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Old 12th December 2016, 10:34   #136
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by govigov View Post
open trunk with foot:

Yes, you really can open the rear trunk with a kicking motion. It is now standard in some cars, yet to make it to India in any of the cars though.
It is there in Superb, you can check out the official review thread, there is a similar video clip posted.

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Old 12th December 2016, 10:51   #137
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by psn View Post
I did get into trouble once because of keyless entry function.
After office, as a habit, I went straight to the boot, without unlocking the car first. I had the key in my laptop bag, so the proximity sensor allowed me to open the boot. I put my bag in the boot, with the key fob in it, and closed the boot shut. After that the doors did not unlock, nor did the boot with the key stuck inside...Ooops!!. I had to leave the car in my office, go home in an auto and next day get the duplicate to open the boot.
Agree. For this very reason the auto manufacturers make a point to specifically mention to have the Keys “in your pocket” and not elsewhere. However they do not stress on the need to have them in the pockets alone. Once (when the car was very new) before starting on a journey I had given a long lecture to my wife on how convenient it was to use the keyless system. For the fear of accidentally pressing a wrong button on the key fob, I had asked wifey to keep it secured in her vanity bag. Wifey entered the car by pressing the request sensor and studiously got seated on the front passenger seat. I approached the driver side door and pressed the request sensor, which failed to respond as the key was out of vicinity. Asked her to open the door from inside by pulling the lever, this blew-off the security siren as the driver door was still locked from inside.

Wifey had to deactivate the siren and then come out of the car and stand beside me to help me open the door. A nice piece of entertainment that day for all bystanders.
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:23   #138
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

I would be paranoid with a proximity sensor type system.

Assume you walk away after closing the doors, which auto lock immediately, how do you know that the car is really locked?

If you get near the car to check, it will automatically unlock the doors.

So you have to leave the key fob far away and then walk to the car to check.

Personally I share this hatred for the keyless system (or more precisely the auto cop type lock) for different reasons than the OP.

I dislike the beeps and millisecond honk when you lock or unlock the doors in an i20 we own. I sometimes come in to or leave my apartment basement parking late nights. Like 3-4 am. I hate disturbing other people with these electronic sounds.

So I searched and found some documentation on how to turn off the sounds when you press the lock/unlock button.

To do this, press and hold the lock button on your key fob for at least four seconds.

Then, while still holding down the lock button, press and hold the panic button.

Release both buttons, and the sound horn will be disabled.

To enable the sound horn again, simply repeat this process.
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:32   #139
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by hangover View Post
I would be paranoid with a proximity sensor type system.

Assume you walk away after closing the doors, which auto lock immediately, how do you know that the car is really locked?

If you get near the car to check, it will automatically unlock the doors.

So you have to leave the key fob far away and then walk to the car to check.
The system which is being discussed here, you need to use the request button on the pull handles to lock/unlock the car. The car gives similar audible/visible confirmation for the action performed. The car doesn't auto-lock/unlock when the key is in the range.
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:36   #140
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

My experience with the keyless push start button on my Ertiga for the past one year.

I was used to the doors unlocking on their own in my A Star when I stopped the car and pulled out the key which I could do in a single motion. Now I have to kill engine and then use the door unlock button to unlock.

I was looking to buy the Zxi version with the normal key and had to upgrade to the Zxi+ with the start stop button due to non availability of the Zxi. Where the Zxi has a cubby hole that can be used to store mobiles and other small knickknacks, I had the start stop button. No cubby hole - minor irritant.

The start stop button is not just a button which starts and stops the engine. When the car is locked, the steering column is also locked. Next time when the car is started, the steering turns ever so slightly by itself mimicking our action of turning the steering wheel while twisting the key in the keyhole to unlock a locked steering column.

It's impossible to lock the car without a key outside the car in your hand.

Unlocking the car is more convenient than the normal system. More so as the Ertiga has the request sensors /buttons on both front doors and the boot.

A strange experience I had with the key -

Usually the spare key is kept safely locked along with other spare keys etc at my home. Whenever we leave on outstation trips the spare key is kept in my wife's hand bag which she carries along with her almost everywhere.

On a recent trip to Ooty I had the strange experience of the car refusing to lock while using the request sensors /buttons even though I had the key in my pocket. I couldn't figure out what was wrong. Sometimes it would work, sometimes it wouldn't. Thinking the sensors / buttons were acting up I made a mental note to check it out on my return. Whenever it didn't work I had to pull out the key from my pocket and lock it using the button on the key.

Finally at one such stop I figured out what went wrong.

If we were making a short stop of say10-15 minutes, wifie wasn't taking her hand bag from the car. The system was sensing the presence of the spare key inside the car and refusing to lock via the door request buttons as a safety measure.

Last edited by Ramon : 12th December 2016 at 11:38.
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Old 12th December 2016, 12:59   #141
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

I have a Dzire Zxi, since the last 4 months, with push button start system. No issues thus far, in fact it's quite convenient. My only concern is that in a car with a weak battery (not the remote battery but the one under the hood), you can always turn on the ignition and request passers by to give you a push and off you go. So, what happens in a button start car? Any gyan on this?
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Old 12th December 2016, 15:33   #142
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by windiesel View Post
I have a Dzire Zxi, since the last 4 months, with push button start system. No issues thus far, in fact it's quite convenient. My only concern is that in a car with a weak battery (not the remote battery but the one under the hood), you can always turn on the ignition and request passers by to give you a push and off you go. So, what happens in a button start car? Any gyan on this?
I have not driven a dzire.

The i20's have a switchblade type laser cut key on its side. This can be used as a regular key.

There is one thing that could be an issue.

If a car with this keyless system is in a crash then I think rescuers may need to first slice the start/stop button wires.

We do not want the engine to be started inadvertently.

It is possible this system is advanced enough to turn itself off in case of a crash. It has enough sensors and everything.
It is a slight worry though.

I think I'll stick with my OHC for long distance driving. I've already disabled the OE anti theft (only a ex-OHC owner knows its value!) and key press lock/unlock. If I do lose its key I know I can do a film style ignition wiring-joining start.

Last edited by hangover : 12th December 2016 at 15:39.
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Old 12th December 2016, 16:48   #143
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramon View Post
My experience with the keyless push start button on my Ertiga for the past one year.

I was used to the doors unlocking on their own in my A Star when I stopped the car and pulled out the key which I could do in a single motion. Now I have to kill engine and then use the door unlock button to unlock.
.
I too own an Ertiga (ZDI+).You can program how you want to unlock your doors. Like manually (the way its is now) or unlock when engine is killed and some other options too. The stalks (trip meter and other one) allows you to do this.
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Old 12th December 2016, 17:09   #144
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by saion666 View Post

However, I find power windows useless too. It doesnt take much effort to roll up and down windows.
Let me give you an example here.
Do you use mobile apps for banking etc? It does not take much effort to go to bank website and get the job done.

But apps make it easy for things to be operated in small screen of mobile device. Similar is the case with keyless entry and go.

I feel the one touch power windows are of immense help, since once you do that you are free to hold your steering wheel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psn View Post

I believe, these days there are a lot of functions that are really not necessary, nor useful in anyway, but will eventually make us used to them, and eventually lazy.
Yes I feel we should take public transport as using cars is making us lazy.
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Old 12th December 2016, 17:26   #145
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by ViMo View Post
I too own an Ertiga (ZDI+).You can program how you want to unlock your doors. Like manually (the way its is now) or unlock when engine is killed and some other options too. The stalks (trip meter and other one) allows you to do this.
Could you please let me know how to do it?
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Old 12th December 2016, 17:51   #146
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

W.r.t the Maruti systems, I believe they use the Nippon products.

There is another thread on this site on its repair and maintenance.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/bangal...bangalore.html (Repairing Maruti Nippon Anti-theft Systems : Salim (Bangalore))

Last edited by hangover : 12th December 2016 at 17:54.
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Old 12th December 2016, 21:04   #147
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

I've had the smart key on my Ecosport for some months now, and haven't faced any issues per se. The issue is when I drive other cars with normal keys afterwards, as I forget to put the key into the ignition and to take it out when I get out.
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Old 12th December 2016, 21:51   #148
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Or you want to ask somebody for directions. You are sitting on the right, how do you reach the left window(not applicable if you drive something very small, or you are phelps)
Lol.
Thats exactly what I do.
Got your point though and that's where the 'IMO' in my previous post comes in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado View Post
Let me give you an example here.
Do you use mobile apps for banking etc? It does not take much effort to go to bank website and get the job done.
Guess what, I dont use mobile apps unless it doesnt have a mobile website. They unnecessarily take up space. I have only ola ,uber and whatsapp except for the ones pre-installed. Facebook and gmail are all disabled from day one and I never missed them. Heard that there's a teambhp app as well.
However, I got your point.

Last edited by saion666 : 12th December 2016 at 21:54.
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Old 12th December 2016, 23:34   #149
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by govigov View Post
open trunk with foot:

Yes, you really can open the rear trunk with a kicking motion. It is now standard in some cars, yet to make it to India in any of the cars though. You can install this in some of the BMWs , Audis and Volvos as they do come fitted with these.

This I think is a truly useful feature.
This feature is now available in the 2016 Elantra also, in the Official TBHP review its called the Handsfree Boot, Hyundai Elantra Website calls it Smart Trunk, where you can unlock and lift up the boot hood by walking near it and waving your foot under it. I would personally love this feature in my car.

Now coming to the topic of the debate on the keyless access.

I know there could be various view points about the usage and options, I can share my comments from using the option in my ZDI + Ertiga. It cannot be called a life changing feature but surely adds convenience. Plus I find it safe as well, as the doors cannot be unlocked unless you are approx 2ft near the sensor with your key fob.

Comments about masking the RF signals from cars & key fobs, are equally as good as miscreants driving away cars with duplicate keys. I strongly believe such systems are meant to provide convenience to the owner and should be taken with a pinch of salt for people who do not have them.

I would agree that the Start Stop button feature certainly should be configured better, at least in Maruti based cars with Nippon Systems. The system should be smart enough to recognize a longer push to kill engine and turn off the car, than when you just need to kill engine at a traffic light, with a single push. Though my car has a smart hybrid system which switches off the car for around 180 seconds. If needed I still have to go through the rigma roll of pressing the button three times to get the car in stand-by mode.
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Old 13th December 2016, 11:50   #150
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but one of the important benefits is the security aspect; instances when intruders/strangers trying to remove the keys from the vehicle.

I have had to go through this and fortunately XUV has a different mechanism to remove the key and that person did not know it. One of my friends mentioned another incident; during night time another car overtook them and kept on waving at them while they did that. They stopped in front of my friend's car and then one person came to the door as in to ask for some help then immediately removed the car key. They stole jewellery and cash.

With keyless entry n go, you can keep the key somewhere safe. Pockets or under the seat or somewhere else.
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