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Old 15th December 2016, 08:42   #166
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Around six months back I was at the Ford service centre to get my first generation figo serviced. The service manager got a call from a week old ecosport owner who complained that the car wouldn't start after he switched it off few minutes before and he was stranded at a remote place. The electrician guided him through all possible means (disconnecting battery etc.) but the car didn't start. Finally few people left the service centre with battery, some scanner etc and they would have reached that place in 3-4 hours.

The service manager commented that he gets such complaints quite often and one should opt for the normal variant over the keyless variant. But one can't opt out of the keyless start variant if planning for top end variants.
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Old 15th December 2016, 10:28   #167
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqy View Post
Experiences here show that the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages. You can live without those advantages, but it'll be difficult to live with the disadvantages. To repeat what i said earlier, this unnecessary "feature" only puts more software / hardware checks on the car's system and the need for the driver to constantly check whether he / she has the physical device. Features are meant to make life easier...not create new complex situations. But then for some, these gimmicks sell.

-- Torqy
I am not sure how this magical inference was drawn, because having a keyless system actually has made life easier for most people giving their opinions here. in fact there were a few myth busters as well like
1. Unlocking the boot does not unlock the car
2. walking away from the car with the key fob does not switch off the engine, but does give a warning
3. range is very limited so the security risk is minimized
4. If keyfob battery dies, car can still be unlocked
5. We do get accessory mode without switching on the car
6. A backup key is available to atleast open the car

The problem is , each manufacturer has had their own flavor of keyless entry and start system, while some features are common across the board, some manufacturers have done a better job with it
like giving an option to open the smart ignition button, and use the physical key to start the engine

I respect your inference but beg to differ with it
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Old 15th December 2016, 11:27   #168
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
I am not sure how this magical inference was drawn, because having a keyless system actually has made life easier for most people giving their opinions here. in fact there were a few myth busters as well like
1. Unlocking the boot does not unlock the car
2. walking away from the car with the key fob does not switch off the engine, but does give a warning
3. range is very limited so the security risk is minimized
4. If keyfob battery dies, car can still be unlocked
5. We do get accessory mode without switching on the car
6. A backup key is available to atleast open the car

The problem is , each manufacturer has had their own flavor of keyless entry and start system, while some features are common across the board, some manufacturers have done a better job with it
like giving an option to open the smart ignition button, and use the physical key to start the engine

I respect your inference but beg to differ with it
All points valid except point 1. Atleast in my S-Cross, unlocking the boot from outside does unlock the entire car.
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Old 15th December 2016, 12:04   #169
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

On a not so serious note, this electronic gimmickry of sensors, buttons, fobs, and what not is going to go on in future as well. We should better get used to it and the long list of permutations and combinations that comes for working through them. What next?

1. Stare at the touchscreen to start accessory mode, stare and blink to fire up the engine.

2. Raise left eyebrow for left side indicator and right eyebrow for right side indicator. raise both simultaneously to put hazard lights on.

3. Whistle to blow horn

4. Swipe your right thumb up on the steering thumb contour to change gears up, swipe downwards to change down. Swipe your left thumb up and down while pressing the brake pad to engage/disengage reverse gear.

5. Press brake pad, stare and wink on the IRVM to start parking camera/sensor. Repeat to disengage.

6. Knock on the driver side door twice from inside to unlock it. Knock twice while pressing brakes to unlock all doors. Snap fingers once (chutki bajana, in hindi) to open boot, snap twice to open fuel filler cap. Put your finger inside your mouth and while closing the mouth make a sudden movement of finger to take it out of the mouth to make a popping sound (like a soda bottle opens) to open bonnet lock.

7. Press the request sensor from outside once to unlock the driver side door (while key fob is in your pocket). Press twice to auto-open the door. When open, sit inside, press brakes and knock twice on the door from inside to unlock all doors (as mentioned above).

8. While pressing brakes, tilt your neck right/left to adjust seat height. Tilt up/down to adjust lumbar support.

In addition to being easy to use, these gesture based controls will keep us active and keep us exercising on the go.
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Old 15th December 2016, 12:38   #170
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by sidzzone View Post
Hi Dr. Anurag. I had very briefly driven my friend's Renault Fluence and he got down to draw some cash from the ATM. The engine was running, and he went away with the key fob. The A/C was running and the car started warning me about the key fob not being in range. So, I pressed the start/stop button to stop the car but the engine refused to switch off.

However, I did not spend enough time to actually test and confirm whether this is indeed the behavior, but it definitely surprised me. Is this the same behavior in your car as well?
Apologies for the delay in replying. Yes, the engine does not switch off if the fob is outside the car.
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Old 15th December 2016, 13:16   #171
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvind71181 View Post
All points valid except point 1. Atleast in my S-Cross, unlocking the boot from outside does unlock the entire car.
Arvind pls check the MID settings, there is an option on Door Unlock option and you can amend the settings to when boot is open rest of the doors will not open. I've tested this in my Alpha 1.6 Scross
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Old 15th December 2016, 16:03   #172
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Going keyless is a better option any day. It is a premium feature and pretty useful too. It definitely increase wow factor of a car by increasing luxury quotient. Have seen people(friends & family) admiring it.

We have lot of electrical items in a car if question is of failing than anything can fail. We always have a trick to bypass the electrical systems. I am not sure about keyless system but have seen jump start in many cars.
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Old 15th December 2016, 19:40   #173
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by shridhar.s.i View Post
The problem is , each manufacturer has had their own flavor of keyless entry and start system, while some features are common across the board, some manufacturers have done a better job with it
like giving an option to open the smart ignition button, and use the physical key to start the engine
Maybe. Imagine if every manufacturer came up with their own way to use / combination of Throttle, Brake, Clutch and Gear. I guess that "key" was one of those things which stayed consistent. You insert the key. Turn it for ignition. If you see the car running, you KNOW for sure that the key is in the ignition. Not any more. Like @Nav-i-gator said, we better get used to it....at least until i can afford this "premium feature".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
On a not so serious note, this electronic gimmickry of sensors, buttons, fobs, and what not is going to go on in future as well. We should better get used to it and the long list of permutations and combinations that comes for working through them. What next?
I pray that none of the manufacturers see your ideas. Please hide them somewhere, otherwise we're all doomed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roby_dk View Post
We have lot of electrical items in a car if question is of failing than anything can fail.
True. We just added one more item to the list. I know a Tata Safari which just conks down for the simple reason "Check Engine" light came on. Tata had been trying to solve this random check engine warning (apparently for no reason) for many years now. Failed. Now the owners are saying bye-bye to Tata....after a midnight conk off.

Yes, it might be useful. But how to avoid the scenarios many people shared here?
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Old 16th December 2016, 11:01   #174
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvind71181 View Post
All points valid except point 1. Atleast in my S-Cross, unlocking the boot from outside does unlock the entire car.
its not a boot its a hatch, in hatchbacks one can enter the car through the hatch, in a sedan once cannot easiy enter inside the car from the boot. it doesn't make sense to keep the doors locked if the hatch is open.

Pramod
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Old 16th December 2016, 11:27   #175
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Keyless entry has been a boon, imagine you have 2 polybags filled with groceries in both your hands, what will you do if you have to unlock the car? Keep the bag down? Lets replace the bags with a baby and a toddler now what would you prefer to do?
Pardon me for my naive question, since I haven't experience key-less systems either as a driver or as a passenger:

in the situation you have mentioned, does the door automatically swing open outwards in case of key-less entry?
I was under the impression that the doors only get unlocked automatically, and one still has to use his hands and arms to open the door physically.
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Old 16th December 2016, 15:35   #176
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

All aspects already seem discussed.

I disagree with most of the points mentioned by the thread starter.

1) Car can be stopped while on the move by keeping the start stop button pressed.

2) The Steering lock potential in a car with a manual start key is actually worse as the steering can lock while one is on the move if one removes the key.

3) One CAN carry two keyless sensors (I do while on outstation trips) and one can leave one of these in the car and yet lock the car and take the other key with oneself. I do this all the time. No issue. One needs to only have one key with oneself inside or outside the car to lock the other one can remain inside or at home it does not matter.

4) There are actually three versions.
a) Manual Engine start
b) Start Stop button based Engine start but with requirement to press the open close button on the key to enter the car.
c) Start Stop button based Engine start but one can open the car while just leaving the key in ones pocket.

I prefer Option 2 presently.

I also feel that all electronics can be faulted with, be it the Power door locks or auto up down feature in door glass winders etc..

I do prefer having these conveniences.

I also prefer cars which provide a slot to keep the key while having the stylish start stop button.

The Hands free - Opening the Dickey feature on the Superb and other cars is good to have but not critical.
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Old 16th December 2016, 16:18   #177
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

I drive a car in which I dont even have installed a remote central locking. I have to manually slot in the key into the keyhole, twist to unlock and then open the door by pulling the flap type door handle (I have a chevy beat). I come home everyday picking my son from the day care, many a times he sleeps while sitting inside the car. So, I have to stop the car, remove the key from ignition socket, open the door by pulling up the pull type door lock stick, get down the car, put the key in the keyhole on the outside driver door, close the door, move towards the left rear seat, pick up my laptop bag, my son's bag, my son and close that door. Then come back to the driver side car, and contort myself to turn the key to lock the door while carrying two bags and a baby in my arms. While not entirely fuss free, a KESS system will help me a lot i guess.

On a plus side, I have got used to of checking the door lock once I have turned the key to lock it while going out. I have got used to pushing down/pulling up the stick on the door to lock/unlock the doors from inside, and I have got used to of ensuring I have the key with me all the time. But still, having a KESS system is a good to have functionality (though I still would have to open the door by my hands manually, closing it while full hands is a lot easier. Just push it close by your leg!)

Not a deal breaker surely, but better to have it than not i guess.
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Old 16th December 2016, 17:08   #178
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Press the button with clutch pedal depressed or in some cases both clutch + brake pedal depressed, the car would be in accessory mode.

I thought this is standard feature in all 'start/stop' button equipped cars!
Doesn't work in my XUV. Last night, after returning from work, I slotted the gear to neutral and did the following:

1. Pressed the start/stop button with neither clutch or brake depressed
2. Pressed the start/stop button with both clutch or brake depressed
3. Pressed the start/stop button with only clutch depressed
4. Pressed the start/stop button with only brake depressed

In each case my XUV simply shut down, without going into the accessory mode.
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Old 16th December 2016, 17:21   #179
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by ajayclicks View Post
Doesn't work in my XUV. Last night, after returning from work, I slotted the gear to neutral and did the following:

1. Pressed the start/stop button with neither clutch or brake depressed
2. Pressed the start/stop button with both clutch or brake depressed
3. Pressed the start/stop button with only clutch depressed
4. Pressed the start/stop button with only brake depressed

In each case my XUV simply shut down, without going into the accessory mode.
I think what Anurag means is press the start stop button with neither clutch or brake pressed after the vehicle is stopped (similar to turning the key off and then again one turn to go to ACC mode) to fire up the accessories mode. When the vehicle is on, it will shut down when button is pressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajayclicks View Post
But that is while starting the car. The question to which Anurag replied pertained to stopping at signals and yet wanting to keep the a/c, radio on etc. What you mentioned above is exactly what I do at signals, which i find cumbersome. There is also a potential risk as your doors are unlocked for those few seconds.
Yes, understood, but I dont think there is a way to do what you have mentioned. BTW, off topic, doesn't the XUV come with that micro hybrid thingy which switches off/on automatically when in neutral and clutch not depressed?

Last edited by arvind71181 : 16th December 2016 at 17:46.
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Old 16th December 2016, 17:35   #180
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvind71181 View Post
I think what Anurag means is press the start stop button with neither clutch or brake pressed after the vehicle is stopped (similar to turning the key off and then again one turn to go to ACC mode) to fire up the accessories mode. When the vehicle is on, it will shut down when button is pressed.
But that is while starting the car. The question to which Anurag replied pertained to stopping at signals and yet wanting to keep the a/c, radio on etc. What you mentioned above is exactly what I do at signals, which i find cumbersome. There is also a potential risk as your doors are unlocked for those few seconds.
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