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Love it 49 18.28%
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Old 17th April 2017, 16:33   #16
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

I always thought that the manufacturers do something to prevent the constant Start-Stop from harming the engine but it looks like thats not entirely true. I am just planning to book the Ciaz diesel which happens to have this feature. Though I know its not a deal-breaker, does anyone know if we have the option to switch it off in the Ciaz?
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Old 17th April 2017, 16:57   #17
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

I foresee an issue not with start stop type of traffic, but with fast moving traffic. Consider a scenario (typical 7 AM Delhi traffic), where you are driving at comfortable speeds of 50~60 kmph and then stopping every 5~10 minutes at a traffic signal. Will the auto-off follow the idling rule or will it just shut down? What will happen to the Turbo in these cases?

Last edited by low_rider : 17th April 2017 at 16:57. Reason: missed one word
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Old 17th April 2017, 17:09   #18
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naman_Ferrari View Post
I always thought that the manufacturers do something to prevent the constant Start-Stop from harming the engine but it looks like thats not entirely true. I am just planning to book the Ciaz diesel which happens to have this feature. Though I know its not a deal-breaker, does anyone know if we have the option to switch it off in the Ciaz?
Yes theres a button in ciaz next to the fog lamp button to turn off the start stop function but the system is on by default so you will have to switch it off everytime you start the car.
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Old 17th April 2017, 17:22   #19
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Voted "Hate It".

I have plenty of experience of such systems. The technology employed is as old as humanity itself - the right hand Make an informed judgement of the duration of wait, and switch off (or not).

Jokes apart, I recently drove my friend's new Scorpio S10, which is equipped with the start-stop system. It worked OK when we were driving in smooth flowing traffic and stopping only for signals. But, I did not see much added benefit to the "right hand & brain" technology.
However, when we got stuck in Bangalore's infamous Outer Ring Road stop-go bumper-to-bumper traffic, the system completely failed.
In our Indian style of Bumper-to-bumper traffic, a vehicle typically inches ahead a few metres, and then stops for about 10-15 seconds. This cycle repeats for a few kilometres. The Scorpio would shut down, and then randomly refuse to restart when the clutch was depressed. Maybe the shut down cycle time was too less. So I switched the whole system off.

The system that the TVS Wego/Jupiter has is actually quite good. If idling stationary for more than 15 seconds, an orange light will blink on the speedo console. Like a reminder. Switch off the engine if appropriate. Or else, ignore the blinking light.

Last edited by KiloAlpha : 17th April 2017 at 17:23. Reason: Fixed typos
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Old 17th April 2017, 18:09   #20
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

One thing thats not yet been discussed or pointed out by anyone on the thread is the future regulatory norms that may make such engine start/stop systems mandatory.

While it may sound outlandish; in U.K. there is a 20 pound fine if you have found idling a car in parking lot, rail crossing, bridge crossing, etc.

As cities across the world battle with pollution and smog, tighter norms will come into play. This is not a choice, its inevitable. Governments will mandate engine start/stop systems as part of the overall battle strategy against green house gases. And don't think that something like this will be in distant future. I have a feeling that it will happen rather quickly.
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Old 17th April 2017, 18:27   #21
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Well the basic logic of the system is quite simple, and hard to argue with. Shut off the engine when the vehicle is at rest to cut fuel use and eliminate idle emissions. If you are just sitting there, why burn fuel?
What i gather that depending on driving conditions, read mild weather, there could be a 3-10% saving. Of course the starter motor has to be more robust as it will be used far more often. Likewise, the battery must have deep cycle capability to ensure more frequent draws from the starter. The main engine will need to have special low-friction coatings to handle the extra loads placed, during frequent restarts.
The system has been made to be seamless and easy to live with, however practical use is a different ball game.
I drive the XUV500 and use the start/stop switch, but there are times I get annoyed & seek out the "off" button.I would not like to kill the AC in the Dilli heat of 45Deg.
Depending on traffic conditions and the weather one may encounter during the year, dont see any harm in using it. If its there, might as well use it.
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Old 17th April 2017, 20:01   #22
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

For the way it works now, it is very annoying. Especially the shake and vibrations felts during the start, and the delay in starting itself.

From a fuel efficiency point of view, i am not sure if it saves anything at all, given a regular crank of the engine consumes a lot more fuel and much higher emissions that during a regular idle (The emissions are so high during cranking, that the plot of emissions vs time will be a rising curve during the first few seconds and then flatten out showing very minimal emissions once engine start up).

I also found this SAE paper attached below, which shows an improved fuel efficiency but in a controlled environment. I wonder how much of it is applicable in Indian condition where we stop every 30 seconds or less.

http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-1777/

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Poll added & voted for hate it.

Not to mention, the air-con's cooling stops (as the compressor switches off) and I'm worried about the effect on the engine, turbo (no cool down period) & battery.
As for air cons, i thought the system will keep the engine on/start up the engine if the cabin temperature drops below the set temperature(for ACC).
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Old 17th April 2017, 20:24   #23
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
What happens if I have a battery on its way out.
From my experience with Mahindra vehicles (Scorpio and XUV), the system takes battery condition into account and doesn't work if the battery is weak.


I personally don't like it because it is yet another bit of electronic/chip in a car that can potentially go kaput.

Last edited by CarCynic : 17th April 2017 at 20:27. Reason: Added content
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Old 17th April 2017, 20:29   #24
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naman_Ferrari View Post
I always thought that the manufacturers do something to prevent the constant Start-Stop from harming the engine but it looks like that's not entirely true. I am just planning to book the Ciaz diesel which happens to have this feature. Though I know it's not a deal-breaker, does anyone know if we have the option to switch it off in the Ciaz?
I just got a Ciaz SHVS. Yes, it has a button to switch Auto start-stop off. But I did notice one thing- Regular cranking by key is harsh and loud and with vibes but ISG (that's what Suzuki calls it) starts it immediately without much drama when it has been shut by auto start stop. I do feel Suzuki must have made proper arrangements to prevent these parts from going bust? Experts can comment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_rider View Post
I foresee an issue not with start stop type of traffic, but with fast moving traffic. Consider a scenario (typical 7 AM Delhi traffic), where you are driving at comfortable speeds of 50~60 kmph and then stopping every 5~10 minutes at a traffic signal. Will the auto-off follow the idling rule or will it just shut down? What will happen to the Turbo in these cases?
Can someone please answer this? I have asked this from everyone and I didn't get a proper response yet. How I use my start stop -
1) I keep my start stop on for city driving, switch it off before ending my commute, idle my car and then shut it down.
2) I keep it off in my highway/ high-speed drives.

Do you think I am still damaging the turbo if I idle before parking but use auto start stop in traffic?

## FYI I didn't notice any major diff in FE but it just feels nice to use it in the city. More of a psychological effect I believe.
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Old 17th April 2017, 22:30   #25
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

I don't hate it but I don't love it either. While I think it could have been implemented more smoothly, I've never found it too annoying. I occasionally get to go home and drive dad's X1 and the owner's manual mentions how one can stop the vehicle from switching off using the brake pedal and I've gotten pretty used to it.

I'm an engineer for an automobile company and I can safely tell you that most cars with auto start-stop have:

1. A beefed up starter motor and battery
2. An algorithm in the ECU to account for battery voltage, engine temperature and cabin temperature (vs. desired climate control temp) thus preventing it from turning off for too long or too often

Also, I can say with certainty that most premium car manufacturers have an electric water pump and water cooled turbo bearings and thus its not required to idle anymore, although I still prefer to do it after highway runs. I'm not sure about mass market cars though.

On a different note, I wish that all traffic signals came with a timer (that works!) so that we know if we should turn the engine off or not. I guess this is where engine start stop would be most convenient and would help save fuel and reduce pollution.
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Old 17th April 2017, 23:03   #26
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

I drive a 320D, and the start-stop is enabled by default everytime I start my engine.

As a habit, I turn on the car, and turn off this stupid, miserable, good for nothing, irritating system.

If sometimes I forget, and am alone, use the worse possible hindi expletives on the BMW engineer who enforced the ON by default feature.

Its rubbish.
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Old 18th April 2017, 08:27   #27
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

I voted for 'Hate it'. In my XUV 500, this feature is always switched off; thank god, it won't spring up to life again, when I restart the engine. This feature switches off the AC and only the fan works. It drains the battery too due to frequent on and off. My XUV 500 is better off, when this feature switched off!
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Old 18th April 2017, 11:17   #28
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Hi, Sharing my understanding here on the system.

The basic conditions for auto off to be triggered are (may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer):
1. System is enabled (not disbaled)
2. Battery voltage should be healthy (recorded during last cranking)
3. Engine temp - hot (does not work on cold engines)
4. Engine is at idle RPM
5. Accelerator pedal is released (same as point no 4)
6. Vehicle is in neutral gear
7. Clutch pedal is released
8. If all above conditions are met for a certain duration (e.g. 5 secs) auto off is triggered

Conditions for auto restart:
1. Engine was turned off by auto stop mechanism
2. Vehicle is in neutral gear
3. The engine is recranked as soon as the clutch pedal is pressed with above two conditions met

Other points:
1. Generally starter motor used with this system is more robust and tested for multiple times more durability cycles than regular starter motors
2. More often than not, the battery too is tweaked accordingly
3. In absence of engine power, AC compressor switches off

My vote - Hate it
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Old 18th April 2017, 12:46   #29
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

I have never liked this feature and not useful as well in the Bangalore Traffic.

My XUv is 3 yrs old now and it was enabled only for first three days and since i have switched it off.

Main disadvantage
1. I dont want my engine to get start and stopped for every minute or two. My office is just 4Km away from my home and it takes 50 min in car to reach, Actual drive time is 6 min on saturday/sunday). With in four kilometers, my car will get switch off and on for atleast 10 to 15 times and i felt that, it is too bad. Even for 600KM drive, i have not had, this many times of On/OFF frequency.

2. Out of 50 min drive, almost 40 min need to sit without Aircon.
Did not feel fresh, when I entered inside the office with sweat and smelling shirt. Drive in my Electra , could have been better in that case.

3. Wife and kids started complaining without Aircon at signals , during our normal drives. Spent 16L to purchase car and almost spending 10Rupees for every kilometer drive. What I am going to save, by saving few ml of diesel, by compromising the family's comfort.

4. So, Sorry OEM's, I voted for hate it, and never useful feature.
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Old 18th April 2017, 13:06   #30
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Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

I love it,
One need not to trouble the self every time after a long pause in signal. It takes about 12 secs before it stops and if one wishes o e can definitely put this option to the off mode. Like when I travel in city signal to signal I use it and when in small town with jammed traffic I put it to off mode. Till now it works well in my Bolero even after 6 yrs.
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