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Old 23rd May 2017, 16:08   #151
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
Visited the MASS today and following is the state of parts. Those are removed from car but kept in heaps in cardboard box. Could not find the exhaust assembly. Every connection in engine bay is open to dust and grime.. Could have put simple pvc wrap....
I would not be surprised if in your next visit you find a PVC Wrap over the open connections. Those cardboard boxes makes me feel that some one from the Mass or Maruti has bookmarked this thread.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 16:24   #152
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

* UPDATE Day 23*

Got a call from MASS (Rohan) & went to visit them, had a meeting with Mr. Nipun Sharma (Service Head - Corporate). He updated that go ahead from Maruti has been received "verbally" to do the complete engine replacement.
In that respect, his team has already placed the order for the same. I had asked him to provide the following in writing :
1. The reason for the engine failure (NS opinion is same as MSIL till now)
2. All part changes to be provided in writing before start of the work
3. What will be the warranty assurance for engine & all other parts after so much mishandling - i had asked for complete 4 years warranty again for engine & vehicle .
4. RC & Insurance updation to be done as engine number will change.
5. I had asked them to change the venue of repair to Maruti Service Masters but was assured by NS that their SA & Tech is trained for all areas.

NS has assured that all details will be taken from MSIL & shared with me. He had also assured that car will be handed over in Showroom conditon.

Hoping for the best !
+1 to MSIL & Rohan today !
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Old 23rd May 2017, 16:31   #153
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
* UPDATE Day 23*

He updated that go ahead from Maruti has been received "verbally" to do the complete engine replacement.
Sorry for not going through all the posts here, but did you agree to pay for the engine?

Did you get any explanation (detailed) on how the adulterated fuel can damage the engine to such an extent? If it does, then why they didn't notice anything while servicing the car just 1500 KMs before? Asking this because the damage of this extent doesn't happen overnight.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 16:36   #154
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Also the OIL in the air filter box was seen puddled on the fresh air(pre filtered) side of the airbox and not in the clean chamber (post filtered) air side of the airbox. If the oil travelled all the way up the turbo inlet hose and puddled itself in the fresh air side of the box then obviously it would have had to go past the paper filter, which is not possible. If that much oil had reached the paper filter it would have turned black.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
Visited the MASS today and following is the state of parts. Those are removed from car but kept in heaps in cardboard box. Could not find the exhaust assembly. Every connection in engine bay is open to dust and grime.. Could have put simple pvc wrap....
Sankar, The other side of the filter is also clean.
How did that much of oil land up in the air cleaner box ? Mystery!
As per 100BHP there was more oil in there before they cleaned it.

Maruti is still sticking onto its claim of fuel Adulteration as the cause !!

Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-76.jpg
Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-1495534472934.jpg
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Old 23rd May 2017, 16:38   #155
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
* UPDATE Day 23*

Got a call from MASS (Rohan) & went to visit them, had a meeting with Mr. Nipun Sharma (Service Head - Corporate). He updated that go ahead from Maruti has been received "verbally" to do the complete engine replacement.
In that respect, his team has already placed the order for the same. I had asked him to provide the following in writing :
1. The reason for the engine failure (NS opinion is same as MSIL till now)
2. All part changes to be provided in writing before start of the work
3. What will be the warranty assurance for engine & all other parts after so much mishandling - i had asked for complete 4 years warranty again for engine & vehicle .
4. RC & Insurance updation to be done as engine number will change.
5. I had asked them to change the venue of repair to Maruti Service Masters but was assured by NS that their SA & Tech is trained for all areas.

NS has assured that all details will be taken from MSIL & shared with me. He had also assured that car will be handed over in Showroom conditon.

Hoping for the best !
+1 to MSIL & Rohan today !
Although I was sad by the hush hush attitude and the frequent miscommunication by non-state actors, I had this feeling that this will end on a happy note. Glad that it has finally happened.

My trust in MSIL is restored. But not at all satisfied with the fact that the work is being carried out at Rohan Motors. Kindly point to NS that all the damages which happened in Rohan's premises should be properly repaired.

Fingers crossed.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 23rd May 2017, 16:38   #156
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
* UPDATE Day 23*

NS has assured that all details will be taken from MSIL & shared with me. He had also assured that car will be handed over in Showroom conditon.

Hoping for the best !
+1 to MSIL & Rohan today !
Great to know of the outcome. It definitely pays with such a mass following that has been created on their premium brand Nexa product.

Keep an eye and follow up every stage on re-build of your car. The root cause of this failure should be documented and obtained from Maruti Suzuki.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 16:39   #157
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@100BHP now are you not expecting too much? Engine is being replaced but you want complete warranty for four years??!!

Probably this expectation underlines the reason why auto companies shy away from customer expectation.

Just my two bits.

Yes they should give explanation what went wrong.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 17:00   #158
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post

Plus oil in battery box plate...... More likely two failures.

Vexing scenario
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Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
Dear Shashi,

Could you please check with your SA if he has experienced this ever.

Attachment 1641339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
If the oil is over filled and if the oil level in the sump is above the oil return line coming from the turbo then it doesn't allow the oil to drain back into the sump.
Dear Sirs,

I am not even aware of what all components are there inside a modern day diesel engine, so I'll refrain from commenting on these aspect. Compared to you all, I'm still a learner. So kindly excuse me.

I posted just what my SA told me. Oil coming from exhaust pipe and presence of oil on the intake side points towards the most common failure: Turbo.

Although he said if failure is because of overfill etc, it can be easily determined if the engine is present. From the pictures and info given, it looked like a turbo failure and subsequent damage to him. He also wondered why so much delay was happening, because determining doesn't take so much time. He mentioned, "Looks like the guys at MSIL are upto something, let's hope your friend gets a new engine". I'm glad his words became true the same day.

When I asked him about adulterated diesel, these were his exact words: Don't pay attention to what the guys at Rohan are saying. Assuming the adulterated diesel makes it way into the engine through the filter, it would cause the engine to knock, high pressure pump may malfunction, etc, but the oil won't get splattered inside the bay like this. He also made a very valid point that why isn't insurance covering the same. At my MASS, there is a Dzire undergoing engine repair. MSIL had rejected warranty claim because it wasn't serviced at MASS, and had no service records, so what the insurance guys did was damage the sump, and claimed insurance.

I agree this isn't ethical, but its prevalent in all workshops. Haven't we seen them damaging panels using wooden blocks and claiming insurance?? This is an option Rohan Motors should have thought of before asking the customer to cough up 4 lac rupees.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 23rd May 2017, 17:01   #159
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Is there a parts inventory maintained for such cases where engine requires extensive work, who manages it and can the customer seek this sheet for reference. How does one ensures that the parts from this bin are not getting plonked to some other similar vehicle which came for servicing, case in point the missing key knob from Head Unit.

Did you get any resolution timelines from Maruti, how long would they take to arrive at a conclusion on this.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 17:08   #160
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
I posted just what my SA told me. Oil coming from exhaust pipe and presence of oil on the intake side points towards the most common failure: Turbo.
We all are speculating aren't we? With the engine already dismantled and sitting at thousands of kilometres away and with only the photos for evidence anyone can only do so much. I am sure that your SA or someone else could have done a better job at diagnosing this than the folks at Rohan!

Its good to know that OP is getting a new engine. Kudos to Maruti.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
Sankar, The other side of the filter is also clean.
How did that much of oil land up in the air cleaner box ? Mystery!
As per 100BHP there was more oil in there before they cleaned it.

Maruti is still sticking onto its claim of fuel Adulteration as the cause !!

Attachment 1641507
Attachment 1641508
We all know that fuel adulteration does not do result in this kind of a damage MUL will not reveal the actual reason either.

The fibrous mesh has soaked the oil and thus the discoloration. Look at the top right corner where it looks clean. Was the filter changed in the 20000KM previous service?

This filter box has only two openings location 1 air entry scoop and location 2 MAF side. Oil ought to have entered from either of these two right? Location 2 MAF is not possible while engine is running. Suction of oil mist through location 1 is possible. Oil in battery tray which is next to the air filter scoop and everything at that side is covered in oil indicating the leak was somewhere near there.

Point to ponder: This engine doesn't have a throttle valve. This much oil did not cause a runaway. Why?

Last edited by Sankar : 23rd May 2017 at 17:13.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 17:10   #161
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post

Yes they should give explanation what went wrong.
Sir, If that had come on time, this thread itself wouldn't have been here.

They (MASS/MUL) are still trying to put this on adulterated fuel without any base

When the manufacturer is not ready to give a proper explanation why should a customer compromise on warranty ?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 17:49   #162
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

I have retweeted (handle - pradopk007).

If you ask me, its more about the people than the company!

Example 1 - A fried of mine was frustrated to the core in getting a rattling sound rectified from the rear left door.

Example 2 - I owned the Estilo for 6+ years, and good 67k kms across Hyderabad, Pune and Chennai.
Worst experience was with Maruti Service Masters (MSM), Chennai. Completely owned by Maruti, there are just 2 such service centres - one each in Chennai and Delhi.

I had given the car for 50k service and was generous enough to okay the nitty gritty items in addition to all recommended activities. Still out of the greed, the SA called me after few hours that the battery is dead and needs replacement.

Now the kind of a guy I am (all manners / humbleness sidelined if you try to take me for a ride) - gave it back right on his face over the same call. Told him that
1. I haven't mentioned any complain about battery in the job card, did I?
2. car was driven on its own to the service center, isnt it?
3. regular electricals checkup (light, horn, indicators etc) was done while preparing the job card - car's engine was not running then, so this test was done on battery's power!
4. SA himself cranked the car while going for the test drive with me.
5. This call is being recorded, and I am straightaway going to email this audio clip to Maruti Customer Care for "Training Purposes"


And he should feel free replacing the current battery with a new one. Just that MSM needs to bear the cost of new battery on account of 5 points I have mentioned, and I disconnected the call.

Got a call in evening that Car is ready. No mention of battery, and here I go in my car - well serviced and all issues resolved.

Example 3 - My 2011 Honda City V-MT went for 40k service (which includes brake pads change) to Dakshin Honda, Hosur Road, Bangalore. Got a call in evening that the car is ready. Test drove it, and found that brakes are almost zero and somehow avoided hitting the CR-V ahead by using hand breaks!

As I was very much on the drive way, I parked the care right there in middle of the drive way and called SA along with Technician. As expected and I was ready for it, I was given the crap that "it was like this only" when I gave the car for service.

In rudest way possible(again - dont expect any respect or manner from me if you are taking me for a ride), I asked for explanation of:
1. how did I drive to service center with failed brakes?
2. how they could not identify during pre-post test drive?
3. Even if I was not aware of brakes failed, would they hand me over the car in such dangerous state? How should I be convinced that the wheel bolts are tight enough, or break fluid would not leak after they replaced the pads?
4. I showed them toll receipts of my BLR-Salem-BLR drive previous weekend, and using the timestamps on toll receipts I proved that I maintained more than 65kmph average speed through the 200+kms journey, without a break?

I was given the silly explanation that break vacuum system broke down, and needs replacement (6k bill).
I challenged both of them to explain the working of the Vacuum cylinder + Brake booster functionality using pen & paper.
Of-course they tried to bluff, and I did not listen a word. Asked them to connect me to the GM there.

Once I met him, long story short, the car was handed over to me next day, with perfectly working brakes, and I could feel the bite of new brake pads/shoes too!

Moral - things are good only till people are honest. Reputation of company comes only second.

Please make as much noise as possible - over emails, social media etc till it reaches Senior Management. In corner cases like this, getting heard amidst the crowd of millions is the biggest challenge. Once you get heard by Sr. Management, you stand a chance of fair treatment and then comes the Maruti/Honda/Skoda/VW factor! My personal opinion though!

Last edited by Zinda : 23rd May 2017 at 17:50. Reason: corrected Typo - "Brake pads", and not "break pads" :)
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Old 23rd May 2017, 17:51   #163
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
* UPDATE Day 23*

Hoping for the best !
+1 to MSIL & Rohan today !
Good to know that your issue is being resolved 100BHP. Whatever it is, you will be able to drive it again now.

However, I would not trust Rohan even with simple washing of my car. I had two bad experience with them earlier. First was with Greater Noida SS in 2005. I got my 800 serviced from them and next day the engine seized when I was returning fro Delhi to Greater Noida. That was 10PM in night and the expressway had zero traffic (highly unsafe). I had to sell the car within a week as the total cost of repair was too high for me.

Second was in Gurgaon where I visited them for simple issue of Fuel tank lid not closing in my K10. Spent 3 hours there without any resolution. Finally I had to snatch my car keys and run for safety of my car. Local mechanic rectified it in 10 minutes flat.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 17:51   #164
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
Attaching the communications with Maruti below :
Attachment 1640680

Attachment 1640685
I am horrified with this kind of service being provided by Maruti. I am very sorry to read such a painful experience being shared. Our cars become an extension of our personality and when something like this happens it shatters the very core of your personality.

Please take this through it's logical conclusion, these people at MSIL can't get away with this kind of an attitude. So much for the Premium NEXA and the highly rated 1.6 diesel torque monster.

A lesson for all of us is to stay away from newer Maruti diesels, this is unreliability at it's worst.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 18:34   #165
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
* UPDATE Day 23*

Got a call from MASS (Rohan) & went to visit them, had a meeting with Mr. Nipun Sharma (Service Head - Corporate). He updated that go ahead from Maruti has been received "verbally" to do the complete engine replacement.
Thanks for the update. Please make sure that, before the first start of your new engine:
  1. Engine Oil is not overfilled. 5.25 litres
  2. Engine oil is of the exact same grade mentioned in your owner's manual. SAE 0w-30 ACEA C2
I would strongly recommend you to get these two things done in front of your eyes, and rigorously follow the above two steps for future services as well.
Also follow the turbo idling rule before moving and switching off the car.

ASS usually fill oil of different grade and in improper quantity, which shouldn't happen in any case.

Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-20170523_182724.jpg

Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-20170523_182927.jpg

Last edited by PraNeel : 23rd May 2017 at 18:36.
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