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Old 21st April 2017, 10:21   #16
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Post Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by techn0l0gist View Post

3. If you give a hard accelerator input, the AMT will pause for a little bit (maybe few hundred milliseconds) and then down-shift and accelerate violently - you need to "learn" a bit to drive the AMT after checking how it reacts to accelerator input.

4. Althought there is a sort of "creep-mode" , you HAVE to use the handbrake for uphill starts since the car doesn't have "hill-hold" function or else expect wheel spins (because of giving too much accelerator input)

5. when overtaking in "auto" mode it sometimes can get a little scary if the AMT up-shifts in the middle of an overtake (the revs drop on the upshift and then the acceleration is slow - probably because the AMT is programmed to shift as early as possible for mileage) - solution - use manual mode !

8. One has to lower their expectations that the AMT will feel and behave like a CVT/regular AT , there is no way the maruti AMTs come close to those, at best think of this as an invisible person pressing the clutch and changing gears for you !!
I tend to agree with the above statements. I believe AMT is best for first time auto-box users, especially those who just want an easy to drive car and drive sedately. Those looking for driving pleasure will be disappointed. Manual mode does help in overtaking.

Regarding up-hill acceleration from standstill, I took the advice from the Celerio reviewers and used the handbrake method to prevent rollback, i.e. press the accelerator pedal slightly and then (quickly) release the handbrake. Worked like a charm, just like a sort-of 'Hillhold'.
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Old 21st April 2017, 12:29   #17
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by ani_meher View Post
I see a lot of Celerio/WagonR AMT cars with very low running listed on used car websites. It makes me suspect of the AMT reliability/usability.
There's another dimension in this factor.

Many AMT cars are being bought by female drivers. A certain Celerio AMT that I know was bought by a girl who was working in Technopark, Trivandrum. Just after 6 or so months she got married, relocated and the car was sold to her colleague who bought it for his wife. This lady was advised to take bed rest after she got pregnant, and the car is now in the hands of its third owner. This one's an elderly gentleman so the car will remain with him for long, let's assume.

The interesting fact is, AMT made all these sales possible. At least in the first two cases, AMT was the USP.

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 21st April 2017 at 12:31.
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Old 21st April 2017, 12:41   #18
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Some related threads:

AMT Failure

Alto AMT problem

TUV300 AMT Issue

More TUV300 issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by flying_spur View Post
In 2 years and 22k kms later, I'm experiencing juddering in recent times
Quote:
Originally Posted by vdi View Post
Mine had done almost 21K and I get the juddering issue
You guys should get your clutch kits looked at; seems like they're wearing out sooner.
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Old 21st April 2017, 13:53   #19
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Interestingly the manufacturer in question here is the 'populist' Maruti. If it was Skoda, I can't imagine how much more stronger reactions would've been in this thread and that too from especially from non-Skoda owners .

I guess it won't be too long before we see reviews of AMT equipped cars where we see something like - "Concerns over long term reliability of AMT gearbox".
The AMT seems all set to take over the DSG!
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Old 21st April 2017, 14:09   #20
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

As I post this message, my AMT Celerio has done 1832Kms in 21 days.
This is my first automatic car and I have no experience of driving an automatic car before barring a TD of the GT TSI and the Figo DCT.

Some observations -

1. The first drive of the day is usually smooth with smooth gear shifts

2. Once I've done about 5 - 6 kms, sometimes the gear shift becomes clunky otherwise its smooth

3. Peak hour traffic the gear shifts are very clunky

4. In short stop and go, inching traffic, the gear box becomes extremely twitchy and often confuses itself on which gear to be and when to up-shift. In this process the fan kicks with an audible buzz. No Juddering here. The gear either stays in 1D and revvs up or intermittently switches up to 2D before it realizes the ratio cannot help the car move, it falls back.

5. Probably once or twice I've experienced a judder in 1D mode when the car was climbing up a fly over and was stuck behind a slow moving car. Similar situation has not come up. Now I pro-actively switch to manual mode if I see there are flyovers and slow moving traffic.

My worries -

1. Clunky gear shifts if the car is in bumper to bumper traffic. The clunk continues much after the traffic has eased and I progress at steady pace and if I have to slow down at traffic signals or pedestrian crossing.

2. The radiator fan kicks in a lot of times. Is there an inbuilt cooling mechanism for the gear box as well ?

The car is a bliss to drive in city and on the highway with great mileage and decent handling. Totally love the car and its practicality.
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Old 21st April 2017, 14:17   #21
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by no_boundaries View Post

1. Clunky gear shifts if the car is in bumper to bumper traffic. The clunk continues much after the traffic has eased and I progress at steady pace and if I have to slow down at traffic signals or pedestrian crossing.

2. The radiator fan kicks in a lot of times. Is there an inbuilt cooling mechanism for the gear box as well ?

The car is a bliss to drive in city and on the highway with great mileage and decent handling. Totally love the car and its practicality.
1. Do you mean to say there is noise while shifting? This is normal. Each gearshift does make an audible noise if you open the window and the road is silent. If not, it cant be heard.

2. I dont think that the gearbox is cooled directly or indirectly. However, the cooling fan kicks in depending upon other factors.

If you feel that the gearshifts are not as your wish, then in case there is an unwanted upshift, press down the accelerator when this happens and the upshift is cancelled, or rolled back to existing gear. If you do this 2-3 times, the AMT will modify the shift points and it will tune to your need. When I first brought the car, the shift points under part throttle were like this:
1-2 - 15kmph
2-3 - 25kmph
3-4 - 40kmph
4-5 - 50kmph.

After some training, now the shift points are usually like this:
1-2 - 20kmph
2-3 - 35kmph
3-4 - 50kmph
4-5 - 65 or 70kmph.

In case you want to train an early upshift, let go of the throttle at the required speed and wait for a while. Initially, the AMT will take time to upshift since the required shift point is not reached. But if you repeat this practice, the shift point will be changed to your need.
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Old 21st April 2017, 14:33   #22
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

I was one of the first owners of Celerio AMT in Bangalore and an existing owner of Dzire AMT (the first in Bangalore). Have to inform you guys that I have had Zero issues with AMT till date. Celerio was sold when it had run around 20K KMS, and Dzire has now run around 14K KMS. In fact, as per my observation, Dzire's AMT is much smoother than Celerio's, given the good amount of torque available in diesel.

I also have a Rapid (manual) and I prefer Dzire AMT most of the time, because of clutch/ gear free drive and lower engine noise and vibration.

One has to get used to the AMT and respect the fact that it is neither a DSG or CVT. It is a dumbed down version of an automatic which deserves specific driving techniques - Sedate/ low throttle or on/ off throttle to force change gears. Manually changing gears leads to exciting highway drives, though its nowhere close to tiptronic.

I have never heard of ECU/ firmware updates for Maruti or its AMT since neither Kalyani/ Mandovi Service Centres in Bangalore have heard/ or know about this
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Old 21st April 2017, 14:34   #23
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Exclamation Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Came here looking for an answer to something that happened to me while driving home yesterday.
I was stuck in bumper to bumper traffic for around 40 mins and i could feel a certain lag starting to develop in the creep function. For instance, as time passed on the lag between me letting go of the brake pedal and the car moving forward went on increasing. There were time when the car did not move at all even after the release of the brake pedal and I had to step on the accelerator pedal slightly to make the car engage the clutch and more forward. I am aware of the fact that the car disengages the clutch at the pull of the handbrake - but this was happening without use of the handbrake.

Now to the scary part - towards the end of the traffic jam there was a small uphill section (around 30 meters). Halfway up this section a yellow light came on on the display along with an intermittent beeping sound. The symbol was that of an exclamation mark inside a gear. This stayed on until I cleared the incline and went off as soon as I got moving properly after the incline.

Is this an indication of an overheating clutch? What can be done to prevent such occurrences?
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Old 21st April 2017, 14:35   #24
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

1. With windows rolled up as well I hear a the clunk. Will get this checked by the MASS <Nexus ??>

2. Got it. I know for sure its because of the traffic and slow pace. Wasn't sure if the gearbox plays any role here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
But if you repeat this practice, the shift point will be changed to your need.
Thank you for the quick tip. I've taken a print out of this and will try this today on my 30kms drive back. Should be able to get a good perspective.
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Old 21st April 2017, 14:43   #25
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Till today, I was of the opinion that Maruti has no issues with its AMT models (barring a rare few instances reported here on our forum). And that Mahindra is facing trouble with the TUV. It seems I was wrong all these times. I can understand about the lack of refinement in the gearshifts or rollback on slopes, as these are the drawbacks which an informed buyer knows of. But there seem to be more serious mechanical problems with the gearbox/clutch.
Since these cars are not imported models but made for India (mostly), I am assuming these cars/models have been tested extensively in varied conditions, especially in dense traffic in city roads (the intended usage for these cars). If so, didn't the OEMs observe these issues and rectify them before launching?

PS: I have never driven an AMT till date and have no plans to get one any time soon. I see a lot of AMTs during my daily commute and was of the opinion that the owners are enjoying a hassle free drive experience. Going OT, my first and only experience with an auto gearbox was on a Merc GLA which was hired from Zoomcar. I agree it's convenient and with the right engine GB combo, is fast too. But, it is boring. After driving the Merc for a good 80 kms within the city, I returned it, came back home and got into my WagonR for a short drive. I enjoyed it more.
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Old 21st April 2017, 14:59   #26
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Well, I guess the DSG has company, at least in case of being infamous. Since DSG is costly, people are quick to dismiss all DSG as unreliable. Little do we know that the AMTs have been failing helter skelter, may be even more than DSG's owing to the volume. And someone who buys an AMT may not have the same financial advantage to shell out big bucks on gear boxes. It is the most mass-market gear-box and hence such issues will be even more painful for its target customers. And there is a reason why AMT's are sunset the world-over. May be reliability is one such under-played reason, and as usual dumped in to developing markets who go by "cheap and best. shut up and take my money"

Last edited by rageshgr : 21st April 2017 at 15:05.
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Old 21st April 2017, 15:09   #27
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomson13 View Post
certain lag starting to develop in the creep function. For instance, as time passed on the lag between me letting go of the brake pedal and the car moving forward went on increasing.
This lag develops when you repeatedly use the accelerator pedal to launch off a start and the creep gets very lazy. This is another software issue where the AMT forgets the clutch position required to creep the car. It also makes the first gear very jerky.

Solution - If the creep gets lazy, find a place where you can actually creep, like stopping early in a signal and then creeping forward. I do it while parking every day and park without pressing the accelerator. At the end of parking, the AMT will relearn the clutch position and creep becomes very instant. I have been doing this and it has led to a super active creep mode. It creeps as soon as I let go of the brakes and also doesnt require handbrake to start off an incline.
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Old 21st April 2017, 16:15   #28
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

Can we change the subject line to "AMT Woes" please? As then it will be more representative of the entire AMT equipped car community.

My feedback:

ALTO K10 AMT:
Owned & driven by a very close friend who often drops his car off at my house when he is on official tours - hence i get to drive it too.
The ALTO K10 AMT is 2016 September vintage, which is around 7 months old and has covered 6600 kms till date. Clutch judder has crept in.
Another observation: The other day, while cruising in 4th at around 50 kmph, an errant goat ran onto the middle of the road. I slammed on the brakes to avoid hitting the goat and the gearbox shifted down to 3rd only and no more! The front wheels had locked under the heavy braking act and the ALTO stalled. Re-cranking sorted out the issue but the clutch judder had definitely increased. Presently the vehicle is being tended to at a M.A.S.S. and they are talking of some actuator replacement - under warranty.

NANO XTA AMT 2016:
Now this has turned out to be a surprise. Folks in our family had a very low opinion about this Bug. The NANO is April 2016 vintage and till date has covered a shade over 10,000kms. No issues with AMT, no shudder, stalling etc. The NANO is used pretty much and is used by multiple drivers, from experienced one's to downright novices who has a habit of meteing out ham-fisted treatment to automobiles. But, it has fared, it seems, at least in the initial 10,000kms better than Maruti's icon.

Moot point is, what i feel, is that more than the AMT unit, calibration and tuning the AMT unit to the vehicle's powertrain is very, very critical and important. Seems Tata Motors has an edge here compared to the Indo-Jap OEM.
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Old 21st April 2017, 16:16   #29
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

I have driven my colleagues AMT Celerio fair bit. This is a low mileage car done only 11k in more than 2 years.

He has been happy using this car and there have been no AMT issues till date.

If you use manual mode and are in wrong gear, AMT takes over gear shifting work.AMT does not downshift early on inclines and that has resulted in wheelspin at times.

The biggest challenge is lack of sports mode here. It is difficult to close gaps quickly, and overtaking is not easy on single carriageways.
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Old 21st April 2017, 17:04   #30
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Default Re: Maruti's AMT woes

I'm a little surprised to see this thread come up after such a long time after the AMT was launched in India by Maruti followed by others; may it's because most of the owners are new to automatics and didn't know what to expect, just like me. It's a good thread and needs to be kept alive for other's to learn before going in for this type of transmission.

Last edited by Durango Dude : 21st April 2017 at 17:06.
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