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Old 11th August 2016, 19:42   #1
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Default Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

I am the owner of a Skoda. Yes I am (have become) a glutton for punishment. This is a multi-part play with several supporting actors and a superstar. This is the story of a Skoda Octavia A7.

The story started sometime in 2013 when I bought my stage - a brand new Skoda Octavia Elegance (Petrol) DSG. The stage was well setup. And then the show began, a few days later.

Act 1, Scene 1:- The sunroof
The sunroof had a distinct rattle. A rattle that would go away if you tilted it. So I thought I would wait until the end of the scene (read first service / check up)

During the service, the stagehands examined the sunroof from every angle. Prescribed some lubrication. Worked perfectly for a few days before said actor burst on to stage once again.

Act 1, Scene 2:- The one-eyed wonder
Soon the sunroof was joined by a compatriot. the HID bulb. This was soon after 6 months and I was quoted an astronomical signing fee of close to Rs. 16,000/- if I wanted to replace this actor with another. You see the actor came along with agent and secretary and bodyguard (read headlight assembly).

Bollocks I said. The actor only. Quickly the signing amount was reduced to Rs. 6000/- I paid, they ordered and soon another actor was on his way. It will take a few days / weeks they said. All our actors come from Aurangabad.

Luckily, the lawyer in me thought to read the script again and there between dialogues of warranty and liability lay one sentence:- For headlight bulb the warranty was 6 months except for HID bulbs for which the warranty was 2 years.

Quickly the signing amount was returned and the new actor took his place on the stage.

Act 1, Scene 3:- The dry spell
One day said the Stage, "Peace enough of have you. So no more water for you." Promptly, an established actor - the water pump collapsed. Once again a replacement was procured from Aurangabad. Once again the stage was shut down for a week or so.

Act 1, Scene 1A:- The Sun roof returns
The rattling continued, increasing in frequency. Car sent, lubricant put, rattling gone, rattling returning morning after. Such was the issue that the rattling started immediately after the servicing on occasion.

Finally I had enough. Find me another I said. So back to you know where they went and got me another roof above my head.

Act 1, Scene 4:- Baby when the lights go out
One evening, just before the show began, the stage refused to light up. Just refused. So I asked the friendly neighbourhood jumpstart cable to pitch in.

This happened a total of 6-10 times over a period of one week. Outside Supreme Court, in the market, late at night in an industrial area. Finally, I called you know who, who said you know where we have to get the replacement from. Minimum one week.

A few minutes of (un)controlled aggression later, the battery was promptly replaced the next day. Apparently they found a replacement in Delhi and I began to believe in GOD and miracles.

Act 1, Scene 5:- Turn on the HEAT
For a layman, the bonnet of a car consists of the following:-
1. Engine
2. AC condenser
3. Coolant tank
4. Battery
5. Wiper tank

3 and 4 had already been replaced and the AC condenser was very very upset. So he decided to quit mid-way in the Delhi summer. What joy. It helps the privileged class experience the Delhi summer in its natural glory.

[I am too frustrated to continue with the script so am just going to spell out the details]

Anyway, after another long sojourn my hot car was returned, truant condenser fixed.
Act 1, Scene 6:- Water water everywhere not a drop to drink
Till now the water pump had enjoyed prima donna status and it was not going to let the condenser get away. So it promptly decided to pack up. 1 day after the car came back from (dis)Service.

This time Skoda asked me for Rs. 5000 as towing charges for 15 km (door to door) and then half my salary every km thereafter. You see I had extended warranty but not roadside assistance. No matter that it was a manufacturing defect. Add to that, I stay in South Delhi and the car broke down in Gurgaon.

After a 10 day SPA treatment my car was returned to me. I drove out, slowly, steadily fingers crossed.

If you have read this far, I know you have not come here for these character artists. You've come for Big Daddy, Megatron(ic).

Act 2, Scene 1:- DSG DOA (dead on acceleration)
One fine evening at 9 pm, DSG decided to stop working. Fortunately, I was in the basement parking of my gym. So I left the car and called roadside assistance.

The same spiel of Rs. 5,000/- etc. from three different representatives. So I decided to send an email to Skoda India and International and retire for the night.

Next day, several calls came, each requesting that the car may be moved subject to payment of towing charges etc. To which I had a one-word answer:- DSG.

Promptly, the car was towed and a replacement car provided. It now lies at the workshop awaiting parts.

Way forward
I have tried to mask my frustration and anger in a playful write up above. The fact is Skoda International and Skoda India are well aware that the DSG 200 is a defective productive. They know it does not function in hot climate and is prone to failure. However, they have knowingly chosen to suppress this fact and sell cars in India.

I have written to them to either replace the vehicle or refund the money. Needless to say I have not heard from them. I have however, received an email from Skoda Auto A.S (Skoda international) trying to push the buck to the Indian importer. What they do not realise is they are responsible. They may claim arms length but they cannot deny the fact that Mr. Christian Cahn von Seelen, head of corporate strategy as Skoda Auto a.s. is also a director of Skoda Auto India. Other directors with links to Skoda a.s. appear to be Ronald Paul Cowen and Lubos Josef Hradecky.

I am going to keep updating this thread as and when further developments occur. I only urge everyone to spread the word and get the DSG failure viral. So that existing owners can take action and prospective buyers can avoid.

I am also hoping that the car manufacturer liability bill gets passed in this session of parliament. More power to us.

Cheers and I will be back with more.

Last edited by GTO : 12th August 2016 at 12:09. Reason: Removing email addresses
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Old 11th August 2016, 20:05   #2
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

Very sorry to read about the multiple failures and your plight. If this gearbox is failure prone, what's preventing them from using DQ 250 unit in petrol cars? Is it not compatible to be used with petrol engines? Wish we had laws similar to American class action lawsuit.
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Old 11th August 2016, 20:31   #3
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

I don't think anyone of us can actually feel the frustration that your "Actually" going through, But we do get it that its a feeling none of us would want to feel, Its sad to read this, Its not about how expensive or cheap a car is, No one earns money easily and no one is supposed to suffer like this really, Its not rare to people in such situation but whats common to see is how many times the word "Skoda" Has been used among such people, No matter how good their products is, Such stories sure makes us think twice, Whats the topping to all this is how Skoda handles such issues.

Skoda, Not again.. Really.
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Old 11th August 2016, 20:58   #4
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticmonkey View Post
.....
What they do not realise is they are responsible. They may claim arms length but they cannot deny the fact that Mr. Christian Cahn von Seelen, head of corporate strategy as Skoda Auto a.s. is also a director of Skoda Auto India. Other directors with links to Skoda a.s. appear to be Ronald Paul Cowen and Lubos Josef Hradecky.

I am going to keep updating this thread as and when further developments occur. I only urge everyone to spread the word and get the DSG failure viral. So that existing owners can take action and prospective buyers can avoid.

....SNIP......

Cheers and I will be back with more.
Mate, I salute your patience; with Skoda for all the issues you've faced and to actually write out the entire post as a play !

Fate has it that a DQ200 has ended up in the hands of a lawyer...
I sincerely hope that this is where we the consumer fight the good fight and get an actual resolution rather than a band-aid (READ: Gearbox + Mechatronic replacement).

I sincerely respect the technology behind the VAG DSG, but the DQ200 is quite simply the most un-german thing there is - A piece of shoddy engineering.

Team-BHP and all its BHPians are with you...

Cheers !

Sundar

Last edited by GTO : 12th August 2016 at 12:11. Reason: STRICTLY no abusive language, not even indirectly
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Old 11th August 2016, 21:41   #5
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticmonkey View Post
This is the story of a Skoda Octavia A7. One fine evening at 9 pm, DSG decided to stop working.

The fact is Skoda International and Skoda India are well aware that the DSG 200 is a defective productive. They know it does not function in hot climate and is prone to failure. However, they have knowingly chosen to suppress this fact and sell cars in India.
A very appropriately titled thread. The incidences of DSG failure seemed to have gone down, so I'd hoped VAG had finally put their issues to rest.

Sad to know that doesn't appear to be the case, and sadder that it has had to happen to you.

Please keep us posted to the outcome of technical analysis (if any is shared) along with the resolution offered.

To recap, IIRC, the dreaded DSG failures in your DQ200 gearbox were caused by contamination short-circuiting the mechatronics module. This was exacerbated in places with high ambient temperatures, as well as slow moving traffic that didn't cool the transaxle sufficiently with airflow. The resolution was (among other things) a change to mineral oil in the gearbox.

I'm sure we're all curious to know whether the same problem has reared its ugly head in your car, or if its something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rationalist View Post
If this gearbox is failure prone, what's preventing them from using DQ 250 unit in petrol cars? Is it not compatible to be used with petrol engines?
I'm not too certain why VAG are persisting with the DQ200 gearbox and not moving to the DQ250 (which has a higher torque rating of 350 Nm). One reason might be that the DQ200 is somewhat cheaper to make, since its a dry clutch unit, unlike the DQ250 which is a wet clutch, and needs a bit of additional plumbing. The other reason is simply because 7 gears allow for better efficiency through a finer spread of ratios.

The DQ200 is rated for a maximum torque of 250 Nm, and I know the 1.8 TSI engine is tuned to ensure that torque rating is not exceeded.

In fact, VAG have gone the other way and had started mating the DQ200 gearbox with their 1.5 L diesel engines in the Vento/Rapid (not sure if both, or just the Vento).

Given that VAG offer DSG gearboxes only with their turbocharged engines in India, there's little reason why one gearbox should be better than the other since they can both benefit from the broad turbocharged torque curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
But replacement is not an option after 3 years.
They will definitely replace the dsg under warranty.
I agree that expecting a new car is unlikely given the age of the car and our prevailing laws (or absence thereof), and your comment about DSG replaced under warranty is the most likely outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MavericK46 View Post
I sincerely respect the technology behind the VAG DSG, but the DQ200 is quite simply the most un-german thing there is - A piece of shoddy engineering.
Well, I can almost sympathize with the engineers. The DQ200 is a fine piece of engineering... in the lab. It seems to have issues in the real world. I'm in IT, and have experienced the case where I'm utterly confident things will work out just fine and then reality comes and slaps my assumptions/confidence in the face!

But that's where my sympathies end: VAG seem to be doing the minimum possible necessary to address the issue - a recall in markets where laws are stronger, ad-hoc replacements upon failure in countries like ours. I'm not sure why they'd not gone back to the drawing board to make a version 2 of the DQ200 to get it right.
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Old 11th August 2016, 22:01   #6
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

Till people keep buying their products, they will keep dishing out the same level of "service"! I wonder why the Indian market gives preferential treatment to Skoda? It's well known that the company and dealers are 'thick as thieves' that attitude isn't going to change overnight; whatever press releases they may issue. DQ200 is famous for it's failures. Just see how Malaysian clients responded to the DQ200 failure may be we should also unite and stage a protest in front of Skoda Corp office, for them to take notice! I feel any Skoda product is more like a mistress: highly demanding and volatile in temperament!

http://www.motortrader.com.my/news/v...ices-underway/

Last edited by GTO : 12th August 2016 at 13:22. Reason: Please do NOT bring unrelated brands into the discussion
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Old 11th August 2016, 22:47   #7
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

My sympathies with you, felt sad reading the entire post on how major components kept failing one after another and how poorly the entire case was handled by Skoda. They demanded 16k from you for a HID bulb, knowing well in advance that it is covered under the 2 years warranty, this attitutde is beyond hopeless.

As for the DSG, the DQ200 is destined to fail in each and every car it seems, it has failed in some Polo TSi's so with the 1.8 Octavia running a 250NM tune which is the peak limit of this gearbox, it is giving issues in multiple Octavia's. Sunroof rattle is also prevalent in Octavia but till date there has been no resolution.

I have vowed never to touch a VAG car ever, my Vento was okay on the reliability front but i have seen the ethics and rules VAG follows when it comes to helping a customer. Offering warranty on brakes/suspension till 10,000 kms, not doing recalls for 1.6 TDi injector issues, no recalls for DSG woes and bluffing like a hero that they have solved all issues with a switch to mineral oil - i have lost trust on the entire group.

VW/Skoda - if you can not make this unreliable box work in Indian conditions, take the damn thing off sales and offer some thing better. Customers would be willing to pay extra for the DQ250 for its reliability and you would have less disgruntled owners on road but VAG is too rude/arrogant to think about it.

People blaming only Skoda, VW is no different. They offer a better service compared to Skoda but follow the same approach of offering segment lowest warranty on some parts which show how much faith they have in their cars and not doing recalls for parts which they very well know had a manufacturing defect.
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Old 12th August 2016, 00:04   #8
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticmonkey View Post
I am the owner of a Skoda. Yes I am (have become) a glutton for punishment. This is a multi-part play with several supporting actors and a superstar. This is the story of a Skoda Octavia A7.
Wonderful post, dripping with sarcasm and there's nothing better than that to cure frustration temporarily.

Every once in awhile a person comes along and asks why is German engineering flawed? What's the evidence for it? Is there any proof why Team-BHP keeps repeating that German manufacture isn't as reliable as the non-European ones? As an answer almost every few months a consumer much like yourself comes and gives all the evidence that is needed, yet public memory is short lived.

As someone who sometimes begins to imagine how easy a TSi will be to drive, a post like this one immediately squashes anything and everything remotely related to a double clutch gear box. As for the other problems you're facing, it seems to me that you've procured the sourest, most acidic, and mephitic lemon on earth.. found in the grasslands of Wolfsburg.

I would've lost my mind with the amount of issues this has thrown up.. seems the only solution is to cut the losses and sell it away (give up the movie project.. people ain't gonna buy tickets anytime soon), barring any actual solid script and backing by Skoda. Lets hope the stunt double (replacement) can act well until the tantrum throwing action hero can get back on his sprained 7-speed feet.
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Old 12th August 2016, 11:47   #9
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Default re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

mysticmonkey, sorry if I have missed it but was your DSG gearbox oil changed from synthetic to mineral as part of the VAG global service bulletin?
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Old 12th August 2016, 13:27   #10
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

Sorry to hear about your experience. That's quite a long list of failures in only 3 years. How many km up on your car? How many days are they going to return her in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticmonkey View Post
DSG decided to stop working.
This, and some other cases, just reconfirm my doubts. There is no way that VAG has magically solved the DSG's unreliability by changing the oil. It is still a troublesome gearbox that can give up on you anytime.
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Old 12th August 2016, 14:26   #11
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

This is indeed very disheartening. As fellow-members have mentioned, one can't really fathom the suffering you are going through at the moment. I do hope and pray this becomes a thing of the past for you soon.

There was a thread on Skoda's 2016-2017 plans which showed a slight ray of hope but this shuts the door on it.

I had a Vento TDi HL 1.6 and I, now drive, a Skoda Laura (aka Skoda Octavia MK2) DSG with PD engine. Vento was a new purchase and Skoda is a pre-owned vehicle. I can tell you one thing with absolute certainly - I can never shake off the feeling of having a loaded gun pointed to my head while driving a DSG - I can never know when it is going to go off. I guess, sticking to manuals or non- DQ200 boxes is better with VAG vehicles.

It is about time, they took feedback seriously and stopped playing with people's sentiments.
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Old 12th August 2016, 15:01   #12
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

Thank you for the support people. Some moral support goes a long way when you are running on fumes. Legal action will be initiated over the weekend and will update once the bullets have been fired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rationalist View Post
Very sorry to read about the multiple failures and your plight. If this gearbox is failure prone, what's preventing them from using DQ 250 unit in petrol cars? Is it not compatible to be used with petrol engines? Wish we had laws similar to American class action lawsuit.
@Rationalist we have the option. The Consumer Protection Act allows consumer groups to file complaints. Representative suits is another provision in our laws. The fact is that for most people it becomes a really really long drawn process and expensive as well. So most people choose to cut losses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunphilip View Post
A very appropriately titled thread. The incidences of DSG failure seemed to have gone down, so I'd hoped VAG had finally put their issues to rest.

To recap, IIRC, the dreaded DSG failures in your DQ200 gearbox were caused by contamination short-circuiting the mechatronics module. This was exacerbated in places with high ambient temperatures, as well as slow moving traffic that didn't cool the transaxle sufficiently with airflow. The resolution was (among other things) a change to mineral oil in the gearbox.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
mysticmonkey, sorry if I have missed it but was your DSG gearbox oil changed from synthetic to mineral as part of the VAG global service bulletin?
My research indicates that the recall and oil change was pre-2013. Hence the recalls internationally. So the new Octavia should not have had this issue ideally. The fact is Skoda knows there is a problem. They have not been able to fix it. 2 cars or 100 cars do not make a difference. Yet they continue to sell this product holding them out to be of quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
Wonderful post, dripping with sarcasm and there's nothing better than that to cure frustration temporarily.

I would've lost my mind with the amount of issues this has thrown up.. seems the only solution is to cut the losses and sell it away (give up the movie project.. people ain't gonna buy tickets anytime soon), barring any actual solid script and backing by Skoda. Lets hope the stunt double (replacement) can act well until the tantrum throwing action hero can get back on his sprained 7-speed feet.
The stunt double comes with its own set of problems, most of which are comical. Like three stage window roll up etc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sorry to hear about your experience. That's quite a long list of failures in only 3 years. How many km up on your car? How many days are they going to return her in?
It was at 47083 at the time of being put on the flat bed. No idea of the time. I call every alternate day to confirm the schedule but nothing on it.
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Old 12th August 2016, 19:31   #13
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

Really sorry to hear your harrowing experience. As an owner of 1.8 TSI, it made me shudder while going through your terrible saga. Most of the problems you described has already been experienced by other team bhp members and is well documented. Based on these information I had discussed each problems with service manager of Skoda in our city and was assured all the problems had been taken care of. He assured me that problems with the rattling of sunroof was down to closing mechanism which has been already redesigned and they themselves have made these modifications to 2015 prior model.
Problem with the water pump, he mentioned was down to hardening of a O ring which they renewed. Battery has been changed from varta to exide India. Since my car is still in the honeymoon period I am yet to experience any of these problems and hence had to take these explanations on face value.

That leaves me with the dreaded DSG. While I am taking several precautions which I believe will help me in the longevity of the gear box you never know with these unreliable units.

The fact that I have to leave the car with my driver, since I have to relocate to Singapore, just after two months of buying the car and driving only 4000 km's, is literally giving me sleepless nights.

How I wish that I didn't jump to this bandwagon of nightmares of DSG. God help me!
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Old 12th August 2016, 20:45   #14
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

Sorry to hear about our story. Skoda is doing a lot of good will replacements. For one of my friend, who had a 1.8 TSI superb, he encountered a mechatronic failure and Skoda was kind enough to replace it for free. I own a pre-worshipped superb now after hearing my friend's story. Fingers crossed.

Best of luck on the repairs.
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Old 13th August 2016, 09:30   #15
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI: Multiple issues & DSG failure

I was thinking of going for Skoda Superb 1.8 tsi AT L& K. But after reading your story I think I will opt for a different segment much reliable Innova crysta which ticks most of my boxes including extra space and peace of mind. Or I will wait for DSG 6speed diesel Superb. I'm using a Skoda Laura 2012 2.0 CR TDI MT elegance running flawlessly till now. But after sales service was an issue when it needed spare parts
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