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Old 9th December 2016, 14:45   #76
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
Most disadvantages that was mentioned was plain nit-picking and I felt it as a childish argument. Especially the one about groceries and switching on the ACC mode.

There were court cases against the Manufacturers for these deaths and newer cars now have a 30 minute time out for idling if the keys are outside the car. But I wonder how many new cars with KESS in India has that system implemented.


I am also curious about electronic steering lock. As I mentioned, I never saw the steering in locked mode when the car is parked and engine switched off irrespective of whether the key is inside or outside the car. Unlike manual key version where you frequently encounter a locked steering and the steering needs to be moved a couple of times before you can turn the key to unlock it.
OT: Sorry if it sounded childish but I just shared my experience gathered over a year. We both drive 2 cars (a Baleno and WagonR) interchangeably on a regular basis and hence, a sense of comparison crops up between both the rides. Maybe, that is the reason why I haven't grown accustomed to the new KESS system.

Regarding your point on CO poisoning, like I responded earlier, . It is indeed a matter of concern. The system should ensure that the car shuts down after 10-15 mins. This will ensure safety (in case of a theft) as well as fail-safe mode in case owner forgets to switch off the car.

I dread at the idea of electronics taking over control on critical functions - be it steering, the brakes or the engines itself. We have had discussions on accidents due to ECU malfunctions. So we can't rule out the possibility of this threat too. It may not fail immediately (since the sensors/electronics are new) or it may not fail at all (100% reliable and efficient components). My concern was, what if something happens and the steering is locked while car is on the move? This is possible in manual lock steering too as BHPian faced with hsi Gypsy.
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Old 9th December 2016, 15:00   #77
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Maybe, that is the reason why I haven't grown accustomed to the new KESS system.
This is all I wanted to tell you buddy and you eventually agreed to it
You wont make a mistake with this system once you get accustomed to it, since its not that complex at all.

People who buy their cars are fully aware of this premium feature and how it works. Complaining about it after you buy a car amounts to bad research or awareness, since this is not a new feature anymore.

Personally, this is the feature why I bought ZETA over Delta.
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Old 9th December 2016, 15:04   #78
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

As we are on this topic, is it possible that one can disable the key less entry feature of the car and operate it via normal keys? If yes, then I would be inclined to do so.
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Old 9th December 2016, 15:16   #79
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by CarJunki View Post
As we are on this topic, is it possible that one can disable the key less entry feature of the car and operate it via normal keys? If yes, then I would be inclined to do so.
You can't do so as there is no key slot to insert the key in our regular models and start the car. I am not sure if you can disable them in the Merc and Mazda models where there is a keyhole under the Start/Stop button.
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Old 9th December 2016, 15:24   #80
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

What about engine immobilizer?
My Scorpio was saved from a theft only due to immobilizer. Do cars with push button start/stop have immobilizer option?
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Old 9th December 2016, 15:25   #81
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by nitishk View Post
Not sure how this would work on keyless one,but I dont think you can push and crank the car the desi style when your battery dies.
Couple of weeks back, my City (with traditional key) battery died in a mall parking lot. I decided to push start it and drive it to the battery shop.

How would this work in a car with start-stop button?

I also believe that physical key is better and start-stop is just gimmicky in nature. My Ciaz key got left at home accidentally and I went out for dinner to a restaurant 45 minutes away. When I got off, I realized that I didn't have the key and hence asked someone to get it from home. Unfortunately, the valet stalled the car right in the middle of a main road (the JW Marriott road in Juhu) and we were helplessly creating traffic (steering got locked in the opposite direction) until the key came from home.

Last edited by avdhesh15 : 9th December 2016 at 15:28.
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Old 9th December 2016, 15:27   #82
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
You can't do so as there is no key slot to insert the key in our regular models and start the car. I am not sure if you can disable them in the Merc and Mazda models where there is a keyhole under the Start/Stop button.
The Mercedes dealer in A'Bad removes the key start/stop button and installs a conventional key while the display car is in the showroom. Incidentally the showroom is on the first floor. The sales executive said that it was company (dealer's) policy for cars in the showroom. Possibly to avoid accidents due to a customer inadvertently pressing the stop/start button while pressing the brake.
They must be reinstalling it when they sell it, i suppose; though i would not want to buy a car where they have meddled with such features.
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Old 9th December 2016, 15:43   #83
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

To me, the keyless system is one of the small nicities which is good to have.
Besides, the relative uniqueness of the feature creates an aspirational value - the same for which we wear expensive watches or get the front-doors of our house carved.
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Old 9th December 2016, 15:47   #84
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by sridhu View Post
In my Crysta you can walk away without switching off & the car will keep running. In fact, you can even drive the car without the key in the car.

The security implications are similar to leaving a car with key running, IMO. It does not pose any new threat.
How far can you drive without the key?

This scenario can cause some inconvenience, if the person who has the key gets down, and then his driver carries on with the journey, only to realize several kms onwards where he stops the car that he cant return/start it again.
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Old 9th December 2016, 15:48   #85
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by dr_anurag View Post
My Renault Fluence has keyless entry and start/stop features. The fob, however, comes with a regular remote lock/unlock button. If you lock it using this button, the auto-unlock feature gets disabled and will only open on pressing the unlock button. Problem solved -in the scenario mentioned.
I, for one, find the keyless system very convenient.
Hi Dr. Anurag. I had very briefly driven my friend's Renault Fluence and he got down to draw some cash from the ATM. The engine was running, and he went away with the key fob. The A/C was running and the car started warning me about the key fob not being in range. So, I pressed the start/stop button to stop the car but the engine refused to switch off.

However, I did not spend enough time to actually test and confirm whether this is indeed the behavior, but it definitely surprised me. Is this the same behavior in your car as well?

Last edited by sidzzone : 9th December 2016 at 16:15.
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Old 9th December 2016, 16:18   #86
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by avdhesh15 View Post
Couple of weeks back, my City (with traditional key) battery died in a mall parking lot. I decided to push start it and drive it to the battery shop.

How would this work in a car with start-stop button?
You should jump start it. On all modern cars push starting is not recommended. Apparently there is a surge in the voltage when a car is push started, and that can damage electronics.
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Old 9th December 2016, 16:30   #87
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by gypsyFreak View Post
What about engine immobilizer?
The Smart Key is in itself an engine immobilizer. Without the smart key, the engine will not start. And without the smart key, you cannot crank start the engine either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avdhesh15 View Post
How would this work in a car with start-stop button?
I believe with the start/stop button too you can start a car when it is pushed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthian View Post
Possibly to avoid accidents due to a customer inadvertently pressing the stop/start button while pressing the brake.
Why would they want to do that? If they are worried about accidents, they can simply disconnect or remove the battery. If I was a customer, I wouldn't ever purchase a vehicle from such places where they tamper with original factory fittings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
How far can you drive without the key?
You can drive the car without a key until the car is shutdown or the fuel runs out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
This scenario can cause some inconvenience, if the person who has the key gets down, and then his driver carries on with the journey, only to realize several kms onwards where he stops the car that he cant return/start it again.
Ideally the driver should be carrying the key. To get into the driver's cabin, you need a key, unless the passenger side access is used to open the doors. So, in your scenario, the person opens the car from the passenger side, asks the driver to drive, then he gets down and lets the driver continue to drive on. I would say this as the fault of the person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidzzone View Post
Hi Dr. Anurag. I had very briefly driven my friend's Renault Fluence and he got down to draw some cash from the ATM. The engine was running, and he went away with the key fob. The A/C was running and the car started warning me about the key fob not being in range. So, I pressed the start/stop button to stop the car but the engine refused to shut down.
The start/stop button will not work without the key being inside the vehicle. When you press the stop/stop button the inbuilt computer will generate a code which should match with the code inside the transponder of the key. If the key is not inside the car, it will simply not do anything.
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Old 9th December 2016, 16:49   #88
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by silverado View Post
You wont make a mistake with this system once you get accustomed to it, since its not that complex at all.

People who buy their cars are fully aware of this premium feature and how it works. Complaining about it after you buy a car amounts to bad research or awareness, since this is not a new feature anymore.
It is not about complexity or 'how-to-use'. I was highlighting a security issue and the fact that it adds very little in convenience.

I am not sure I am getting thru, though.
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Old 9th December 2016, 16:53   #89
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
How far can you drive without the key?

This scenario can cause some inconvenience, if the person who has the key gets down, and then his driver carries on with the journey, only to realize several kms onwards where he stops the car that he cant return/start it again.
we can have multiple permutations and combinations of what can happen,

Regarding people forgetting to turnoff their cars and dying due to CO inhalation is simply a coincidence, no system is stupid proof, Idiots will leave their cars with traditional keys on and still die due to CO inhalation, cars like any machinery do carry health hazards, blaming stupidity on technology is nothing but supreme stupidity

Disclaimer: The above statement is intended at the person who sued the car company.

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Old 9th December 2016, 16:54   #90
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Default Re: Disadvantages of keyless engine start systems

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Originally Posted by sukhoi30 View Post
Ideally the driver should be carrying the key. To get into the driver's cabin, you need a key, unless the passenger side access is used to open the doors. So, in your scenario, the person opens the car from the passenger side, asks the driver to drive, then he gets down and lets the driver continue to drive on. I would say this as the fault of the person.
I would say, it is the fault of the system, as practical situations like this may arise, if multiple members of family travel together to office and all of them drive in parts/phases.

If the key is not there in the vehicle, then ideally it should not allow the car to be driven. AC/Audio/engine idling is okay for convenience, but the car should not allow the user to drive forward.

Last edited by abhishek46 : 9th December 2016 at 17:19. Reason: spelling
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