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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:29   #136
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
Dear Mohit Sir,

-Even if oil is overfilled, the turbo oil seal won't fail in this manner, as the input and output quantity of oil inside turbo remains same. Other failures may occur like some other oil seals failing, but turbo oil seal won't fail like this.
Dear Shashi,

To my knowledge :
Overfilling the sump will put extensive load on the crankshaft and result in oil getting whipped up by the crank. Depending on the breather pipe location the oil froth can get through the breather with fumes/gases. This will result in large amount of oil into the inlet manifold. Some oil will get burnt in the heat and if the quantity is more it will raise the compression level or give up resulting by back pressurizing the oil into the air filter box.
Result : Wrecked engine.

Could you please check with your SA if he has experienced this ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
Where is the Turbo currently?? Has MSIL taken it??
Lying somewhere in Rohan motors

Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-14.jpg
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:36   #137
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

When my car broke down, I had refused to leave the SC floor till they diagnose the fault with my car. They also cleared all the error codes without asking me. It was a laid back attitude from the mechanics and SA. I left for home dejected on Day 1 and gave my feedback to MSIL. Next day, MSIL forwarded my mail to the dealer and everyone was on their toes to fix my car. MSIL mail to the dealer can do wonders, the Workshop Manager told me because of you the SA would have to pay a fine of 5k from his pocket, there was no need of escalation according to him. I was without a car for 4 days and was not offered any loaner car

I faced the same problem with my S Cross 1.3. Just 4 months post purchase on December 29th 2015 the car refused to start after a 350 kms drive from Bangalore to Hampi. I was able to start the car after 15 minutes and took the car to the nearby service center in Hospet. The security double checked with me if this was a Maruti car before letting it inside I guess nobody had seen this car in the service center before. The technician checked the car and said that he cannot zero in on the reason but now that the car is fine there should not be any problem. I was still skeptical and spoke to my SA in Bangalore and he asked me to get the car back without clearing the error codes. But without my permission they cleared the codes and said that this is the procedure. Fortunately, I have not faced any problems hence!
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:47   #138
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

If it was a turbo failure, just a visual look on the compressor blades after removing the hosing would give an indication. He can do it even now.
This would have been accompanied by black smoke and would have been visible in the rear view mirror.
Some part of the oil would have been sucked into the engine and would have undergone combustion,RPM would have varied.
I always wonder why they don't have a kill engine function or audible alarms for low lubricating oil pressure.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:01   #139
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
-Even if oil is overfilled, the turbo oil seal won't fail in this manner, as the input and output quantity of oil inside turbo remains same. Other failures may occur like some other oil seals failing, but turbo oil seal won't fail like this.
If the oil is over filled and if the oil level in the sump is above the oil return line coming from the turbo then it doesn't allow the oil to drain back into the sump. Oil return is function of gravity only, its not pressurised. Blocked return line or overfilled sump above return line raises the pressure inside the CHRA and oil can escape from either or both ends - turbine side or compressor side.

If the oil has leaked from the compressor side how does it go back into the airfiler? The flow of air is from air filter to the compressor inlet under partial vacuum due to suction from the compressor. Scross 1.6's inlet pipe is quite long and for the oil to flow back against suction from the turbo all the way to the air filter box is not possible.

Also the OIL in the air filter box was seen puddled on the fresh air(pre filtered) side of the airbox and not in the clean chamber (post filtered) air side of the airbox. If the oil travelled all the way up the turbo inlet hose and puddled itself in the fresh air side of the box then obviously it would have had to go past the paper filter, which is not possible. If that much oil had reached the paper filter it would have turned black.
Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-78787.jpg

Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-76.jpg

Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-67.jpg

If a charge air hose blew it would have made a mess in the engine bay, the charge air in the 1.3 MJD engine carries some serious amount of oil mist not sure about 1.6MJD.

Last edited by Sankar : 23rd May 2017 at 12:07.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:32   #140
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by raghu.t.k View Post
How can the company or the service center blame it on adulterated fuel? Is the owner expected to check the density and quality as prescribed by the oil companies before every tank fill ? Why cant the car companies do this sensing and move the car to limp mode before damaging the car any further? Why should the owner be liable for this ?

I have diesel polo and a petrol sx4, and stick to trusted petrol bunks for my daily drives. But on long drives it is not feasible to check the quality of fuel dispensed at bunks along the highways, and can only avoid "shady" bunks.
Absolutely right. But even so, the problem of oil-spray/leaking is definitely not caused by adulterated fuel. Especially, Maruti should know better.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:55   #141
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Tweeted to Raman. Hopefully something happens. They do not need 1000s of tweet to take action. Just a note/initimation. No action means either the process is slow or just ignoring for some reason.

Hopefully, it will be resolved with no further pain to the customer. The way he is being treated does not give confidence at all with Maruti. Maruti - you can build the confidence over 20 or 30 years and you can crush it in a day! and rebuilding it takes for ever!

Kudos to teambhp.com for being behind the end user - not just this time but many occasions without the fear of arm twisting - against the ruthless arrogant power of the automobile companies. True customer power story. Wish had teambhp like group for mobile, laptops, real estate and more!
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Old 23rd May 2017, 13:07   #142
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

This is overall sad for a customer to be treated like this after spending premium money and expecting if not premium but a decent feedback and courtesy from the car manufacturer. Not sure how the process is designed and who reviews it internally at Maruti but they certainly need to deep dive and understand what is going wrong and where i.e. find the root cause of such callous episodes for the customer and for the company too.

I am baffled the way the premium car is being attended to at the workshop, the parts lying all around as if there is no better way to stock parts. If this is the way the parts are being handled what are the chances of these parts failing in due course of time, who will warrant that then.

I own a Swift for last 9 years and I was planning to upgrade in sometime, I for sure will need to seriously think whether to opt for Maruti or not, this is simply unacceptable at many levels from a reputed manufacturer of cars who is operating for so many years in India, where is the learning from so many years in handling customers let alone premium tagged one.

Another major issue I find is why lie to the customer, I mean what will the customer take away from this. Lie once and then come up with 100 more to save the story, its futile, be honest with your customer at any cost, thats the way the trust and relationship gets build. Not sure how manufacturers loose the plot on such a small attribute for a relationship, simple disgusting.

Hope someone at Maruti gets a sense of things and takes corrective actions to restore the vehicle to as it was when it came to the workshop with building customer confidence.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 13:19   #143
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

What exactly is "adulterated fuel" ?
If diesel is mixed with other hydrocarbons like used oil, kerosene etc. such a concoction can kill the modern common rail, sure we can agree. But we should understand that considerable effort, space, facilities and time are needed for sourcing, storing and mixing such "adulteration agents" and obviously all these involve cash. In other words, adulterating diesel is not exactly cheap unless you own a bunk that's in a godforsaken place with abundant cheap labour, shady characters and a lot of free hours. Why would a metro bunk owner take kind of such risks and effort when he can simply sell 950ml of pure BS4 fuel instead of 1000 ml?

The OP, 100HP lives in a metro. YET, we can assume (for the sake of discussion) that if the diesel was indeed adulterated, the culprit "adulteration agent" in this case could be water. It's very easy for any liquid to get adulterated with water, either inadvertently or intentionally, even in metros, but can water do this much of damage?

Guys, let's bury this adulterated fuel theory and move on to discover the root cause of the mild explosion that took place inside the engine bay of this car.

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 23rd May 2017 at 13:29.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 14:01   #144
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Couple of points.

1. These workshop idiots are trained like parrots to repeat 'fuel adulteration' whenever there is an engine problem. The only car (*touch wood*) I've faced engine problems with is the wretched C180. Fought Mercedes tooth & nail, even providing bills of the COCO pump I filled from. Finally, they relented, sent a German engineer to check the car and he found that the problem was due to something else.

2. Bad on Maruti to treat their 'premium' customer like this, and bad on the dealer too. This just reminds me of the importance of sending the car to the right dealer. As an example, in Bombay, Vitesse is the best Maruti dealer and I'm sure if such an S-Cross had to go to them, the outcome would be different. Rohan Motors seems to be staffed by monkeys.

3. Will be adding this thread to the homepage later today. It'll reach all the right places .

Good luck with the resolution & keep us in the loop on developments.

Fuel Adulteration and Rodent Infestations are the two most common excuses given by any ASS for any major malfunction.

Any car can fail at any point of time. It is however the response of the manufacturer after the catastrophe that differentiates the good company from the bad one. More than the engine failure as such, it is the condition of the car stored in the service centre that is making my blood boil. It is definitely a mistake committed by a technician during the last service that has led to this happening. It is very doubtful that the company or the dealer will own up their mistake. Legal recourse will be lengthy and expensive but at this point I cannot see how you can avoid it. 4 lacs is too big an amount to roll over and play dead!

I have had a turbo failure in my Toyota Fortuner out of warranty and the response of Toyota was very good especially under the Indian Customer unfriendly atmosphere! (there is a writeup in this very forum on this)

All the very best on your struggle and may the truth prevail!
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Old 23rd May 2017, 14:05   #145
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

This is a strange story and I really feel there is no mistake of the customer in this case. I too had check engine light glowing multiple times in my Safari and I kept on driving it for longer periods. Sometimes it will come and go automatically or when I switch off and on engine again but never had any big issues due to that.

What I saw in pics is a fault in engine which can not be done by end user. Deleting error codes and playing with engine without customer consent proves something fishy from dealer and Maruti. And how can we forget about the fuel adulteration card they have played.

How come such blunder happened with so called reliable and premium Maruti Nexa. I assume Maruti is selling like hotcakes just due to its service network allover India. Such things will definitely going to put a dent on Maruti's brand value.

Wish you good luck.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 14:46   #146
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
If the oil travelled all the way up the turbo inlet hose and puddled itself in the fresh air side of the box then obviously it would have had to go past the paper filter, which is not possible. If that much oil had reached the paper filter it would have turned black.
Sankar, one doubt: could this oil on the filter element have happened due to air intake after the oil spread around in the engine bay ?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 14:59   #147
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

When my Swift diesel's warranty had ended I used a Petrol Pump's service centre for oil changes & other basic routine service. They always insisted that 3.5 litre instead of 3.2 litre (recommended by the manufacturer) wouldn't make any difference. It was useless to explain to them how extra oil doesn't mean extra lubrication.

One time I had to get the oil changed from a roadside mechanic and he created a big fuss over how I wanted him to put 200 ml instead of his 500 ml recommendation. He did not have a 200 ml flask and ultimately I decided to use a 500 ml tin can and added just about half of it.

As per them, they add 3.5 litre to all other Swift diesels and amongst the hundred of them that they've serviced there hasn't been a single complaint.

I think one learning that OP and all of us can take away from this is that in case of a car malfunction, please get the prelim report in some form (document or a video on your phone) by being with the car when its first inspected. Never EVER, let the car be away while somebody decides to fiddle around with it, especially if you see multiple or expensive parts involved.

But then, at times we decide to remain human (instead of a cunning fox) and trust the other person and end up getting screwed.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 15:31   #148
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Sankar, one doubt: could this oil on the filter element have happened due to air intake after the oil spread around in the engine bay ?
Yes, it looks like that, oil or oil mist was sucked in. The side of the filter we see in the photo is MAF side. The oil splatter in the photo is oil absorbed by the filter from the other side (fresh air side). If the oil came to the filter through the turbo inlet pipe reverse flow (highly improbable) the filter we see in the photo would have turned black as it would have had to flow from the side we see in the photo to the other side for it to pool in the airbox. It wouldn't have passed through the filter actually. Also there's MAF with its fine mesh metallic screen before oil reaches air filter.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 15:47   #149
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Visited the MASS today and following is the state of parts. Those are removed from car but kept in heaps in cardboard box. Could not find the exhaust assembly. Every connection in engine bay is open to dust and grime.. Could have put simple pvc wrap....
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Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-1495534660633.jpg  

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Old 23rd May 2017, 15:54   #150
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
Visited the MASS today and following is the state of parts. Those are removed from car but kept in heaps in cardboard box. Could not find the exhaust assembly. Every connection in engine bay is open to dust and grime.. Could have put simple pvc wrap....
You should get a new engine. The matter was probably worsened by the incompetent rohan mass. Of course the engine can be rebuilt back to its pristine condition but seeing how these guys at Rohan operate i think it is far too much to ask for from them.
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