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Old 12th March 2017, 13:40   #1
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Default Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Trying to make a list of engines which were/ are readily available here which had balance shafts. Starting with single cylinder engines. Hoping the readers on this forum can help populate this list.

Comments throwing light on technical aspects would be greatly appreciated.

The earliest which comes to mind is a Kinetic Motorcycle model (possibly the GF170). (Which surprisingly was still rougher than say conventional Honda single cylinder engines.)

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Sutripta
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Old 12th March 2017, 14:03   #2
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Default re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Bajaj Pulsar from the first generation has a balance shaft.
The KTM engines and the 200 ns, as, rs also do.
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Old 12th March 2017, 14:59   #3
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Default re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Hyundai 1.1 U2 CRDI : Grand I10 & Xcent

Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)-screenshot_116_.png

http://www.99rpm.com/hyundai/balance...grand-i10.html


Fiat 1.6 JTDM 2 / Multijet 2 : S-Cross 1.6

http://www.drivewhat.com/latest/revi...d-performance/


1.6 multijet is import from Italy and I am not very sure about 1.1 Hyundai CRDI.

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 12th March 2017 at 15:09.
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Old 12th March 2017, 15:18   #4
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Default re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Nano engine has a balancer shaft.
The new RTR 200 has nearly zero vibrations as compared to RTR180, I doubt whether they have used a balancer shaft to iron out the vibrations.
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Old 12th March 2017, 20:29   #5
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Default re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Pictures/ sketches, maybe from the parts catalogue would be appreciated.

Lets first eliminate some configurations. I6 and V8 don't need balance shafts.
V6 - what about the Sonata and the Accord (the two most common V6s in India)? In fact what angle and firing order?

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Old 13th March 2017, 11:58   #6
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

I believe the Tiago diesel comes with a balance shaft (but not the petrol). The nice Beat Diesel also has one.

The Micra 1.2L petrol has a surprisingly refined idle for a 3-cylinder. It's got an outer balancer, Nissan says:
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Old 13th March 2017, 12:49   #7
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I believe the Tiago diesel comes with a balance shaft (but not the petrol). The nice Beat Diesel also has one.
Very much true, the balancer shafts are pretty cheap and i really dont see a reason why tata skipped it on tiago petrol. The end result is an engine with evident vibrations
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Old 13th March 2017, 13:08   #8
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Honda CBR 250R has counter balance shaft & it really is super effective

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Last edited by GTO : 14th March 2017 at 10:53. Reason: Typo :)
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Old 13th March 2017, 20:35   #9
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I believe the Tiago diesel comes with a balance shaft (but not the petrol). The nice Beat Diesel also has one.

The Micra 1.2L petrol has a surprisingly refined idle for a 3-cylinder. It's got an outer balancer, Nissan says:
Considering the beat diesel was derived from the 4 pot multijet, must have been quite an engineering feat. The engineering was supposed to have been done in India. Kudos to those engineers.

Smooth idle will be more a function of a heavy flywheel, I think. (I doubt the balance shaft is any 'heavier' than absolutely necessary.

It might be better if we list out engines available here, and then see if these had balance shafts or not. Thus trying to work my way downwards. (Then we can sink our teeth in the 3 cyl and less engines). So what cars came with a V6? And did the Honda Accord and Hyundai Sonata V6 have balance shafts?

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Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 13th March 2017 at 20:57.
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Old 13th March 2017, 21:45   #10
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
Very much true, the balancer shafts are pretty cheap and i really dont see a reason why tata skipped it on tiago petrol. The end result is an engine with evident vibrations
The balancing shaft itself might be cheap.

But the engineering challenge of achieving proper refinement, efficiency & reliability after putting it in the right position and of right mass and dimension is the difficult part.

Metal may be cheap, engineering isn't.
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Old 13th March 2017, 23:05   #11
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

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Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
The balancing shaft itself might be cheap.

But the engineering challenge of achieving proper refinement, efficiency & reliability after putting it in the right position and of right mass and dimension is the difficult part.

Metal may be cheap, engineering isn't.
Of course, when they could do it with diesels they could have easily done the same with petrol. Having known the tiago project in and out I know tata is double capable. I don't see any excuse in tata skipping the same on petrol
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Old 14th March 2017, 21:48   #12
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Guys, any I5 which one could buy just by walking into a (MB? Volvo?) showroom here in India? If so did these have balance shafts?

Any I4s with balance shafts sold in India?

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Old 15th March 2017, 00:19   #13
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Guys, any I5 which one could buy just by walking into a (MB? Volvo?) showroom here in India? If so did these have balance shafts?
The Ford Endeavour 3.2 & if I'm not wrong, has balance shaft/s.

Also - Wondering what is the purpose of such a list?
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Old 15th March 2017, 20:00   #14
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Also - Wondering what is the purpose of such a list?
To make the list and then to discuss whether the NVH goals have been met or not. Also to try and figure out/ speculate the product brief given to the engineers, and why.

eg. The D200/ D390. Just by riding one one would not believe that these have balance shafts. Now what could be the reason? Being KTM, certainly not engineering incompetence. I think it is marketing related. What to you and me would be rough and agricultural is to the target demographic raw and primal. And desirable.

Other readers on this forum will have different takes (maybe including that these engines are the last word in smoothness!), and it would be interesting to know their thoughts.

But first of all a list of all (India specific) engines with balance shafts.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 15th March 2017 at 20:03.
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Old 16th March 2017, 21:05   #15
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Default Re: Engines with balance shafts (India-specific)

While we wait for inputs to populate our list, let me ask a question.

When would a product planner decide that an I4 needs a balance shaft?

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