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Old 10th May 2016, 08:55   #46
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Update from Sharad:

Quote:
Finally I will be able to take home my TUV300 without worrying... Getting my car back tomorrow post wash.

My brake play had deviated hence there was a delay in physical brake and actual brake or sensor getting activated.

Once corrected ECU is getting immediate signal when to brake rpm or speed etc. So now even if the car maintains RPM at gear shift, just one touch to brake pedal is enough to break that acceleration.

I had after market 3M type mats, which reduced accelerator padel's play to 90%, hence reduced signals were going to ECU, So optimum gears were not slotted by the software, proper torque was not maintained and that impacted the ride quality, AMT behavior and reduced my mileage.

One of us reported TUV AMT stopping in the incline, that was discussed. As per Mr Nikhil it was due to overheating protection getting activated for the AMT clutch, Since it's steep incline and for some reason and in load AMT clutch got overheated so it stopped functioning. After 20 mins with temperature dipped it was back to normal


May be Mahindra needs to find out the reason for clutch overheating, like pending software upgrade, clutch or brake calibration or anything else but unfortunately customer was sent back by the service center.

I had the same mat in last three ECU flashing, during visit from R&D techie, during first service and each time engine knocked but no one noticed. The brake issue was not noticed by any.

It all points to one thing - lack of training and knowledge transfer by Mahindra to dealership. Dealership service engineer are as clue less about AMT tech as a customer in distress.

The all sensors calibration should be part of ECU flashing SOP to avoid each customer having different issues post upgrade.

Why should a service engineer return back a customer reporting AMT failure during steep incline just because there is no error code stored in ECU while Mahindra technical team immediately pointed out clutch plate overheating as the culprit. Which means dealership people do not even know all features and tech involved in AMT.

The fault clearly lies with Mahindra, due to their lack of knowledge transfer and training initiatives dealership people are helpless and get a bad reputation as well.

This inconvenienced and completely blew my sanity for past one week, but finally I can relax now. May be if not dealership, train us - your customers Mahindra!

We should know how to use AMT in most optimum way, whenever something happens why it happened and what not to do or what to do.

This is in the best interest of Mahindra too.

By the way latest ECU flashing is category red so all TUVs will be recalled.

Regards
Sharad
Copied from - http://www.tuvclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&p=237#p237
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Old 10th May 2016, 09:01   #47
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

That sounds like good news. Atleast they were able to pin point issues and resolve them. Hoping for a positive update about your car as well.
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Old 11th May 2016, 08:03   #48
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What does the below even mean?

"I had after market 3M type mats, which reduced accelerator padel's play to 90%, hence reduced signals were going to ECU, So optimum gears were not slotted by the software, proper torque was not maintained and that impacted the ride quality, AMT behavior and reduced my mileage."
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Old 11th May 2016, 08:26   #49
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
What does the below even mean?

"I had after market 3M type mats, which reduced accelerator padel's play to 90%, hence reduced signals were going to ECU, So optimum gears were not slotted by the software, proper torque was not maintained and that impacted the ride quality, AMT behavior and reduced my mileage."
That, he floored the A pedal and the pedal couldn't go all the way down, so the ECU was getting reduced signals.

I really do not know which smilie to put in here, this or this

What if someone is driving on part throttle, ECU will get 50% signal and hence proper gears won't be employed.

Similar misinformation was shared here (Mahindra TUV300 : Official Review) to which Rehaan replied and cleared doubts in this post of his.

M&M still have sometime to go as far as AMT in 3 cylinder goes. They should accept it & work on it.

Last edited by Sheel : 11th May 2016 at 08:27.
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Old 11th May 2016, 09:25   #50
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Update on my problems:

I have updated elsewhere I am copying same here as well.

Quote:
Update to the problems reported:

As per prior schedule of test drive of my TUV by Mr Santhanam (Zonal Head - North West Customer Care), I went to Sterling Motor Company service centre at around 4.30 PM. I started explaining problems being faced and meanwhile technicians adjusted the break play as reported in Sharad's TUV.

First Problem:
It was around a 10 km test drive where I explained him about a jerk while downshifting from 2nd to 1st gear, which he also noticed and feedback taken as an input for technical team to come up with any possible solution.

Second Problem:
I had reported a slow pickup sometimes followed by a jerk or sudden clutch release in slow traffic movement. Which fortunately happened once while Mr Santhanam was driving but he refused to accept as a problem and started giving excuses about this happened due to he shifted from manual to auto mode and blah blah...!

Third Problem:
Increased RPM for about 2-3 seconds while gear upshifts and you feel you need to break suddenly in the middle of shifting in AMT mode. Problem could not be simulated as they had adjusted break play and problem may have vanished due to that.

Fourth Problem:
Unwanted slow jerks or slow pulling pushing in low speeds while driving in 1st or 2nd gear, also while braking downshifts are not smooth. Problem is still there and inconsistency is noticed in slow speeds but unfortunately its almost impossible to simulate problem every time when you feel to repeat, so despite of feeling the problems he denied noticing any such behaviour.

Then we test drove a test drive and a brand new vehicle as well and notice first problem is standard across all TUV AMTs. But those TUVs were a bit smooth while in low speeds in comparison of mine.

After test drives we had a discussion session of around 1 hour, where he explained characteristics of AMT and why customers need to be educated for handling of AMT. He also mentioned that in AMTs auto mode is not suppose to be used while driving in hills, as it could overheat the clutch system, resulting in early burning of clutch plates. When I asked him about why customer is being made responsible for clutch plates burning in AMT models when there is no clutch pedal, he replied since no other companies offer such warranty and people can abuse clutch system in many ways (like driving AMT with both feets - one on break and other on accelerator) thats why we also do not offer such warranty. But assured of all possible help in any such condition.

TUV being jerky in slow speeds - It has been reported by almost all reviewers and customers too but it seems Mahindra is reluctant to accept that as a problem and classifying it as an AMT behaviour, whereas AMT from other competitors are way better than what we have in TUV. But Mahindra is overconfident by its success of Scorpio and XUV and despite of knowing that how customers suffered in early days of these models, they feel things will stabilise over a period of time, overlooking the difference in the presence of social media then and now.

Best of Luck Mahindra !!
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Old 11th May 2016, 11:04   #51
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

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Originally Posted by ezee View Post
Update on my problems:
..
He also mentioned that in AMTs auto mode is not suppose to be used while driving in hills, as it could overheat the clutch system, resulting in early burning of clutch plates
..
Only 1 problem acknowledged and rest passed off as feature/non-issue. Did involving Mahindra really help in your case? Even the dealer was doing the same thing trying to justify every quirk as a 'feature'?

A person goes for an automatic for the convenience in rush hour traffic. TUV AMT seems to be the exact opposite! Going by your experience it appears quite a handful in traffic. Couple that to an incline and you now have the added burden to save your clutch as apparently AMT is not suited for 'hilly' roads.

So basically TUV AMT is unfit for Delhi - given the innumerable flyovers here and the usual bumper to bumper traffic everywhere.

Really hope you get a resolution soon. Keep sharing the updates!
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Old 11th May 2016, 12:50   #52
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
After test drives we had a discussion session of around 1 hour, where he explained characteristics of AMT and why customers need to be educated for handling of AMT. He also mentioned that in AMTs auto mode is not suppose to be used while driving in hills, as it could overheat the clutch system, resulting in early burning of clutch plates.
1. So who currently does that? Does any manufacturer hold a driving classes for the folks buying the AMT vehicles?
2. What is the point in AMT if you cannot use it (automation) while driving. Manufacturers can cook up the same excuses when clutch is burnt due to crawling rush hour traffic!
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Old 11th May 2016, 14:24   #53
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

M&M's 'solution' sounds too much like the "your umbrella will last a lifetime as long as you protect it from rain and sunlight" joke I heard as a kid!
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Old 12th May 2016, 18:07   #54
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

It seems Mahindra has discontinued the TUV AMT with mHawk80 engine. Because its no more listed under specifications page of official Mahindra TUV website.

Since launch they knew that 81 bhp AMT has problems with its jerky and underpowered behaviour and this is what prompted them to give it a rest, as no more refinement was possible.

But existing AMT owners like me is now feeling cheated as my TUV is just 3 months old and it has been discontinued, there will be no more takers of 81 bhp AMT as a better performing 100 bhp is available at a premium of Rs 8000 only.

Mahindra should come-up with some kind of upgrade option for existing AMT owners and not leaving them in the middle. I am sure there will be a lot of takers of 100 bhp upgrade even if we need to pay the difference amount too.
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Old 12th May 2016, 22:01   #55
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

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Originally Posted by ezee View Post
It seems Mahindra has discontinued the TUV AMT with mHawk80 engine. Because its no more listed under specifications page of official Mahindra TUV website.
The pricelist confirms it too - "Prices valid till stocks last"

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Old 12th May 2016, 22:30   #56
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Sad to see M&M going the Bajaj 2 wheeler way. Launch a product, test it on unsuspecting customer/s, issue/s gets identified over a period of time, discontinue that product and launch an upgraded product.

Stop using your loyal customer as guinea pigs.
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Old 12th May 2016, 22:46   #57
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Sad to see M&M going the Bajaj 2 wheeler way. Launch a product, test it on unsuspecting customer/s, issue/s gets identified over a period of time, discontinue that product and launch an upgraded product.

Stop using your loyal customer as guinea pigs.
M&M test engineers should be taken to task. They are the ones who are entrusted with the work of testing a new car under all conditions and then reporting back the shortcomings to the production team to fine tune the car before mass production. If production team gets no feedback, they are clueless as to where to tweak.

TUV300 is one hell of a looker with the boxy/robust old world SUV charm about it. Hope the 100 hp engine mends things. Now, one more thing left to do is to don bigger wheels and it would be in business. Recently I saw a black one shod with big wheels and what a looker it was. If one wants a commanding high-seating SUV (head and shoulder above the current crop of miniSUVs) but one does not want big full-size SUVs like Scorpio/Safari then this IS the car to go for.
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Old 12th May 2016, 22:52   #58
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Mahindra should stop using customers as guinea pigs. In this case they need to address AMT owners. They have really been used as guinea pigs and they need to be compensated. I hope mHawk 100 has addressed issues of AMT.
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Old 20th May 2016, 10:57   #59
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

The horror stories continue with TUV 300 AMT - as posted by spasenthil on another forum:

Quote:
Dear All,

Having a pride in owning a TUV 300, was waiting for the most aviated version of Mahindra and took delivery of an automatic version by the end of march 2016 by replacing my special edition bolero model 2014. But after owning this tanker, i was disappointed from the first day after taking delivery. By noticing the transmission issue, i have taken the vehicle to the CAI service center thrice up till today from the date of delivery with the following issues.

Hearing a crank noise in 1 st gear.
Very slow response in first gear.
Having Jerk in 1 st and 2 nd gear.
Having problem in 2 nd gear,

Hearing a crank noise in 1 st gear.

The first problem which i felt was the crank sound in the first gear. While accelerating the vehicle to a speed of 70 to 80 the auto shift upgrades to the top gear having no problem. But when reducing the speed from 80 to parking condition the gear starts to reduce 5 4 3 2 and 1. At the end from 2 to 1 i was able to here a clear noise in downshift. This problem was reported to the service person and i was advised that this crank noise will be cleared automatically before 1 st service (3000 KM ). My vehicle has crossed the first 3000 KM mark but the sound is audible more than the initial.

Very slow response in first gear.

The other problem is the very slow response in the first gear. I usually use my vehicle in hill station on my business visit to Kothagri and coonoor tea industries. while having a drive on hill stations having problem in first gear. while moving the vehicle after a stop on the way due to traffic condition i usually prefer the manual mode in hill stations, by enc ageing the first gear and if i release the break the vehicle doesn't move forward instead in reverses un-conditionally. Pointing this issue to the service person, he replayed me by showing a video from mahindra and instructing me to use the parking brake whenever we attempt to stop a vehicle on hill station and explained an automated gear box can function only this much. But by noticing the other brand automated version ( Innova Crysta ) i had a test drive but the problem which persist in TUV is not at all felt. For your information i am owning a automatic WV jetta and Honda Jaaz too.

Having Jerk in 1 st and 2 nd gear.


While moving the vehicle initially the vehicle doesn't move smoothly instead of i felt the jerk very hard and day to day increased. On the second week i took the vehicle to the service center and got replaced by ECM software update.

Having problem in 2 nd gear,

Problem in 2 nd gear is usually felt in down shifting. For example if the vehicle is accelerated to a speed up to 70 or 80 the gears up shifts with no problem. But when i reduce the speed to 20 KM the gears down shifts gradually from 5 4 3 and 2. From the particular 2 nd gear if i attempt to accelerate the response is very very low and the vehicle attempt to drift suddenly losing the control. This problem is also sorted out by the third time of inspection.

Finally want to know about the first two problems which is not yet cleared upto date from Tuesday where the vehicle is still in the work shop. Owning a brand new vehicle and having so many problems particularly in transmission is putting me on stress. So let me get immediate reply on this issue.
One more by mamtaditya, has been posted as AMT Failure - Here

Quote:
As my T8 AMT (7500km done) is lying at service center for major failure in AMT section, it will take couple of days to get it fixed. As usual local service center is good with me but design of AMT is pathetic which is beyond their control. I got a chance to escalate it and take up this upgrade to 100BHP with a senior Mahindra executive. In short upgrade is not possible technically and legally.
Its fine, but i requested them to do something to refine AMT section. I have tested couple of AMT cars of other brand after having problem with mine, none is jerky, unreliable and unpredictable like my T8 AMT. Its bad decision at my part!! Thx

Last edited by ezee : 20th May 2016 at 11:00.
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Old 21st May 2016, 13:20   #60
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Mahindra showed true colors:

I had AMT warning light yesterday and decided to write them again and within 1 hours I got a call from Zonal Head Mr. Santhanam (dealing with my case). I started explaining problems to him about AMT warning light along with some other issues and a reply of my last mail sent where he promised to get back about technical and legal feasibility of possible upgrade to 100 bhp.

First off all he straight away denied any such possibility of upgrade because as per them the mHawk80 engine and AMT system is free of any defects, despite of N number of failures reported. Also when reported the AMT warning light issue he said it could a minor one (whereas in owners manual is clearly written that if you see that light blinking, immediately stop vehicle and contact service centre) and said until and unless you are able to simulate that in front of us we are not going to help.

By then the arguments were turned into a heated conversation (deliberately did that to make him speak truth). Meanwhile I asked him about proof of all maintenance activities performed in my vehicle and all recalls. He said no proofs are to be given to customer and recalls are made public until there is threat to driver/passengers life So as per them Jerks, FDM and Modulator was not a threat to our lives. Also proofs will be given to court only.

So he started loosing patience and tried to run away from every possible responsibility and when I said take back your vehicle and refund me, then he said you purchased vehicle and its your headache to deal with now. Neither we will upgrade/update nor we will take back vehicle. He also said you are only few of those who want to create a social propaganda only and don't have any such problems (after spending 11 Lacs taking these pain). Then he said you are free to goto court and do whatever you want to do.

So guys Mahindra showed their true colors today by just running away from all such AMT failures and a faulty cheap vehicle they manufactured. But its not the end for us we as a group decided now to go formally and very soon reporting matter to SIAM and then to National Consumer Forum against Mahindra for selling a defected/faulty TUV 300 AMT which is dangerous to drive.

Those who want to come along, are welcome !
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