more powerful car abroad. People still do stupid mods on cars and make 1200hp Vw golfs . stuff in a supra engine into a Mercedes.
Go ballistic with a new Honda. An accord engined, rear engines rwd Peugeot , I just saw a skoda Octavia with its engine in the back at the drags, it didn't run well but I am sure next year it will be a beast. Its never gonna stop, because its so damn fun.

Last edited by paras211 : 9th May 2016 at 23:35.
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