Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


View Poll Results: Your take?
Love it 49 18.28%
Hate it 219 81.72%
Voters: 268. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th April 2017, 13:53   #1
BHPian
 
earthian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 321
Thanked: 643 Times
Default Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Guys:
I find the auto start/stop feature in most modern cars quite irksome and have been pondering about its positives and negatives. What do you think about this?




Mods: I couldn't find an existing thread to place this and hence starting a new one.

Last edited by earthian : 15th April 2017 at 13:55.
earthian is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2017, 14:12   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
reignofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,206
Thanked: 1,148 Times
Default re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

First thing I turn off when I get into the car is the auto start stop. It's totally useless in Indian traffic especially in Bangalore.

In the developed world where you only stop at signals and stop signs, it's not that bad and can actually help you save fuel.
reignofchaos is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2017, 14:20   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
nitinralli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,253
Thanked: 622 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Useless feature according to me. Whenever by default it was on, one of the bulb either headlight or fog light one used to conk off.
nitinralli is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2017, 19:31   #4
BHPian
 
deep_bang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore / Boise
Posts: 578
Thanked: 278 Times
Default re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

There are a few advantages of Start Stop even in Bangalore. The assumption is that if you don't have start-stop, you would still switch off the engine during long signals.

One big use is that when the engine switches off, the doors don't get unlocked. This is useful both from the safety perspective (no thief can just open the door from outside) as well as from the passenger safety perspective (kids cant open the door by accident).

Another use is that when you switch off the engine at night, the lights switch on. You don't want the lights to switch on in a traffic light. When in StartStop mode, the lights don't come on.

However, the system comes with its cons.
The system just switches off if:
1. Speed is 0.
2. You are in neutral and clutch is fully released.

Many times, these conditions are satisfied when you DONT want to engage the start-stop too. So that part is frustrating!!
deep_bang is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2017, 21:55   #5
BHPian
 
Kestrel5915's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Noida
Posts: 71
Thanked: 62 Times
Default re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthian View Post
Guys:
I find the auto start/stop feature in most modern cars quite irksome and have been pondering about its positives and negatives. What do you think about this?

Mods: I couldn't find an existing thread to place this and hence starting a new one.
Frequent start-stop will definitely have a negative impact on the engine.

During starting the combustion process inside the engine is not in its optimum state hence the amount of soot is higer than normal and if the starting process occurs frequently then there can be higer amounts of deposits in the exhaust passages and turbocharger.

Also the hydrodynamic film for crankshaft bearing lubrication is not formed until the shaft is turning so during the start condition when the engine starts cranking, the oil film is not there.
Usually this is compensated for in the bearing using specific materials and coatings or flash layers to give a certain life period.

Other than that, in diesel turbocharged cars certain idling period is required during starting and before stopping so that is also not taken care of in auto start-stop.

So basically, if the engine and its components are specifically made for utilizing this auto start-stop feature then it's good but I highly doubt that this is the case since from an engineering perspective it's not easy to achieve in a consumer grade vehicle.
Achieving this entails special materials for bearings, liners, high temperature areas like exhaust valves and passages, some kind of lubrication arrangement for the turbo (may be a small gravity based reservoir), etc.

Last edited by Eddy : 18th April 2017 at 14:53. Reason: Quoting a video hampers readability for our small screen users.
Kestrel5915 is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 12:18   #6
BHPian
 
Nalin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 61
Thanked: 83 Times
Default re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthian View Post
Guys:
I find the auto start/stop feature in most modern cars quite irksome and have been pondering about its positives and negatives. What do you think about this?



Mods: I couldn't find an existing thread to place this and hence starting a new one.
Are you talking about the micro-hybrid technology (don't know what it is called in other cars) in the Mahindra cars? Drawing from some limited experience of this feature, I can say that it does not make much sense in stop-go traffic. Every few minutes in peak Bangalore traffic everything comes to a standstill with or without signals!. For an engine to switch off and on every half a kilometre once for saving a few millilitres of fuel without taking into account the idling rule can be harmful I think...

Last edited by Eddy : 18th April 2017 at 14:53. Reason: Quoting a video hampers readability for our small screen users.
Nalin1 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 12:45   #7
Distinguished - BHPian
 
jkdas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Thiruvananthapu
Posts: 9,649
Thanked: 1,372 Times
Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Its not about 'love it ' or 'hate it' ; its a feature which was introduced coz they found it useful and hence ine shouldn't see it as a switch which just kills the engine at red light . Its usefulness for our traffic has to be verified though.

Last edited by jkdas : 17th April 2017 at 12:47.
jkdas is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 12:49   #8
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,140
Thanked: 84,998 Times
Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Poll added & voted for hate it. I have the feature in my car and it is always switched off. Have experienced the start/stop system in mass market cars as well as 1+ crore rides and one thing for sure, the stop & start action is simply not seamless. That constant shudder is so annoying.

Not to mention, the air-con's cooling stops (as the compressor switches off) and I'm worried about the effect on the engine, turbo (no cool down period) & battery.

I have no doubt that it'll lead to slightly better fuel economy, but the price you pay & inconvenience are too high.
GTO is offline   (17) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 13:20   #9
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 11,823
Thanked: 9,425 Times
Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I have no doubt that it'll lead to slightly better fuel economy, but the price you pay & inconvenience are too high.
It leads to better emissions performance which now rules various performance/ taxation parameters abroad. It, technically, has no value in practical terms and leads to more wear and tear

Last edited by ajmat : 18th April 2017 at 11:46.
ajmat is offline   (10) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 13:30   #10
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: RJ-02,DL,MH-12
Posts: 884
Thanked: 1,031 Times
Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Loving something like this was difficult, this feature is not present in any of my cars but have seen it happening with a friends Ciaz and it is downright irritating.

No mater how much I would like to save the fuel, the requirement of air conditioning in Indian conditions does not warrant this feature for at least 7 to 8 months in a year (Summers and Monsoons). More so I was particularly irritated that this cannot be programmed for "permanent off condition" as was told by friend.

Even in winters, when the car has just started and I come out of my society, it switches off (within say 100 meters of my apartment) when I want the engine to run, so as to warm up to the operating temperature; the engineers would have programmed it for such conditions that auto-off will not come into play unless the car reaches its operating temperature, but even that has not been thought off.

The SHVS and Microhybrid were just used as tools to get the FAME benefit, which has now been withdrawn for these technologies starting April 1, 2017.

In Ciaz (not aware of M&M), the SHVS does not even have a quality battery, just a different 48 volt lead acid battery from Exide has been placed which the sales advisor says has been specially manufactured for MSIL.

In all its a redundant feature, rather a marketing gimmick for claiming additional mileage and reduced taxation. There are discussions about reduced emissions; can a technical study confirm this in a stop and go traffic of Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore etc.? This may be possible in ideal / test conditions.

Advantage to the customer? or long term impact on the engine and its components - well not known, personally I would consider it detrimental to the health of car.

Last edited by i74js : 17th April 2017 at 13:37.
i74js is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 13:42   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,816
Thanked: 1,035 Times
Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

I was driving my cousin's 320D (F30) and honestly speaking I found this feature a real PITA.

Pune has traffic signals as frequently as every few hundred meters with the stop signal staying on for as less as 60-90 seconds. I wouldn't want an expensive AGM battery and even more expensive starter motor being messed up over the long term only to save a few ml of diesel at every signal. I advised him to switch it off.

If any car I buy comes with this "feature" it will remain switched off (if available as an option).
R2D2 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 13:59   #12
BHPian
 
iabhishekkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Noida
Posts: 98
Thanked: 93 Times
Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deep_bang View Post

One big use is that when the engine switches off, the doors don't get unlocked. This is useful both from the safety perspective (no thief can just open the door from outside) as well as from the passenger safety perspective (kids cant open the door by accident).
This feature is present in my safari storme even though it does not have auto start/stop feature. When I switch off the engine, the doors does not gets unlocked by default, rather it only gets unlocked when I take the keys out from keyhole.

Voted for "Hate It!".

Cheers!
iabhishekkumar is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 14:18   #13
BHPian
 
Dani7766's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chennai
Posts: 67
Thanked: 61 Times
Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Voted for hate it. Don't have the feature in my cars. But have experienced it in my friend's 3 series. It was quite annoying every time the car used to start. Also worried about the frequent start and stoppage which we face in our traffic conditions. Wouldn't it harm the components?
Dani7766 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 15:41   #14
BHPian
 
abhishek46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 930
Thanked: 1,695 Times
Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

Voted for hate it.
That's because I absolutely hate it. It stops the engine in un predictable situations, like in slow moving stop go traffic.
Secondly, the benefits of stopping the engine and restarting it withing 20-30 secs is highly debatable.
abhishek46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th April 2017, 15:55   #15
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,102
Thanked: 3,682 Times
Default Re: Engine start/stop system - Good, bad or plain rubbish?

The idea looks good. I have some queries -

1. Is the starter system robust enough? Just look at the wear and team.
2. What happens to the Aircon when stop start is functional.
3. Adverse effects on starter and battery life? What happens if I have a battery on its way out.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PIC : Tata Nano with Bosch Start / Stop system stable rock The Indian Car Scene 6 1st July 2010 01:41
Bosch start stop system gigatech2006 Technical Stuff 1 11th December 2008 12:02
British rubbish 'dumped' in India aerohit Shifting gears 3 16th October 2008 00:58
Drag Mods in India....good,bad or just plain ugly MustangMan Modifications & Accessories 20 25th March 2005 15:55


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 07:28.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks