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Old 24th May 2017, 09:10   #181
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Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
This is bonkers. Just when I though - the only Maruti I would love to own is an S-Cross 1.6; I came across this.
============
The issue repeated itself near our house and hence, the car is given at the service center today for problem diagnosis.
Sir, i had faced same problems with my Wagon R LXI Dual fuel (LPG & Petrol). Guys at maruti dealership were not at all aware, they changed fuel injectors, fuel pump overhaul etc, charged me 30 K altogether, but problem continued. I asked few local mechanic friends, checked on web and later found the problem was in master relay for fuel injection which i bought it local automobile spares shop and replaced it for Rs 160 and lo! the problem was solved. Never again got a problem in the vehicle's life under my ownership of next three years. Sir , please do not go by what service guy says completely, please do some research by yourself to save your hard-earned money, unlike me who got wise only after spending a lot of moolah on a minor problem, going by the service guys words.

Last edited by Jaggu : 24th May 2017 at 10:40.
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Old 24th May 2017, 09:29   #182
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
The fibrous mesh has soaked the oil and thus the discoloration. Look at the top right corner where it looks clean. Was the filter changed in the 20000KM previous service?
Just for reference, my car's filter after 3000 kms looks similar minus a few traces of oil may be.

Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-20170523_185743.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Oil splatter in this case far away from the PCV valve and where it connects to in the circuit. .
There's a breather pipe coming from the oil pump which is near the battery. (Part no 30)
Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-20170524_092148.jpg
But I feel the oil has jumped out of the dip stick as well.
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Old 24th May 2017, 10:49   #183
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
Hope you will have some one along with you, rather than trying to fight them all by yourself. Someone who understands technical stuff can make a difference.
I hope this meeting is more of formal reconciliation! and NOT a technical argument or jury discussion to prove a dud case! and then offer a pittance.

Hope folks in MUL have more sense than ego, and not make this case into a power play! Yes as a customer apart from legal options, we are not left with much against such large companies. But one right gesture from their side will win them couple of thousand goodwill ambassadors. Hope they take this part very seriously.

Looking forward to next update and once again best wishes! Let us keep the faith in manufacturer for one last time.
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Old 24th May 2017, 11:28   #184
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
*Update Day 23_part b*

Late evening call from Nexa / MUL today. Want to meet me tomorrow with some multi disciplinary team of service, quality and technical for some discussion and final closure.

Hoping that things will get only better. Not clear about exact agenda... Will update ASAP.
Great to hear that MSIL is taking steps in the right direction, although too early to change our opinion on Maruti itself. All we can appreciate is MSIL's approach in handling this situation.
We have to go with a positive attitude, but don't feel obligated (as someone has said elsewhere in a previous post) under any circumstances. Ensure that they give you an entire replacement engine, critical parts like turbocharger, etc and the appropriate warranty.

Good Luck !
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Old 24th May 2017, 12:07   #185
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Hi all,

Am sure Maruti will fix this to the satisfaction of the OP and this will end well. In the larger scheme of things what is the value of one 1.6 engine or even a new car to the countrys largest auto maker? They surely dont want their aura of providing a hassle free vehicle and ownership tarnished.

Sadly the level of skill and the attitude of the service center is scary to say the least. I can understand all dealerships trying to pin the blame on the car owner for any kind of failure but to suggest fuel being the culprit lacks common sense.. You would have a 1.6 blowing up everyday with the variable quality of diesel pan India!!!

Since I own a 1.6 this really scared me. I have also read other ownership reviews of the 1.6 where its mentioned about various error codes appearing at various times. Maybe the 1.6 isnt as reliable as the 1.3?? Maybe the guys at the various maruti outlets are not trained enough on the 1.6 engine? Have heard reports of service personnel trying to locate the oil filter????? Of being unsure of the grade and quantity of oil used???

I guess one has to be vigilant and check things when it comes to service and repair of our vehicles and Maruti Service may not be of the quality its perceived to be.

Rgds
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Old 24th May 2017, 12:26   #186
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Engine failures can happen to any brand and that can't be controlled to the last engine. Failure incidents are assumed to be rare among Japanese brand and slightly more common among European brands. (This is a Japanese car with an engine from a European company )

I'm amazed at the way they washed the problem off their hands by saying "adulterated fuel" and just kept the engine and all the parts in the car.

Hope you get a favorable solution after social media has helped your cause. Good Luck.
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Old 24th May 2017, 13:10   #187
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

@100 BHP , any updates on this issue ? What's the outcome of the meeting ? Hope things are moving in the right direction .
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Old 24th May 2017, 13:12   #188
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

I am still not able to get the reason of pressure tactics; why at the very first place MSIL or the dealer has to find a solution (investment from car owner) by squaring blame on the fuel quality?

I understand that there could be cases wherein car owner is responsible for the mishap / poor handling of car et. al., but there are clear cases like this wherein the vehicle is well within warranty, has been serviced a few days ago at MASS, is not used for commercial purposes and the nature of failure is not through poor handling or accident.

They should have consoled the owner first, investigated the root cause (it could have taken time), provided with a copy of initial investigation - including
- list of error codes
- sample of fuel for testing
- proper counseling to the customer on way forward (which is completely missing in India; I have witnessed this in Oman wherein a manufacturer representative is roped in for major expenses, who provided expert guidance, options to the customer and the way forward including indicative time period for repairs. This fellow literally was on top of the issues including update on supply chain / availability of parts). The manufacturer representative even haggled with Insurance company for settlement of the case without any cost to the consumer. The insurance scenario in these countries is different compared to what we have in India though.

I think customer deserves a fair treatment to retain faith in a brand, which is missing in majority of the cases when the companies stop listening to the customer and start putting faith in the narration / representation of the dealer.

Going little off - why Samsung or LG is successful in India whereas Philips, which is operating in customer segment for decades has lost out to these players in several segments; its the customer friendly nature. Recent example, a friend bought Samsung AC and after unpacking, it was discovered that the remote was missing. The dealer refused by saying that he should have unpacked it in front of their guy. This friend called up Samsung Customer care, provided them details of purchase and his concern, the issue was resolved then and there and he received a new remote next day. Cost to Samsung may be Rs 500 and and in return they got loyalty for lifetime.

Simple gestures go a long way ! Win hearts and you will win business ! plain and simple

Last edited by i74js : 24th May 2017 at 13:19.
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Old 24th May 2017, 17:19   #189
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by i74js View Post
I am still not able to get the reason of pressure tactics; why at the very first place MSIL or the dealer has to find a solution (investment from car owner) by squaring blame on the fuel quality?
The way I got to know the reason is through a FNG with whom I was discussing this issue.

The main reason being, the "ownership" model that car companies have bought up to reduce cost transfer to them. Car companies do not want to own for the mistake of dealers and same goes with dealers who don't want to own up for the mistake of manufacturer. So, closing shop for both of them will be matter of just signing few papers, no real ownership there at all.

So they ping pong customer with blatant lie of mishandling which the customer would in most cases not been the reason.

Most famous of this is the Clutch Replacement. Manufacturer and Dealer will never own inspite of having bumper to bumper cover (whatever that means) calling it wear and tear. The most attractive of this cover is the full 4 or 5 years warranty. They first make you feel that this is very important and talk to you like the engine might fail anytime and that we will be covered irrespective of anything. And if we miss any prescribed service, which is strategically placed with full replacement of parts irrespective of it working fine or not and cost is again transferred to owner. Who by the way will have to maintain the car as per showroom standards else face warranty lapse.

They will just blame us for any issue that might arise and if the customer is little nubile, they will just throw back everything on him/her.

FNG on the first hand will not take ownership of anything and they are frank. They just do their job and if anything goes wrong, its up to the owner of the car. They are just facilitating with implements that a normal car owner will not have at home. Better to take a consultation of FNG before going to dealer.
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Old 24th May 2017, 18:09   #190
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by prithm View Post
FNG on the first hand will not take ownership of anything and they are frank. They just do their job and if anything goes wrong, its up to the owner of the car. They are just facilitating with implements that a normal car owner will not have at home. Better to take a consultation of FNG before going to dealer.
It is very hard to find a good FNG. At the same time we never know if they are enough competent on the new or latest products in market. I feel they are much comfortable with mass market cars and are deprived of some parts that can be found at authorized dealers only.

Till the time car is under warranty one should stick to ASS later it depends on the availability and nature of the job to be done.

These are purely my observations.
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Old 24th May 2017, 18:42   #191
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by prithm View Post
This is so heart warming to read.

Many a times, I challenge the SA's to explain the concept of parts that they want to change for no reason.
I do the same bro. I got rid of the dull headlamp bulbs by replacing them with Osram NB+ on my City. The SA @ Honda observed this, and gave me gyaan on how fuse will blow, and even warranty will be void. As I take a day off to get my vehicles serviced, I had more than enough time to discuss Modern Physics with him. And this is one time activity - once they know you are knowledgeable & rugged enough, they usually dont mess up with you.
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Old 24th May 2017, 22:10   #192
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I hope this meeting is more of formal reconciliation! and NOT a technical argument or jury discussion to prove a dud case! and then offer a pittance.

Hope folks in MUL have more sense than ego, and not make this case into a power play! Yes as a customer apart from legal options, we are not left with much against such large companies. But one right gesture from their side will win them couple of thousand goodwill ambassadors. Hope they take this part very seriously.

Looking forward to next update and once again best wishes! Let us keep the faith in manufacturer for one last time.
*UPDATE DAY 24*

Today we had a meeting with a team from MUL headed by Mr. AK & comprising of 5 other members of diverse teams + Rohan Auto corporate rep.

Summary of 2 hours long meeting (will share detailed version in due course of time) :
1. MSIL opinion & report remains same - fuel adulteration - hence its not a manufacturing defect (report received)
2. As a goodwill gesture - MSIL will bear part of the replacement process & rest will be borne by customer
3. Mr. AK is asked to float approval to get 100% contribution from MSIL - response awaited - partial support feels like 0% customer satisfaction for the mental trauma, I am quite hopeful TEAM-BHP voice will resonate louder
4. All repairs will be done under the supervision of area TSM of MSIL & will be certified by him
5. No warranty on service parts separately - only initial warrantly remains in force till it ends
6. Rohan motors is assuring full responsibility now & in future for any support
7. Engine will be replaced as a whole
8. The deficiencies in NEXA customer support is noted via this case & it will be used for improvements in days to come
9. No post repair service plan - i am not aware as post repair what is the suitable cycle for services
10. Will share the chemical test report soon .

So, many more steps need to be completed till we say this case is 100% satisfactorily resolved. But till now it has been made easy than it looks with the enthusiastic support from all fellow auto enthusiasts.
Special mention of @KPZEN who has been a constant guide from Day 1.
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Old 24th May 2017, 22:25   #193
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
[u][b]
1. MSIL opinion & report remains same - fuel adulteration - hence its not a manufacturing defect (report received)
No one ever said manufacturing defect duh! common diagnosis pointed to oil over fill!

Hopefully this report is in writing and hope you can share the same with us?

Quote:
Will share the chemical test report soon .
Assume this is of the fuel from your car? and not some crappy analysis of engine parts, which is obviously contaminated beyond reason thanks to the workmanship at the workshop.

So obvious question.. doesn't this engine have any fail circuits in fuel line to detect and stop serious harm to engine? in such situation?

Why is MUL not sending a circular if the engine is so susceptible to catastrophic failure due to so called "adulterated" fuel.

First reaction - UTTER DISAPPOINTMENT! maybe very high expectations towards apna Maruti Udyog Limited.

ps: Hope these diagnosis and discussions were conducted by qualified technical folks from factory or R&D and not some corporate head of blah blah

Last edited by Jaggu : 24th May 2017 at 22:27.
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Old 24th May 2017, 22:37   #194
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post
*UPDATE DAY 24*

1. MSIL opinion & report remains same - fuel adulteration - hence its not a manufacturing defect (report received)
As I recollect, you mention that you usually fill fuel from one particular pump. Do you have their bills? Maybe its time to bring them into the picture and let them refute Maruti.
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Old 25th May 2017, 08:58   #195
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

If MSIL 'experts' have found out that overfilling engine oil is primary cause of this 'blow-by' and not turbo failure or PCV failure then this will result.Since MSIL will wash hands off onto dealer and dealer will stick to fuel adultration and this is their cozy compromise for the shopfloor bungle.

Even I noted from photos posted that most of oil traces are near the dipstick. On battery as well as air filter

Last edited by lurker : 25th May 2017 at 08:59.
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