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Old 8th December 2016, 11:28   #16
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Default re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
2. Since we usually keep the key in our pocket, if I walk off for a small errand the car will die. Eg: If I stop somewhere and get out of the car while other passengers are waiting, I want the car to be on and the AC running. But if I forget to leave the fob, the car dies.
Not sure if this system is implemented in newer cars, if it is there then it is a good move. As many as 19 carbon monoxide poisoning deaths could have been prevented if this auto shut off was there in keyless start vehicles.

It has also caused a lot inconvenience with my Cruze. Once my friend forgot to handover the key and I drove 30km only to realise the key is not with me. Cruze only displays an error code if the key is not inside the car.

And then again, the so called "Key Inside/Outside" recognition is not perfect. In another instance, I accidentally kept the key on the windshield (outside) before preparing for a long journey. I was able to start the car despite the key being outside and drove till Hosur and only then I realised the key is lost. Luckily the key had fallen down in my driveway at home and I was able to go back and collect it.

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Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
3. The most attractive feature is the access key on the door handles. Key the key in your pocket/bag, walk to the car, unlock with the access key, push start button and drive off. This means you don't have to take our the keys at any point. Let's say, I am slightly away from the car (even 3-4 ft away) and my friend wants to unlock the door, he can't. Either I walk nearer or I take the keys out to unlock. (We have faced this situation umpteen times and it becomes tough if your hands are full of grocery bags, etc).
How do you avoid this inconvenience in a car without keyless entry?


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Originally Posted by sridhu View Post
In my Crysta you can walk away without switching off & the car will keep running. In fact, you can even drive the car without the key in the car.
The security implications are similar to leaving a car with key running, IMO. It does not pose any new threat.
The security implications are when you switch off the car and then realise the key is not with you. You are stranded with a car that wont start and you cannot lock it either. Cruze can be started within 5 mins if you switch it off without a key, I figured this out when I was stranded the last time.



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Originally Posted by sridhu View Post
- You cant turn off the car when it is in motion. While normal humans do not need to do this, it takes away a major option if you have that 1-in-a-million chance of a brake failure while driving.
This is not true. You can switch off the car while in motion if you keep the button pressed for 5 secs.
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Old 8th December 2016, 11:44   #17
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Default re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post


This is not true. You can switch off the car while in motion if you keep the button pressed for 5 secs.
Did not know that. Thanks.

Think this is a different implementation for different cars but it is there in most cars.
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Old 8th December 2016, 11:45   #18
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Default re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by Akshay1234 View Post
1)What do you mean? As soon as the power is turned on the steering will lock. Instead of having to move the steering so the key can be turned, this issue is eliminated in a keyless start vehicle.

2)Sorry but you are misinformed. No car will die if the key is removed from the vehicle. It may warn about the key not being detected, but the engine never goes off on its own.

3)Silly argument. Without keyless entry, you still have to remove the key from your pocket to unlock the door in case a friend wants to enter. In this car, even if your hands are full you can just move close to the vehicle. This is an advantage.

4)Just don't keep your foot on the brake, and the engine wont start and it will be in aux power mode every time. If you keep your foot on the brake the engine will start.


Sorry guys, I find these points really silly. I'm not a fan of keyless go, and prefer inserting a key and turning it or pressing a start button. But I don't think most of these points are valid.
1. If the car is off, I have no means to unlock the steering. That's my point. Whether the car turns off accidentally or has broken down or the battery is dead, is another discussion. In all the above cases, my steering can be freed if I have a key slot and a key.

2. I might be misinformed but then there is no point of the frantic warning messages. I usually get back the key once the car starts giving those warnings.

3. My argument is that the convenience of the smart key is reduced. And if I take out the key from my pocket then it is as good as a normal remote key. And like pointed out, I still need my hands to press the access key and open the door. So I might as well use them to take out the key and unlock it.

4. Now, that's the problem. Me and my friend are accustomed to press the clutch while unmindful(be it his Baleno or my WagonR). That's when the confusion starts. And then you to go through pressing the start/stop button a number of times until you reach the desired mode. After 7 months, we haven't fully learnt from our mistakes.

What you find silly might be irritating/inconvenient to someone else and, very useful to some others.
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Old 8th December 2016, 11:45   #19
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Default re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

The only real danger with keyless entry enabled cars that I can see:

Suppose you are outside the car but still "in the range". You have locked the car but it can still be unlocked by pressing the door unlock button, since the key is still in the range. This poses risk of someone opening the door, picking up valuables (like laptop bag, handbag etc) from the car and run away. Is it true?
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Old 8th December 2016, 12:00   #20
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Default re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
Not sure if this system is implemented in newer cars, if it is there then it is a good move. As many as 19 carbon monoxide poisoning deaths could have been prevented if this auto shut off was there in keyless start vehicles.

It has also caused a lot inconvenience with my Cruze. Once my friend forgot to handover the key and I drove 30km only to realise the key is not with me. Cruze only displays an error code if the key is not inside the car.

And then again, the so called "Key Inside/Outside" recognition is not perfect. In another instance, I accidentally kept the key on the windshield (outside) before preparing for a long journey. I was able to start the car despite the key being outside and drove till Hosur and only then I realised the key is lost. Luckily the key had fallen down in my driveway at home and I was able to go back and collect it.
Lack of use of keys makes us forgetful and careless at times. While I haven't faced such incidents, I tend to forget the key in car after parking. When I try to lock with the access key, I realize the mistake and retrieve the key. But when on long outstation trips, a small mistake on your part can lead to big trouble (driving off 500 kms after forgetting/dropping/leaving key somewhere or key is with person who boarded flight/entered high securit zone and you can't contact him/her, etc).

Please ignore my wild imagination. My work demands I figure out the worst case scenarios for any situation.

Regarding the AC running, I realize your point. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
How do you avoid this inconvenience in a car without keyless entry?
I can't avoid but, in such situations, a keyless entry car = a car without keyless entry. in both the cases, I remove the key (or key fob) from pocket and unlock the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
The only real danger with keyless entry enabled cars that I can see:

Suppose you are outside the car but still "in the range". You have locked the car but it can still be unlocked by pressing the door unlock button, since the key is still in the range. This poses risk of someone opening the door, picking up valuables (like laptop bag, handbag etc) from the car and run away. Is it true?
The range is really small. If I am standing beside the driver door and my friend tries to unlock the passenger door with the access key, it doesn't work. The range is about 2-3 feet at the maximum from what I have experienced.

Last edited by ashis89 : 8th December 2016 at 12:01. Reason: Spell check
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Old 8th December 2016, 12:06   #21
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Default re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post


The range is really small. If I am standing beside the driver door and my friend tries to unlock the passenger door with the access key, it doesn't work. The range is about 2-3 feet at the maximum from what I have experienced.
Well, that is quite reassuring if true. But then, what is the point of giving request sensor button on the passenger side? And what about Boot with keyless option? Suppose you are inside the car at a red traffic signal. Can someone open the boot by pressing the request sensor from outside the car?

Last edited by Nav-i-gator : 8th December 2016 at 12:09.
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Old 8th December 2016, 12:14   #22
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Default re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
Well, that is quite reassuring if true. But then, what is the point of giving request sensor button on the passenger side? And what about Boot with keyless option? Suppose you are inside the car at a red traffic signal. Can someone open the boot by pressing the request sensor from outside the car?
I think the car is locked after the speed crosses 20/30 kmph. After that we have to press the unlock button on the driver side door console to unlock the doors. Only then the request sensor button SHOULD work. But you got me thinking. I will check it today and update if the observation is other than what I stated above. And if so, that would another chink in the 'keyless' armour.
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Old 8th December 2016, 12:46   #23
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

OT:
I have seen few cars with keyless entry, where there is an option to override and use the actual key (atleast on the driver's side). But, is there any car (or all cars) with keyless push button start/stop have an option to start with an actual key too?
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Old 8th December 2016, 12:46   #24
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

The main advantages of keyless entry & go are:

1. No need to press any buttons on the remote (or even remove it from your pocket) to get into the car.

2. The engine start button looks cool .

Point 1 is definitely useful; point 2 is useless (apart from the aesthetics).

I have had the key fall out of my pocket in the driving position, and forgot to give the key to the valet on an occasion or two! Honestly, I'd much rather have a proper key-in ignition slot, just like I prefer temperature gauges (link to poll) and physical buttons over touchscreens (link to poll).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
Keyless entry has been a boon, imagine you have 2 polybags filled with groceries in both your hands, what will you do if you have to unlock the car? Keep the bag down?
If your hands are full, you will still need to place one bag down. How else will you press the request sensor & pull the door handle? Only a handful of cars allow you to place bags inside without any hand input (e.g. Skoda Superb and its foot gesture functionality).
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Old 8th December 2016, 12:52   #25
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

I am sorry if I am nitpicking, but what if you stopped the car for a small break somewhere on a highway, only to return and find out the key fob battery had died. How would you start the car and drive away then?
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Old 8th December 2016, 13:06   #26
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by vijayvelprakash View Post
But, is there any car (or all cars) with keyless push button start/stop have an option to start with an actual key too?
Mercedes allows you to remove the engine start/stop button that exposes a keyhole to use the key to turn on the ignition, etc. See the pics here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Attachment 912813
This start/stop button fits into the key slot.
Attachment 912823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
I am sorry if I am nitpicking, but what if you stopped the car for a small break somewhere on a highway, only to return and find out the key fob battery had died. How would you start the car and drive away then?
Different cars offer different ways to do it. As mentioned above Mercedes allows you to remove the start/stop button and use the key. BMW has a special location on the steering column you need to touch with the key (with dead/weak battery) and start/stop button will work.

In general, people should read the manual or ask the dealer to find out what to do in case of a key fob with dead battery.

Last edited by androdev : 8th December 2016 at 13:11.
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Old 8th December 2016, 13:07   #27
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
I am sorry if I am nitpicking, but what if you stopped the car for a small break somewhere on a highway, only to return and find out the key fob battery had died. How would you start the car and drive away then?
That is exactly the reason why I asked the below question. Will wait for some thoughts from experts.

Quote:
OT:
I have seen few cars with keyless entry, where there is an option to override and use the actual key (atleast on the driver's side). But, is there any car (or all cars) with keyless push button start/stop have an option to start with an actual key too?
In today's scenario, if safety is one of your prime requirements then one has to go for the top end variants. But these top end variants do come with some tricky features like push start which i don't need. It is a compromise one has to make.
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Old 8th December 2016, 13:16   #28
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
The only real danger with keyless entry enabled cars that I can see:

Suppose you are outside the car but still "in the range". You have locked the car but it can still be unlocked by pressing the door unlock button, since the key is still in the range. This poses risk of someone opening the door, picking up valuables (like laptop bag, handbag etc) from the car and run away. Is it true?
My Renault Fluence has keyless entry and start/stop features. The fob, however, comes with a regular remote lock/unlock button. If you lock it using this button, the auto-unlock feature gets disabled and will only open on pressing the unlock button. Problem solved -in the scenario mentioned.
I, for one, find the keyless system very convenient.
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Old 8th December 2016, 13:27   #29
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
I am sorry if I am nitpicking, but what if you stopped the car for a small break somewhere on a highway, only to return and find out the key fob battery had died. How would you start the car and drive away then?
They have you covered for that use case: you touch the fob to the starter button and the car wakes up.
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Old 8th December 2016, 13:36   #30
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by vijayvelprakash View Post
OT:
I have seen few cars with keyless entry, where there is an option to override and use the actual key (atleast on the driver's side). But, is there any car (or all cars) with keyless push button start/stop have an option to start with an actual key too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
I am sorry if I am nitpicking, but what if you stopped the car for a small break somewhere on a highway, only to return and find out the key fob battery had died. How would you start the car and drive away then?
Cruze has an actual key hole under the Hand Brake with which you can start the car with a dead Key Fob battery.
Maruti and few other manufacturers have an RFID reader which can detect the key fob even without battery if you touch the key fob on the sensor.

Similarly, Different cars have different methods to override the keyless start in case of such emergencies and be assured that all cars will have this feature.

Last edited by Holyghost : 8th December 2016 at 13:37.
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