Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st April 2010, 00:18   #166
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 6
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
This is a grossly wrong practice and needs to be corrected ASAP. Did you develop this on your own, or did someone suggest this to you ?

Your car should never be in the neutral gear when in motion.

If you need to slow down, gently tap the brakes. Downshift, if required.

Theoretically, if the car is in neutral while in motion, it is still idling and consuming fuel. I don't think that by doing so, you would be improving your FE.

It is outright dangerous to have the car in neutral while in motion because you have no control over the vehicle (except braking). You also loose the benefit of engine braking in case of an emergency braking situation.

Rohan
Not sure when I picked up this practice, but will cut down on this now. Anyway, thanks for pointing it out.
rbalachandar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2010, 11:16   #167
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Utrecht, NL
Posts: 24
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Swift Vdi

My swift vdi was bought in feb-2007. It has run 53k plus KMs. Initially on inlicned slopes when I used to release the clutch in first gear the car used to move forward without using the accelerator. now a days it takes a little more effort of staying at a certain point to move it forward. I still dont use the accelerator, but i have to maintain the clutch release at some point. One more thing, when I engage in first gear with clutch depressed there is slight jerk and you feel as if the the clutch has worn out and hence the jerk. I'm not sure if this is due to clutch wear. On highways, when am cruising in 5th gear for some time and want to shift gears, i find the clutch to be very hard. Then from the second use after long time i dont see this issue. This happens only after 30 mins of cruising in same gear and on first use of clutch to shift gears, i find the clutch very hard and difficult engage gears.
service/oil change done at 1k, 9k, 16k, 21k(20k service), 27k, 33k, 40k(20k service), 45k, 50k. engine oil is mobil d-MX and every oil change i chage filter too. Now it is running at 53k. mileage is 16/17 with full ac in city. 18-20 based on road conditions and 80-130 sppeeds on highway. 22-23 if at constant 90-100 speeds.
There is no significant change in mileage since the early days. my drive has michelin mxv8 195/60/15 tires. The turbo takes time to spool. is this too due to wearing of clutch. it is like 40-80 speeds were done a lot quicker in earlier days when compared to the time it takes now. will this happen if the turbo works fine and the clutch weak?
does the above issues suggest any clutch wear? what is the average life of clutch, min life and max life. I know this depends on driving style. I dont do spirited driving. use clutch only to shift gears and do not ride clutch at any given time.
please help.
srini.rtmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2010, 15:37   #168
BHPian
 
me@fiat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 75
Thanked: 63 Times
Default

If we should not run car on neutral, then what should be done in case of bumper to bumper traffic. This is daily part in Mumbai commute.

In traffic conditions I keep a car in neutral and when needed engage first gear without any acceleration, any other precautions we should take?

Also, in my car (Palio 1.9D ELX) sometimes after running car for more than 200KM(Mumbai-PUNE), when I start from the first gear, then car oscillates a lot. Is this because of Clutch problem? Other wise no problem wht so ever, clutch is very smooth.

Last edited by Jaggu : 1st April 2010 at 15:48. Reason: Removing [Font] tags, please avoid copy paste from external fornt editors, also Preview before Submitting posts. thanks
me@fiat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2010, 17:39   #169
BHPian
 
rohan_iitr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 992
Thanked: 401 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by me@fiat View Post
If we should not run car on neutral, then what should be done in case of bumper to bumper traffic. This is daily part in Mumbai commute.

In traffic conditions I keep a car in neutral and when needed engage first gear without any acceleration, any other precautions we should take?
Its OK to have the car in neutral when it is stationary in traffic.

What I meant is that the car should not be put in neutral while it is in motion.

Rohan
rohan_iitr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2010, 11:09   #170
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: chennai
Posts: 8
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
Its OK to have the car in neutral when it is stationary in traffic.

What I meant is that the car should not be put in neutral while it is in motion.

Rohan

I feel there is nothing wrong in putting the car in neutral when its is motion. In cases where you are approaching a traffic signal thats already in red and there is no point in throttling knowing that u just have to brake and stop at the signal. Its perfectly advisable to drive it on neutral till you reach the signal. In fact most car manufacturers suggest Neutral Rolling as an option to increase fuel efficiency. But yes, the exceptions are when riding downhill or during rains, where driving in gear is a must. So neutral rolling should be used sensibly.
VinC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2010, 11:17   #171
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,748
Thanked: 89,395 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinC View Post
I feel there is nothing wrong in putting the car in neutral when its is motion.
Never shift in neutral & coast to a stop!! Among other things, you MUST use engine braking (even if moderately). Therefore, work down the gears as you shed speed, just as you work up the gears when you gain speed.

Link to thread (Shifting to Neutral or Pressing the Clutch when Braking - Is this right?) - Please continue the discussion over on this thread.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2010, 18:03   #172
Team-BHP Support
 
suhaas307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,055
Thanked: 6,602 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by srini.rtmc View Post
My swift vdi was bought in feb-2007. It has run 53k plus KMs. Initially on inlicned slopes when I used to release the clutch in first gear the car used to move forward without using the accelerator. now a days it takes a little more effort of staying at a certain point to move it forward. I still dont use the accelerator, but i have to maintain the clutch release at some point. One more thing, when I engage in first gear with clutch depressed there is slight jerk and you feel as if the the clutch has worn out and hence the jerk. I'm not sure if this is due to clutch wear. On highways, when am cruising in 5th gear for some time and want to shift gears, i find the clutch to be very hard. Then from the second use after long time i dont see this issue. This happens only after 30 mins of cruising in same gear and on first use of clutch to shift gears, i find the clutch very hard and difficult engage gears.
service/oil change done at 1k, 9k, 16k, 21k(20k service), 27k, 33k, 40k(20k service), 45k, 50k. engine oil is mobil d-MX and every oil change i chage filter too. Now it is running at 53k. mileage is 16/17 with full ac in city. 18-20 based on road conditions and 80-130 sppeeds on highway. 22-23 if at constant 90-100 speeds.
There is no significant change in mileage since the early days. my drive has michelin mxv8 195/60/15 tires. The turbo takes time to spool. is this too due to wearing of clutch. it is like 40-80 speeds were done a lot quicker in earlier days when compared to the time it takes now. will this happen if the turbo works fine and the clutch weak?
does the above issues suggest any clutch wear? what is the average life of clutch, min life and max life. I know this depends on driving style. I dont do spirited driving. use clutch only to shift gears and do not ride clutch at any given time.
please help.
Your clutch shows a certain amount of wear but nothing compared to the wear that is apparent in several other Marutis. Esteems and Swifts are prone to severe clutch wear largely due to driving mannerisms like clutch-driving/riding the clutch and depressing the clutch unnecessarily.

The clutch in Swifts and Esteems are prone to massive travel. Unfortunately, due to wrong techniques, the clutch loses its bite and tends to travel more than it should. And such an issue is usually recurring.

From what I understand, your clutch isn't worn to the extent that it needs replacing. A routine service should take care of the minor niggles and issues.

Clutches last as long as 75k if proper driving techniques are adopted but given our miserable stop-start traffic which requires constant depressing of the clutch, I'd give it a life of around 50k. Our old Ikon required a clutch replacement right about then.
suhaas307 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2010, 13:20   #173
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,748
Thanked: 4,338 Times
Default

Was hoping to stretch my clutch to atleast 75k, but at 57k, am seeing it getting softer. Esp in the last 400-500 km. Engaging gears is not a problem, but notice the diff in pick-up after changing into any gear.

Also, I find the Sumo jerks/shudders when :
in 1st gear
clutch pedal fully released
zero acclerator
and going up on inclines.

Movement under this situation was always smooth. Used to go up the ramps at office basement parking lots, but not any more.
condor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2010, 14:28   #174
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 613
Thanked: 116 Times
Default

Hi,

In my 2005 model, 99.6 K KMs Getz, when I depress the cluth there is a very faint whooshing sound (like air passing from an empty pipe). But when I take off my foot from clutch, the sounds gora away.

In the last service, the service advisor told me that clutch bearing is nearing it's end and I will have to replace it in the next service. Is this problem due to same, or can it be indicator of something else?

Please advice.

Cheers

Nitin
ntomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 22:37   #175
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 192
Thanked: 172 Times
Default Clutch wear in bumper to bumper traffic

I have started using my Alto for office commute. The frustrating part of the drive is from Tin factory to the KR Puram bridge (Bangalore) everyday. People who use this stretch know that the traffic moves at a snail's pace.

During the peak hours I tend to drive in the first and second gears on this stretch. As the traffic is not stop/go but keeps moving, here is how I drive:

1 At bumper to bumper traffic, I will be in 1st gear, but press the clutch in (disengage) and brakes to stop. For moving, release brake and slowly release the clutch (engage) to move. This I follow for the entire 2 kms stretch.
2 Second gear if the traffic is sparse.

- Will this cause significant clutch wear?

- How does one need to drive in bumper to bumper traffic, if the way I drive is wrong?
- I also have a habit of pressing the clutch in while braking when stopping and if I am in second gear.
- When approaching a speed breaker while in higher gears(4th or 5th), I release the accelerator, press the brake progressively, reduce speed, clutch in and change to lower gears (1st or 2nd), release clutch and accelerate near the speed breaker to cross.
- Is it OK if I press clutch and change from 5th/4th to 1st/2nd, when the speed reduces, then to release clutch and pressing accelerator to match speed for that gear? (The first gear does not engage smoothly while the car is in motion, but I tend to do it at low speeds.)
AltoLXI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 23:11   #176
Team-BHP Support
 
suhaas307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,055
Thanked: 6,602 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltoLXI View Post
As the traffic is not stop/go but keeps moving, here is how I drive:

1 At bumper to bumper traffic, I will be in 1st gear, but press the clutch in (disengage) and brakes to stop. For moving, release brake and slowly release the clutch (engage) to move. This I follow for the entire 2 kms stretch.
2 Second gear if the traffic is sparse.

- Will this cause significant clutch wear?

- How does one need to drive in bumper to bumper traffic, if the way I drive is wrong?
Yes it does cause clutch wear and will harm the clutch in the long run. But there isn't much you can do about it. While in bumper to bumper traffic, avoid accelerating and braking hard to cover the 10 inches in front of you. Although this doesn't help the clutch much, it reduces strain on the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltoLXI View Post
- I also have a habit of pressing the clutch in while braking when stopping and if I am in second gear.
That's a habit that's common amongst Indians. Several people press the clutch even when they don't need to change gear. You should be able to gauge the engine speed and accordingly press the clutch and change the gear. When you hear the engine falling out of its power-band, you need to swap to a lower cog.

For example, let's say you're travelling at 50 km in 4th gear and you need to slow down because there is a pedestrian ahead of you. But you don't need to slow down that much. In that case, you need to dab the brakes gently. If you feel that the gear is too high for the speed/RPM, you must shift to a lower gear. However, if you've just lifted off the gas-pedal, you can continue in the same gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltoLXI View Post
- When approaching a speed breaker while in higher gears(4th or 5th), I release the accelerator, press the brake progressively, reduce speed, clutch in and change to lower gears (1st or 2nd), release clutch and accelerate near the speed breaker to cross.
- Is it OK if I press clutch and change from 5th/4th to 1st/2nd, when the speed reduces, then to release clutch and pressing accelerator to match speed for that gear? (The first gear does not engage smoothly while the car is in motion, but I tend to do it at low speeds.)
5th to 1st will harm the engine. 4th to 1st won't do good either. You should not engage into 1st if the car is in motion, unless it's crawling speeds. always shift to 2nd or 3rd from a higher gear if you're braking hard and unless you know that you're going to come to a stand-still, do not engage the car into 1st.

This will take practice, but it's the right way to do it.
suhaas307 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2010, 18:22   #177
Senior - BHPian
 
VeluM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,298
Thanked: 665 Times
Question Sparky - Clutch change suggested at 31k

As part of the 30k (nearly 31k, actually) service, I had mentioned that the gears had become a little reluctant to slot in, and clutch travel had become a little stiff, with a noticeable "krrch" like feeling towards the bottom of the travel. No difference in the performance, and though FE is down a bit I thought it would be cos she's used almost only in bumper to bumper traffic within Bangalore (Intermediate RR, Old Airport Road, Indranagar, Koramangala).

The service centre people (Sundaram Motors, KG Road) said the full assembly (Plates, pressure plate and release bearing) needs to be changed. Since I had asked for the cable to be lubricated, I asked them if this had been done and they said that it had. I find no change in the clutch travel feel, so suspect they are trying to make a you-know-what of me. What I have noticed now, though (not something they did, cos I'm sure they haven't done anything - good or bad) is that there is a very slight judder in first gear when starting from standstill, and this becomes more noticeable when in B2B traffic or if the car is standing still (idling) for a while and hence heats up a bit.

I wonder whether it is worth going for a second opinion, cos I really don't have the time to sit with her at the workshop, so can't tell whether the second guy is giving me an honest opinion or just trying to get into my good graces (fattening me up for the later kill, so to speak). It costs 4.5k for the clutch replacement (not sure if that includes labour), and I was considering just going ahead with it.

Now we don't ride the clutch, but the Spark low-end torque being the way it is, I do normally slip the clutch in first more than I used to in my WagonR to get it moving. Add that to the B2B traffic, and it becomes quite frequent.

Going purely from my description of the problem (gears behaving a bit difficult, slight stiffening of the clutch, sort of friction or roughness near the bottom of the travel, and slight judder when starting off in first) is it possible to tell whether this is actually time to change? And if not, what else could be done?

I'm changing anyway to the new Chevy service centre on the ORR cos that's closer. Heard there is a new one in Whitefield too, will check that out as well to see how far that is.

PS. Sparky's now closing in on 33k.

Last edited by VeluM : 5th July 2010 at 18:26. Reason: PS
VeluM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2010, 08:41   #178
BHPian
 
ranjitss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 87
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
(gears behaving a bit difficult, slight stiffening of the clutch, sort of friction or roughness near the bottom of the travel, and slight judder when starting off in first)

The symptoms you mentioned are a clear indication that it's time to change the clutch plate, pressure plate and its bearing. I had the same problem in my M800. I delayed the changing of clutch plate and ended up changing the flywheel too, as the worn out clutch damaged the flywheel. IMO get your clutch plate, pressure plate and clutch bearing changed. How much ever you lubricate the clutch cable but the judder while starting will not die until you don't change your clutch plate.
ranjitss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2010, 10:39   #179
Senior - BHPian
 
VeluM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,298
Thanked: 665 Times
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjitss View Post
The symptoms you mentioned are a clear indication that it's time to change the clutch plate, pressure plate and its bearing. How much ever you lubricate the clutch cable but the judder while starting will not die until you don't change your clutch plate.
Yeah, the judder actually made me think it is not a cable thing

The service centre chaps called to say that they have the parts in stock now (weren't there when I gave her for service last). Was wondering if I should hold off till the 35k service, but now think I'll get the work done a.s.a.p.

Thanks!
VeluM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2010, 17:24   #180
Senior - BHPian
 
mithun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cochin
Posts: 1,950
Thanked: 49 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
5th to 1st will harm the engine. 4th to 1st won't do good either. You should not engage into 1st if the car is in motion, unless it's crawling speeds. always shift to 2nd or 3rd from a higher gear if you're braking hard and unless you know that you're going to come to a stand-still, do not engage the car into 1st.
FYI, Shifting to 1st directly from 5th will not harm the engine if you've reached the 1st gear speedzone(crawling speed) quickly.
mithun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clutch usage in Manual transmission - Exercise to leg or wear and tear? Murugan Technical Stuff 26 13th December 2011 11:25
Swift clutch replacement - Suggestions needed ASAP! karthik247 Technical Stuff 40 31st October 2009 13:30
Swift premature clutch wear! canonball The Indian Car Scene 2 5th March 2009 13:58
CLUTCH troubleshooter and replacement DIY nitroxx DIY - Do it yourself 2 6th April 2007 12:49


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:13.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks