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Old 6th May 2016, 12:26   #16
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

I am still surprised at the owners who run to the Mahindra showroom as soon as they launch a new vehicle, even after those long thread on XUV 500 niggles. If they are launching a new generation of a vehicle, it's fine as they are known to work on the problems and keep releasing better variants.

They haven't clearly mastered the art of Automatics or AMT to be specific in this case (I wonder when will I start hearing the XUV Auto issues). Hope this thread makes the case of the suffering ones even more vocal. And I am surprised that there isn't much progress in your case after tweeting the heavy weights; that's not the Mahindra brand I have known.

Please do keep us posted on the progress of the case.

In the mean time, my 2 cents is to stay away from a brand new car during the initial hype and then buy after reading some reviews - the slightly higher price (after introductory price gimmick is over) can bring you exponential value of peace of mind. For the Indian brands specially, buy the model after a clean 1-2 years, as GTO mentioned.
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Old 6th May 2016, 12:46   #17
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

While i haven't had much experience with AMTs, the engineer in me tells me that the problems you describe are inherent to the AMT technology.
As pointed out before in this thread, it is all about managing the clutch, and it seems in traffic what you are experiencing is the control unit not being able to decide whether to engage the clutch or not and if so, then how much slip should be allowed.

I would suggest you test drive another TUV300 AMT (either from the showrooms posing as a new customer, or a friend's) and see if these issues are common to both vehicles.
That way you will know whether your car has a fault or the design itself is flawed.
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Old 6th May 2016, 13:40   #18
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

This is not to shoot down Indian R&D and manufacturing. It is good that we try to develop our own version of a technology that already exists. However; I would tread cautiously. When I read about the TUV being available with an AMT, I was all cheers. When I read that Mahindra had developed it on their own, while it was an achievement, I thought it is best to wait and watch how this goes.

If I were to put money on a car with an AMT, I would not hesitate if the car used a Magneti Marelli or Bosch system cause I know these companies go to lengths to test their products. Even if you did run in to problems, there's a ton of resources that can help diagnose the issue.

I hope Mahindra come up with a solution soon. They are usually quite proactive.
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Old 6th May 2016, 13:45   #19
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Yes it was my mistake that I had purchased the newly launched Mahindra TUV AMT but one can not be fully assured that the product you are going to buy will be 100% free of defects or niggles, despite of any brand (take example of Brezza, people are going mad buying a new launch). What we expect is, a company should be responsible enough to do all R & D and road tests for several months in all possible Indian conditions before taking them to the consumers.

Problems started within first month of launch when they have made silent recalls for faulty parts, also AMT started giving jerks like anything. I was surprised as a customer thinking what extra ordinary we do that we are able to produce these faults, do we kick our cars before starting or try to fly like helicopters and they having all such test conditions, fancy gadgets with an army of engineers are not able to produce the same.

Also for people saying AMT is a failed technology, I would suggest to try driving Duster AMT. Yes there are delays in gearshifts but that is acceptable but there are no jerks or unwanted clutch operations and thats the difference between two companies i.e. Renault & Mahindra - same technology but different outcome.

When people say Mahindra is now more customer centric, I would say yes they customer centric in providing solution which is available to them but when it comes to the matter of R&D they are failed.

Take an example of the, going to be launched TUV 100 bhp - Just because customers say they need more power Mahindra just retro fitted NuvoSports engine to TUV now. Considering NuvoSport is launched last month only and its "customer testing" results are still awaited. Imagine they fitted the engine with in one month and did all the testing and product is ready to be launched thinking that all prospective EcoSport and Brezza customers will flood the bookings just because its more in bhp.
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Old 6th May 2016, 14:19   #20
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Thumbs up Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezee View Post
Take an example of the, going to be launched TUV 100 bhp - Just because customers say they need more power Mahindra just retro fitted NuvoSports engine to TUV now. Considering NuvoSport is launched last month only and its "customer testing" results are still awaited. Imagine they fitted the engine with in one month and did all the testing and product is ready to be launched thinking that all prospective EcoSport and Brezza customers will flood the bookings just because its more in bhp.
Good example. Another one which come to mind is launching of Scorpio and XUV with 1.99 ltr engine with in a month of supreme court order banning diesel cars with 2.0 ltr and above engine capacity.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-engine-5.html (Mahindra Scorpio & XUV500 get new 1.99L mHawk diesel engine)
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Old 6th May 2016, 14:25   #21
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Ezee, your case is really disappointing. Hope M&M addresses your concerns with AMT soon.

You mentioned in your post that the AMT warning light flashed in your car and it was attended to. This surely means that there is/was some issue with the AMT and it was probably not fully addressed. M&M cannot safely claim that the AMT's behavior is normal. Have you checked if all is well on the OBD diagnostics? If you don't have a OBD II reader, you may want to get one.

On a side note, my AMT TUV is working smoothly so far (fingers tightly crossed). In the last 6500 Kms, had no major complaints. The ECU upgrade made the gear shifts smooth and I don't notice many of the gear shifts now (could be that I have got used to it also). I drive in bad Mumbai traffic everyday for at least 70+ Kms and also did a Mumbai - Goa drive in March; all good so far.

My only concern with TUV is louder than normal engine sound when engine is cold (may be first 2-3 minutes of drive). The service center guys have told me its normal. While I don't like it, I have decided to live with it.

Quite happy with my TUV T8 AMT for now and I hope it remains like this God.

Edit: Need to mention though that I had to visit service center 4 times in the run so far - (1) 3000 Km service, (2) rattling in boot door (3) ECU and ICU Software upgrade and (4) 'tick-tick' sound from A-pedal and 'whoom-whoom' sound at slow speeds (vacuum modulator was replaced).

Last edited by rajpvrm : 6th May 2016 at 14:30.
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Old 6th May 2016, 14:27   #22
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

I tagged along with a friend to test drive the TUV. Things went well, and we didnt notice any of these issues on the test vehicle. We had a very short test drive because the person who accompanied us said that there was a queue at the showroom that wanted to TD the TUV. Funny, there wasnt a crowd when we got back.

Anyway, I talked my friend out of the TUV because to me it was only ugly vehicle and I dont think Mahindra put any effort into designing a good vehicle. Now that you brought this up, I feel I was right to push my friend away from the TUV.

I hope the higher-ups in Mahindra take note and resolve your issues.
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Old 6th May 2016, 14:47   #23
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Not specific to these issues ezee is facing and the comments about MM - This largely reminds me of my old boss's comments. He was a Director with Oracle and had a Scorpio which is used for 5 years. Faced niggles/issues and had the patience to pay many visits to service. He liked the vehicle though for its ruggedness. Finally he decided to sell the vehicle. I asked him why not upgrade to XUV W10. Even I was looking at a W4/W6 at that time.
His comment was , he can't live more with MM's pathetic service and repeating issues. He went for a Duster instead. The service again may not be the best but the duster definitely gave him peace of mind and reduced number of service visits except for regular service.

Not meant to bash MM. They should indeed give more time in r&d, testing, skills and training to service the new products.

Last edited by simplysaj : 6th May 2016 at 15:10. Reason: wanted to add one more line
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Old 6th May 2016, 15:11   #24
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

I do not buy the theory that one should wait 6-8 months after the launch of a new vehicle. If no one buys, who would be guinea pig? Who would do the testing and find the issues?
Rather, companies should do their test and r&d properly and then get their vehicles on road. I feel the consumer and the consumer laws need some empowerment in this regard. Companies putting out a faulty product should be penalised heavily and the consumer should be compensated appropriately, be it a replacement vehicle, free repairs or whatever needed.
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Old 6th May 2016, 15:39   #25
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Sharad Tater shares the following via email:

Quote:
Request your help in making my and other TUV AMT owners voices heard. Please share my issue in the new thread created for TUV300 AMT issues. My car is not road safe, have refused to take the delivery, still Mahindra transmission team is not doing anything. This is the height, in fact they are calling it a feature of TUV AMT.

I have purchased TUV300 T8 AMT from Mahindra dealer - Global Gallerie, Thane. The car was delivered on 29th November 2015.

My vehicle had to be taken to the service centre on 18th Dec, 23rd Dec, 27th Dec, 30th Dec, 19th Jan, 29th Mar & 28th Apr. Even now while writing this, the vehicle is in the dealer's workshop. Each time vehicle has been kept for minimum of two to three days and sometimes for weeks.

There have been issues related to AMT transmission performance, engine knocking and noise, fuel delivery module and vacuum modulators being faulty and all these parts got replaced. They have even upgraded ECU software three times.

With the latest transmission software upgrade, the vehicle keeps on maintaining the speed during AMT clutch operation, even if driver is not pressing the accelerator. The vehicle also resists brake pressure by the driver in order to maintain configured RPM. The engine does not get isolated during clutch operation as per norms.

This is a major cause of concern to me and many other TUV AMT owners. This endangers our and general public's safety on road. With no control on the vehicle's speed and transmission, how can we ensure a safe drive and avoid accidents?

Company has refused to solve this issue saying this is feature of TUV AMT transmission. Even after repeated requests, they have refused to give in writing also that maintaining vehicle's speed using software without driver's input is standard transmission feature of TUV.

I have refused to take the delivery of my car due to safety concerns, and I am scared of committing a road mishap. I have asked them to give to me in writing that maintaining optimum speed and RPM during clutch shifting and not isolating the engine is a normal feature of AMT and it is road safe if they want to close the work order and deliver my vehicle.

Since they cannot give the same, they are taking the easiest way out, rolling back the ECU software, which means I will again be exposed to performance issues and reliability issues (engine knocking & truck like noise).

It is like either reliability & performance or safety, choose what AMT owner wants. To make matters worse, in Thane, considering LBT, high road tax, I paid almost one lac extra for an AMT variant on road and this is what I get.


Thanks & Regards,
Sharad Tater
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Old 6th May 2016, 17:13   #26
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajpvrm View Post
You mentioned in your post that the AMT warning light flashed in your car and it was attended to. This surely means that there is/was some issue with the AMT and it was probably not fully addressed. M&M cannot safely claim that the AMT's behavior is normal. Have you checked if all is well on the OBD diagnostics? If you don't have a OBD II reader, you may want to get one.
Yes that was attended and as per service engineer and Zonal head this was due to faulty FDM and they have replaced the FDM. Also I have OBD2 adapter but that wont tell you much in this matter, the max they can do it to tell you the code but what it translates for TUV is not clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sharad Tater shares the following via email:
I have referenced Sharad's case to my zonal head and he already talked to his zonal head with the engineering team looking after the issue. But the issue of engine isolation and abnormal RPM increase with resisting breaking as mentioned by Sharad is very minimal in my case. I have problem of jerks on low speed more prominent.

I have received a call from the Zonal head Mr Ravi few hours back and as per him they treat those jerks as normal product behaviour, just because they don't have any solution to offer right now. But given assurance to engage technical team to get some fix asap. Til then I have to learn to live with it.

Last edited by ezee : 6th May 2016 at 17:14.
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Old 6th May 2016, 17:14   #27
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Harish Vasishta posted this on the TUV facebook group and I am sharing the same here as he is not a forum member. Have masked the vehicle registration number.

Quote:
TUV AMT Concerns & How I took this up with Mahindra Customer Care.
Read from the 1st mail thread for more understanding:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: KUMAR GOKUL <KUMAR.GOKUL@mahindra.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 6:38 PM
To: Harish Vasishta
Cc: CUSTOMERCARE
Subject: RE: TUV300 AMT Issues
Dear Mr Harish,
Greetings from Mahindra & Mahindra!
As discussed your vehicle is pending one final test which will be completed tomorrow morning .
Once this is done I request you to take a trial and revert with your feedbacks .

Thanks & Regards
Gokul Girish Kumar
Area Manager- After Sales
Bangalore AO
Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd.

From: Harish Vasishta [mailto:vasishta.harish@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 May 2016 16:11
To: KUMAR GOKUL <KUMAR.GOKUL@mahindra.com>
Cc: CUSTOMERCARE <CUSTOMERCARE@mahindra.com>
Subject: RE: TUV300 AMT Issues
Gokul,
As discussed yesterday, have left my car to Anant Cars for necessary changes on the ECU remap and other issues as discussed. Could you kindly advice status on this and by when I would get my car after all the fix and test been done?
Rewards,
Harish Vasishta
+919845067313
On 26 Apr 2016 10:01 a.m., Harish Vasishta
<vasishta.harish@hotmail.com> wrote:
Gokul,
Ensure to address this at the earliest as I have parked the vehicle and it is not in use. I'm feeling bad that spending so much money and the vehicle is doing nothing.
Regards,
Harish Vasishta
On 25 Apr 2016 5:29 p.m., KUMAR GOKUL <KUMAR.GOKUL@mahindra.com> wrote:
Dear Mr Harish,
Greetings from Mahindra & Mahindra !
Regret the inconvenience caused .
As discussed with you over the phone we have shared your concern with our technical team , I will let you know as soon as I get a revert on this from the team .
Request your kind understanding and patronage .

Thanks & Regards
Gokul Girish Kumar
Area Manager- After Sales
Bangalore AO
Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd.

On 23 Apr 2016 2:39 p.m., Harish Vasishta <vasishta.harish@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hello All,
This to bring to your notice that, I purchased TUV300 AMT in the month of November 2015 from India Garage, Bangalore. Vehicle number KA-05 MS-XXXX.
The concern which I'm having since few months are.
1. Humming noise near the front wheel. For this India Garage told some resonator and vacuum modulator needs to be replaced. They did that and also ECU was updated. The humming noise concern solved for few days, later the humming noise issue surfaced again and this not yet solved.
2. Left my car for first service to Anant Cars, Bangalore few weeks back. They did the first service and I was shocked after I took the delivery after service. Vehicle has lost power, pickup and gear shift issues. Told the same to Anant Cars again, they insisted to leave the car again and told the ECU has to be updated. They did that and now the vehicle has become useless, 1.5 litre engine is performing as a 800CC vehicle. No pickup, gear shifts are very slow and requires to much of throttle to move the car. 1st and 2nd gear pickup is horrible.
3. I also had told the humming issue to Anant Cars, they told stock of vacuum modulator is not there. This has been more than 15 days and yet no signs of fixing this issue.
Now, I'm thinking did I make a mistake in choosing TUV? Spending a big money and I get this rot has put me in the back seat. I'm worried if all the issues which I have would be addressed with care or not. Do Mahindra value customers and their grievances, or just selling the vehicles is their moto?
Can you people look into this and sort the concerns immediately or what is the option of returning the vehicle as I the customer is very unhappy of these issues.
Regards,
Harish Vasishta
Harish got his car today from the service center and hasn't had a chance to check if all the problems have been sorted out.
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Old 6th May 2016, 17:58   #28
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
Company has refused to solve this issue saying this is feature of TUV AMT transmission. Even after repeated requests, they have refused to give in writing also that maintaining vehicle's speed using software without driver's input is standard transmission feature of TUV.
M&M may call it as hidden cruise control feature albeit without the implementation of brake detection.

Jokes apart, it should be corrected.
Does your TUV lug when you brake? When exactly does it release the clutch (you would have felt it!) when braking?
Basically, the AMT must be using the transmission's output shaft RPM and brake pedal position (in addition to various other inputs) to decide the throttle during coasting. If your TUV is lugging while braking, then the brake pedal sensor (which feeds to AMT's brain) might be faulty.

Last edited by GTO : 8th May 2016 at 15:13. Reason: Language
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Old 6th May 2016, 18:42   #29
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by purohitanuj View Post
M&M may call it as hidden cruise control feature albeit without the implementation of brake detection.

Jokes apart, it should be corrected.
Does your TUV lug when you brake? When exactly does it release the clutch (you would have felt it!) when braking?
Basically, the AMT must be using the transmission's output shaft RPM and brake pedal position (in addition to various other inputs) to decide the throttle during coasting. If your TUV is lugging while braking, then the brake pedal sensor (which feeds to AMT's brain) might be faulty.
Reply as received by Sharad

Brake sensor is fine, as TUV starts downshifting as soon as brake pedal is engaged, how ever during each gear shift when clutch opens and closes the RPM is shot back to 1800+ from 1100 and speed too gets increased accordingly. So if I am braking from 5th gear, it will happen in each gear shift till 1st gear.

Last edited by GTO : 8th May 2016 at 15:13. Reason: Quoted post edited
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Old 6th May 2016, 19:16   #30
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezee View Post
Reply as received by Sharad

Brake sensor is fine, as TUV starts downshifting as soon as brake pedal is engaged, how ever during each gear shift when clutch opens and closes the RPM is shot back to 1800+ from 1100 and speed too gets increased accordingly. So if I am braking from 5th gear, it will happen in each gear shift till 1st gear.
If I understand correctly, the updated AMT firmware is trying to minimize jerks by matching the RPM. This is a known technique in AT.
However, as soon as the clutch closes, the fuel should be stopped to provide engine braking.
Can you please ask that if the shooting up of RPM actually acclerates the vehicle, or does the RPM then drops, or does the RPM remain steady?
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