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Old 28th May 2016, 03:42   #76
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

For Mahindra to take this more seriously can we add poll on thread with options like - are you facing issues with your TUV300 AMT etc.

Lets force Mahindra to do right by the customers.
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Old 28th May 2016, 16:15   #77
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezee View Post
in first gear TUV is programmed to move at speed of 9kmph and in reverse at 7kmph without throttle input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Edit: 9 kmph creep forward and 7 kmph creep reverse is TOOOOOO high.
As my signature says, we own a Maruti Alto K10 AMT and it is now just shy of completing an year with us and has 10341 kms on the odometer.

As I have seen the figures for speed mentioned without accelerator input in both Forward & Reverse, I went out and checked the same on my K10 AMT.

Forward & Reverse without any accelerator input is between 7-9kmph constant with no jerks or vibrations and it'll keep chugging for life (See the attached images). I'll attach the OBD 2 reader and get the exact speed and post it here.

Forward (1st gear)
TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them-forward.jpg

Reverse gear
TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them-reverse.jpg

In case of bumper-to-bumper traffic where the speed is almost 2-3 kmph all one requires to do is modulate the brake pressure and it moves as instructed without any fuss.

Here's what I am coming to a conclusion post my 40 kms drive (read TD of TUV 3OO AMT) is the mating of engine:gearbox (read AMT) is not good. The 84BHP engine is not able to cope up well and not doing justice for what it is made hence I feel Mahindra have realised the mistake of choice of AMT + engine which is making them plonk the same AMT (after correcting the logic or ratios) to a 100BHP engine.

The SA was giving me gyaan that "Saar, that is how AMT is programmed". I asked to step into my Alto K10 and took him for a drive on the same road that I took the TUV on.

Mahindra is runing the car with their poor problem resolving techniques and top-management staff who have no idea how to deal with customers.

The other issue that I seen reported my Mr Abhinav & Sharad is Downshifting too fast dropping momentum which is not anticipated by other road users.

My dad and wife (also me) have now got used to this feature on the AMT. If I am cruising at 50 kmph @ 5th gear and I am planning for an overtake, all I do is press the Accelerator pedal more than normal and it falls to 4th gear but somehow realizes that the acceleration required is more so it further drops to 3rd but the beauty here is the RPM shoots up rather than lose of momentum as experienced by them. My K10 howls as the RPM goes to 4-5K and post the overtaking move, I ease the throttle which then upshift's to 5th gear.

I didn't try this in the TUV 3OO though. Will definitely go back and try to see how the TUV behaves.

In the K10 it was only the inital 100 kms that we required to get used to after which it is a breeze for both my dad and wife who are the major users of the car.
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Old 2nd June 2016, 19:42   #78
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

The Story of Faulty TUV 300 AMT does not end here, Please read below:

As expressed by Mr Govind Raju from Bangalore on another website.


Sub: Malfunctioning of AMT system in my vehicle Mahindra TUV 3OO AMT –T8 version.

Vehicle No: KA-41-MA-3379, Presently in India Garage Workshop ( Peenya branch).

Ref: ID 15090039, Repair Order No: RO17D001332 INDIA GARAGE PEENYA.
Vehicle handed over the India Garage on dated: 13.05.2016

****

The Said vehicle is purchased by me on dated: December 2015 paying in full cash and the delivery of vehicle is obtained on 16th Jan 2016. Since then I have driven this vehicle with utmost care and I have faced software problems related to AMT while on driving. Some of the incidents which I faced are very dangerous. It had encountered while crossing railway track, climbing the upsteep road and even in flat roads.

In the first 1000 kms of driving, I have to face problems related to reversing the vehicle. While reversing, the vehicle suddenly stops and this problem was rectified after 3 visits to the workshop. They (workshop people) too have experienced this problem. After the first service, I have to face problems related to AMT system. While on the drive, I have notice that the warning lamp illuminates and all of the sudden the display light of the gear & the lights in the odometer disappears. The photo is sent to the technician through what’s up.

When I noticed the MT warning lamp for the first time, I just gave attention to it and I rode the vehicle very carefully at low speed and that too on the peak hour. But at the signal light, I just brought it to neutral & found that the vehicle power immediately went off and I noticed that the both the display needle rose to the other end and the display gear disappeared. I tried many times to restart the engine but failed. As the vehicle was in neutral it was pulled to the side with the help of police man. I tried to call workshop people at 9 pm but failed. After 20 minutes of total rest, I tried to restart and it started and carefully I went home. Next day, I took the vehicle to the workshop and again I noticed malfunctioning in the AMT system. But this time, I didn’t stop the vehicle nor did I pull to neutral position. I know that when I pull to neutral or if I touch the gear for extra power, the vehicle cuts off & thereby I have to extra cautious. The workshop people too noticed the problem while on test drive.

Later, I was told that it was rectified by the Mahindra team personnel itself and that the problem is solved. But it was not. And I have to face same problem after few days while on driving on the highway. This time I brought the vehicle to the low speed and I noticed that the vehicle runs even in this condition. I travelled almost to my destination and on the traffic less pipe line road at laggere, I just tried to know what will happen when I apply 3rd gear on the uphill (- sign) to take extra pickup. I applied manual transmission 3rd gear for extra pickup but landed on the jerk. I found that the vehicle power disappears as soon as to put gear for extra power while on the move or to the neutral when you stop the vehicle. I am really lucky as I didn’t try on the highway. And it is definitely dangerous.

Again I have give time to rest and again it regains its conscience and again it restarts and again it runs and yet again I have to face same problem. And yet again, I have to take the vehicle to the workshop and tell them story. Off course, it happened again and I took the vehicle in the same condition and showed it to the technician. The thing is that when it occurs, the vehicle runs but we should be cautious that not to touch gear for the extra power while on the run or put it to neutral at the stop condition. Also, I have spoken to GM Anand, AGM Hamid, Team leader Dilip & others.

Please I don’t want to take risk and put my life in it. It is very, very dangerous on the highway especially when you face malfunctioning in the AMT system. Even if it is rectified, I do have psychological fear. All I request is to give me a new vehicle with gear option or exchange to other vehicle which I prefer or I request to refund the money. For the past 16 days, I am waiting for the reply/ feedback from your side. Now the vehicle is ready and asking me to take it. But I am insisting them to acknowledge my letter which states that if same problems related to AMT software reoccurs, company should take away the vehicle and return my hardened money/ or exchange it to new vehicle .
Even the mileage is crap. I am getting around 9 kms / litre.

(K.R. GOVINDARAJU)

--------------------------------------------------------

Now my incident:

The list of faults are getting longer day by day and Mahindra has been absolutely silent on these matters. Just got my TUV AMT back today from Sterling Motor Gurgaon after I reported problems in the working of AMT. A technical team from Chennai lead by Mr Ashim Verma, Ajay Pillai and Sameer Mishra headed by Mr. S Santhanam (Zonal Head North West) and Mr Ravi Khurana (Head Delhi NCR) from Customer Service department concluded tests on my TUV and found everything absolutely normal despite of feeling jerks, rpm rev up and downshifting noises.

They are classifying everything as AMT feature and not taking up as a manufacturing faults, just because they don't have any possible solution to these problems. They have already discontinued the mHawk80 engine option for T8 AMT and now differing with any possible upgrade options to existing mHawk80 owners.

Last edited by ezee : 2nd June 2016 at 19:52.
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Old 2nd June 2016, 20:01   #79
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

The mHAWK 80 in AMT is not discontinued and is made on order on T8 trim and standard on T6 trim.
Source: Brochure.
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Old 2nd June 2016, 20:17   #80
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidindica View Post
The mHAWK 80 in AMT is not discontinued and is made on order on T8 trim and standard on T6 trim.
Source: Brochure.
That "Made To Order" word was changed on website after AMT owners started insisting about their decision. Earlier it was not there and pricing page had a line "T6 AMT and T8 AMT are available till stock lasts". They have removed that too to misguide existing owners that they are still selling that engine varient.

Tell me "Who in this World will buy a under powered TUV just to save Rs 8000/- ?". I have challenged Zonal Head North West that show me 10 sales of TUV AMT mHawk80 in the month of July, 16 and I will take all my complaints back. But he just smiled and sensed my question. Mahindra cheated and still cheating by making us fool by doing these childish acts.
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Old 4th June 2016, 22:27   #81
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Hello,
I also bought a tuv300 AMT (mhawk80) few days ago. Its a March 2016 model as decoded by VIN number. The odometer stands around 1300 kms right now.

Today when I started the car again, after driving it for few kms and parking it, the speedometer needle got stuck in 180 and there was warning light in the console which was AMT warning light. I switched off the car and then again switched it on, now the needle was fine but the light was still on. I once again switched off the vehicle, popped up the hood to take a look and found that the coolant level was at the minimum level. I locked the vehicle and then again unlocked it and the warning light went away. I thought of driving it till my home. Similar things happened again on my way and i once again switched off the vehicle, locked it and then again unlocked it, the light went away again. Now I will take the vehicle tomorrow to the service center.

Now I have the following concerns : -

The coolant level was at minimlum level in a new car. Is it normal or is it something very big to worry ?

Reading all the posts regarding the AMT woes has scared me now. What could be the possible reasons for AMT warning to glow in a new vehicle ?

Last edited by Piyush46 : 4th June 2016 at 22:29.
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Old 4th June 2016, 23:07   #82
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezee View Post
That "Made To Order" word was changed on website after AMT owners started insisting about their decision. Earlier it was not there and pricing page had a line "T6 AMT and T8 AMT are available till stock lasts". They have removed that too to misguide existing owners that they are still selling that engine varient.

Tell me "Who in this World will buy a under powered TUV just to save Rs 8000/- ?". I have challenged Zonal Head North West that show me 10 sales of TUV AMT mHawk80 in the month of July, 16 and I will take all my complaints back. But he just smiled and sensed my question. Mahindra cheated and still cheating by making us fool by doing these childish acts.
ezee, just to be honest with you if you ask Mahindra to give you a new car because the AMT in your current one is flawed/not designed to work well/XYZ reasons of defect, there are more chances of they doing something about it, if you hit them with 'You launched a more powerful TUV for just 8 thousand rupees price difference without telling me and hence I want the new TUV', your case turns out very weak.

Engine power has got nothing to do with your problem, it is the Gearbox and AMT combo that you guys ( Mahindra as well as you) should be focusing on.

Last edited by humyum : 4th June 2016 at 23:08.
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Old 9th June 2016, 13:57   #83
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Okay, here is the bad news. The party is OVER.


Today while driving to work, the AMT malfunction light turns amber and the car comes in neutral gear on its own and refuses to get into manual or AMT mode.

I waited for a while turning the car off. Luckily I was on the extreme left side and did not cause a traffic jam. The worst part was the car was stuck on a gradient. After waiting for about 2 minutes I switched the ignition on and saw the gear indicator moving from N to A1. Immediately started the engine and drove to work which was only a kilometer away.

On reaching work, called the road assistance and they will be picking up my car in next 60 minutes.

TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them-img_20160609_1338251.jpg

Truly regretting going for Mahindra at this point of time at least. Any inputs from you guys on this and how to deal with Mahindra, I will appreciate.
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Old 9th June 2016, 14:17   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaurusAl View Post
Okay, here is the bad news. The party is OVER.


Today while driving to work, the AMT malfunction light turns amber and the car comes in neutral gear on its own and refuses to get into manual or AMT mode.

I waited for a while turning the car off. Luckily I was on the extreme left side and did not cause a traffic jam. The worst part was the car was stuck on a gradient. After waiting for about 2 minutes I switched the ignition on and saw the gear indicator moving from N to A1. Immediately started the engine and drove to work which was only a kilometer away.

On reaching work, called the road assistance and they will be picking up my car in next 60 minutes.

Attachment 1515971

Truly regretting going for Mahindra at this point of time at least. Any inputs from you guys on this and how to deal with Mahindra, I will appreciate.
Welcome to the group of frustrated #TUV300 AMT owners. Sooner or later everyone is suffering from one or another problems.

Exactly similar problem had been reported by V Menon here

http://tuvclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=41
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Old 9th June 2016, 14:31   #85
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Dear all - I have been silently following the developments in this thread. Your comments are extremely informative, as they very clearly provide the various AMT related failure mode definitions, which I have recorded in matrix form. This study clearly defines and indicates the ICA (interim corrective action) and the PCA (permanent corrective action) required to be implemented to provide customer delight!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

PS: there is one failure mode which none of you has posted so far. I wonder why. .
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Old 15th June 2016, 15:52   #86
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
[b][u]

PS: there is one failure mode which none of you has posted so far. I wonder why. .
Sir please enlighten us, which one is remaining now

Update-
I got the vehicle back after 3 days. The team Mahindra has assured me it won't happen again, fingers crossed.

The whole experience was however very pleasant. Right from road assistance to the service adviser and the workshop manager kept updating about the situation. I was given a loner XUV to use till I got the car back.

On inquiring, the service manager showed me a transmission bolt which he claims had come lose and hence it interfered with the creep function of the vehicle resulting in malfunction light turning on. According to him there is nothing wrong with AMT system. I don't know how true is that. Will have to wait and watch how the car performs from hereon. Will keep updating as usual.
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Old 18th June 2016, 11:49   #87
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I am taking a guess here, but I feel the whole bunch of issues in AMT seem to be caused by minor stuff like some bolt being loose or a single part malfunctioning. This seems to be the reason why M&M technician's seem cool while handling them [I m a s/w developer and can relate to this experience where minor logic flaws in the code cause my client to be jumpy and me thinks its just a minor issue qhile fixing the same nonchalantly].
This doubt for AMT is the reason I went for a MT. No troubles with it so far.
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Old 30th August 2016, 23:49   #88
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Writing this after my couple of test drives done in TUV 3OO AMT.

First of all, this is the basic AMT system that is available in the TUV. When we say basic, there isn't any drive modes- Sports Mode, Crawler mode, Hill hold mode or kick down etc. This means that there is a clear compromise in terms of driving when the terrain changes and its only the capability of driver will help negotiate roads.

Issue No 1 - Car moving forward from stand still:
You can’t stop Car moving forward until you bring to neutral in signal (something similar to fully automatic). Since its moving forward, it means that clutch engagement is happening and you need to step on the brake pedal to stop moving. And when you brake, you are trying to override clutch engagement and this in a long run will lead to clutch disc wear.
Probable Solution: When the car is in standstill (read 0 KMPH and 0 Acc pedal input), the gear can be in 1st, but clutch should not get engaged. In this case, until you give input in Acc pedal, clutch should still be in disengaged condition and will progressively engage upon Acc pedal input. In this case is no chance of Clutch over riding and problem of holding brake pedal in signal will be eliminated.
In case of AT, there is no option but in case of AMT the problem of car moving forward can be controlled, which is not done.

Issue No 2 - Roll Back in gradient:
Car rolls back very clearly and it’s a serious issue for new drivers in gradient. Even on a mild gradient, the car doesn’t move forward without few inches of rolling back. When the gradient is little steep, the issue is severe. This with erratic behaviour of clutch, the issue gets multiplied (more on this later). Though by and large roll back is a perennial issue in AMT it’s not something which can’t be solved. Currently Mahindra teaches customers to overcome these issues by using handbrake. This is a bad practice, and is not something expected from a passenger car company. Irony is, TUV does has ABS and using the same system the issue of roll back could have been arrested.
Probable Solution: When you have ABS, you have poll sensors, poll wheels to detect the movement of wheel closely. And by all means when a roll back is sensed, brakes can be energised with a relay. With this you can hold the car until you press Acc pedal. Now when you press Acc pedal, the relay reeases brakes, cutch engages and car moves forward without any issues. Normally if an ABS is omitted we can say that’s because of cost. But Hill hold in AMT should be a “Must have safety feature”, which is omitted for unknown reasons (Duster has this).

Issue No 3 - Erratic behaviour of system when moving forward in 1st gear:
There is a clear clutch engagement issue and never know how it will behave irrespective of Acc pedal input. In all my test drives, more than couple of times, the car almost went to hit the front car / two wheeler and need to brake it in a panic way just to stop hitting. This could probably be a issues of improper CAN communication and may be further due to faulty or more sensitive sensors and harnesses which is not withstanding the Indian condition. In all my experience majority issues were like sensor’s failures, harnesses back out and this is a serious issue and in a long run.
Probable solution: It’s known to all. Until the company has the intention to launch a fault free product and takes time to validate we will have these half baked products.

Verdict: Stay away from TUV 300 AMT for some time, until the issues are sorted out completely.

Disclaimer : I have working experience in 6 speed / 14 speed Automated transmissions / retro fitment and their validation and have hands on fitted/overseen fitment of these units in more than 100 buses. So with the knowledge gathered over a period of time in AMT, this is shared.

I have no grievances towards Mahindra even though I have hit myself in my forehead, when I opened the driver door in the second time.

I am missing TUV for these reasons but otherwise I wanted to own myself a TUV in next couple of months.

Last edited by Ashley2 : 31st August 2016 at 00:05.
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Old 31st August 2016, 11:04   #89
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Issue No 2 - Roll Back in gradient:
Car rolls back very clearly and itís a serious issue for new drivers in gradient. Even on a mild gradient, the car doesnít move forward without few inches of rolling back. When the gradient is little steep, the issue is severe. This with erratic behaviour of clutch, the issue gets multiplied (more on this later). Though by and large roll back is a perennial issue in AMT itís not something which canít be solved. Currently Mahindra teaches customers to overcome these issues by using handbrake. This is a bad practice, and is not something expected from a passenger car company. Irony is, TUV does has ABS and using the same system the issue of roll back could have been arrested.
Probable Solution: When you have ABS, you have poll sensors, poll wheels to detect the movement of wheel closely. And by all means when a roll back is sensed, brakes can be energised with a relay. With this you can hold the car until you press Acc pedal. Now when you press Acc pedal, the relay reeases brakes, cutch engages and car moves forward without any issues. Normally if an ABS is omitted we can say thatís because of cost. But Hill hold in AMT should be a ďMust have safety featureĒ, which is omitted for unknown reasons (Duster has this).
I think you'll find that it's not possible to implement Hill Hold without ESP. The ABS unit cannot actually apply any pressure on the braking system on its own - it's only the ESP module that can do that. Hence, only the variants of the Duster with ESP have Hill Hold control.
https://www.cdn.renault.com/content/...e_brochure.pdf
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Old 31st August 2016, 18:17   #90
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Default Re: TUV300 AMT problems & Mahindra's inability to solve them

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I think you'll find that it's not possible to implement Hill Hold without ESP. The ABS unit cannot actually apply any pressure on the braking system on its own - it's only the ESP module that can do that. Hence, only the variants of the Duster with ESP have Hill Hold control.
https://www.cdn.renault.com/content/...e_brochure.pdf
Hill Hold in comparison to ESP is a simple feature, as without Acc pedal input the car should not move and you use service brakes to stop that.

Though Duster has as a combo, its absolutely not necessary to have both ESP and Hill hold together rather one can exist without other.
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