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Old 29th May 2017, 13:03   #286
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by AutoSphere View Post
Very good idea and this is what I do, especially, when I want to use synthetic oil after the dealer has done the regular service/oil-change.
When the vehicle is under warranty, you cannot change oil outside the dealership because there needs to be a record of that maintenance item with the dealer or the OEM.

Thing is, IMO, there is no substitute for honesty and ethics. If people want to adulterate fuel or engine oil they'll do it.

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. Something doesn't add up here. The questions that keep arising in my mind:

a) If it is adulterated or used oil there should/would be other diesel vehicles serviced at this particular facility that would experience the similar problem. Maybe 100BHP can keep an eye on the cars coming into the workshop with severe engine problems. The thing that strikes me is a rogue employee stealing/pilfering engine oil and adding used oil to replenish the stock in order to match the stock levels in the dealer's ERP or internal stock keeping system.

b) Similarly, adulterated fuel should have messed up other diesel cars that fill up from the very petrol station the OP has visited. Since this station is near the OP's office maybe he could actually consider getting feedback from others frequenting this place.

c) Does this mean a diesel vehicle with less than optimum quality of fuel or engine oil is going experience severe engine damage? How do taxis, which are known to be maintained and run in far less optimal conditions than the OP's vehicle, using questionable cheap maintainance parts including engine oil, filters, tyres etc., still keep running?

Last edited by R2D2 : 29th May 2017 at 13:04.
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Old 29th May 2017, 13:17   #287
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

This is precisely the reason why I never felt comfortable while using the oil supplied at most ASCs. They either bring the required amount from a large can, or they have an overhead delivery system, something on the lines of a fuel station. It works in theory, but what is the guarantee of the grade/authenticity/purity of the oil?? We all know how ASCs find ways of inflating the bills-Can we not expect some of them to stoop so low so as to use such recycled/fake oils?? So at ASC, always insist for a separate small sealed can, instead of other ways of refilling.

During my short stint at Delhi last year, I also came across a huge market of fake engine oils. And people are happily buying them, just to save a few bucks. Many of them are ignorant. May be the dealer also resorted to such cheap tactics to increase their profitability. This is pure speculation on my part, since I fail to understand MSILs explanation that how adulterated fuel will not affect components like High pressure fuel pump, but damage only one cylinder more than others.
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Old 29th May 2017, 13:34   #288
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by tracerspiff View Post
Had an analysis been done on the oil, it would have shown a near zero "TBN" which means the oil was basically oil colored liquid! There should have been an analysis done on the oil the same way the fuel was analysed and the truth would have come out.
@100Bhp- were you physically present when the oil change happened? Was the oil taken from the standard 5.3L can or from a barrel? Was the tamper proof seal intact or was it open before? Please note, the 0W30 oil is supplied in 5.3 L cans and not loosely in a barrel.
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Old 29th May 2017, 13:40   #289
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
This is precisely the reason why I never felt comfortable while using the oil supplied at most ASCs. They either bring the required amount from a large can, or they have an overhead delivery system, something on the lines of a fuel station. It works in theory, but what is the guarantee of the grade/authenticity/purity of the oil?? We all know how ASCs find ways of inflating the bills-Can we not expect some of them to stoop so low so as to use such recycled/fake oils?? So at ASC, always insist for a separate small sealed can, instead of other ways of refilling.
Sadly, most dealership do not offer an option. But for those who do, you either replace the oil through their automatic dispensers OR if possible buy a sufficient number of sealed cans at the dealership and have them change the oil in front of you. But you wind up pay more and in a price sensitive market like India the extra money could matter to some owners.

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..since I fail to understand MSILs explanation that how adulterated fuel will not affect components like High pressure fuel pump, but damage only one cylinder more than others.
That single cylinder theory doesn't make sense. The other question is, if the engine oil was adulterated could the turbo (spinning at 10s of thousands of RPM) really survive the ordeal without damage? I understand MSIL are using the same part. I truly hope it is tested before installation.
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Old 29th May 2017, 13:51   #290
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
The other question is, if the engine oil was adulterated could the turbo (spinning at 10s of thousands of RPM) really survive the ordeal without damage? I understand MSIL are using the same part. I truly hope it is tested before installation.
I was told the turbo too will have suffered damage. The dealer would be refurbishing with a bearing and seal kit(costs a couple thousand rupees). The OP should push for a new turbo or get written assurance from MSIL.
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Old 29th May 2017, 14:16   #291
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
This is precisely the reason why I never felt comfortable while using the oil supplied at most ASCs. They either bring the required amount from a large can, or they have an overhead delivery system, something on the lines of a fuel station.
+1. I have not let them fill what they get in barrels whenever​ I visit the ASC for service and even when I use their "Service @ Home" facility. They get 3.1L quantity in some old can that they have.

Once in one of the services at home, at the time of re-filling, I stopped them and asked for authenticity​ of that oil. He gave me a look and asked me to talk to his superior for any doubt clarification. Called up the superior to know what oil it is. He said Castrol 5w40 but the technician who came told it is Shell 5w40. Didn't know whom to believe so called the service off.

I stopped him from filling but he wasn't budging and giving me reasons like it is my duty, my saar will scold etc. I had to raise my voice at him and his superior in frustration to wrap things up. I didn't let him fill a drop of new oil from that old dirty can. Asked him to re-fit the oil drain bolt and leave. Took my Activa, went to the MGP stockist, got a 3.5L can of Mobil super 5w40 and filled it in my car.

I am still not convinced with this Adulterated Fuel theory that Maruti is playing. How on earth can only 1 bore get effected with the bad fuel? What about the fuel pump, fuel filter, injectors etc? All these could have given way before the bore could get affected.

One more email I am sending to Maruti on this case for answers. I know they'll not reply but still.

IMO they are losing faith, trust and customers the way they are handling cases these days. Totally Non-Maruti they are behaving! Has someone from VW or Skoda joined the guys?!
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Old 29th May 2017, 14:59   #292
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

On a secondary note, to all lawyers following this post, can 100BHP sue the fuel station based on this document provided by MSIL/SGS (along with the receipt of the purchase)?
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Old 29th May 2017, 15:05   #293
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I am still not convinced with this Adulterated Fuel theory that Maruti is playing. How on earth can only 1 bore get effected with the bad fuel? What about the fuel pump, fuel filter, injectors etc? All these could have given way before the bore could get affected.
Precisely, adulterated fuel can screw a million things like injectors, HPFP, etc, and the user will also note weird driving characteristics, like knocking etc. How on earth did the adulterated fuel didn't touch anything in its path, but only a single cylinder?? Highly focused fuel molecules I must say!!

Having said that, Maruti tried to brush aside this case by giving the fuel adulteration logic, and they will stick to that, lest they should be labelled as liars. But I hope they get to the root of the issue and fix it internally. Goodwill warranty is okay for clutch replacements, but not for engines. I am sure they have found something wrong on their part, hence trying to end this ASAP. All I care about, is that BHPian 100BHP gets his car in the pristine shape it originally was.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 29th May 2017, 15:10   #294
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
All I care about, is that BHPian 100BHP gets his car in the pristine shape it originally was.
^^

This is possible ONLY IF they don't use their brains and just replace the whole engine altogether. If this happens things will be good for the car and Mohit too.

Looking at the part number given by Mohit, looks to be the complete engine assembly. So fingers crossed.

Last edited by a4anurag : 29th May 2017 at 15:15.
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Old 29th May 2017, 15:31   #295
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Sorry Sir for the typo. I meant ​complete.

Is the any breakup of parts we can know that are included in the part number (11000M62M00) given by Mohit under the Engine Assy?
Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-1111111111.jpg

Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-22222222.jpg

I have ordered such engine assemblies in the past, and they had everything in the engine bay minus the wiring and those assemblies which don't need a gasket for installation, Eg:air filter etc. This is the simplest explanation I can give.

In case of an Alto, it had engine oil pre-filled from factory.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 29th May 2017, 15:50   #296
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

I live thousands of kms away from NCR so excuse me please... :

As per the post #1 of the OP, the car was last serviced by MASS Rana Motors, Okhla , New Delhi. It was this MASS whom the OP tried to contact when he was in dire straits.

However, after calls going through NEXA, the car was finally flat-bedded to another MASS Rohan Motors of Greater Noida where apparently all these adulteration theories were concocted in an apparently a very professional manner, considering the lab report.

Are both these MASS under the same ownership? If not why did Rohan Motors go such elaborate lengths to cover up the wrongdoings of another MASS, Rana Motors? Did the three parties (the 2 MASS + NEXA) collude to form a racket to cheat the customers? Did MSIL make any inquiries with Rana Motors? If not, why?

If both these MASS are indeed under the same management, who suggested the OP to take the car into a sister concern of the original MASS, someone in NEXA? If it was an original decision by the OP, I am really sorry to say this, you should have been more diligent and taken this car to a MASS that is not part of this management.
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Old 29th May 2017, 17:22   #297
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
When the vehicle is under warranty, you cannot change oil outside the dealership because there needs to be a record of that maintenance item with the dealer or the OEM.
Oh yes, absolutely go to the dealer during warranty - although I missed stating it.

The rationale, in my opinion, is that, since well maintained vehicles generally do not give too many problems, some dealers try to make money by following unethical means. Warranty service by the dealer is probably reimbursed (in some form) by the manufacturer, so after warranty there is an incentive to fleece the customer.
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Old 29th May 2017, 20:01   #298
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by AutoSphere View Post
The rationale, in my opinion, is that, since well maintained vehicles generally do not give too many problems, some dealers try to make money by following unethical means.

Warranty service by the dealer is probably reimbursed (in some form) by the manufacturer, so after warranty there is an incentive to fleece the customer.
Labour charges and some other expenses (not consumables as they're paid for by the car owner) would most certainly be reimbursed by the car manufacturer based on the service coupons collected.

The real margin for ALL dealers is on spares, consumables and of course labour charges. Fast moving OEM consumables like oil, oil filters, air filters etc. are major sources of income for a dealer. Hence there is incentive for dishonest employees (and sadly sometimes even the Dealer Principals themselves) to encourage adulteration of lubes and/or buy spares from non-approved lube and spare suppliers in the market.

IMO, if you find an honest ASC or even FNG make sure you build a relationship with the ASC/FNG and their Service Technicians/Advisors. They will help you keep your vehicle in good shape.

I take my very own can of engine oil and have the ASC change the oil and perform the annual service with all OEM parts as required. So with the exception of the engine oil (4.x litres), the dealer makes a profit from the consumables/spares and labour utilised during the service. It's a win-win for both your truly and the ASC. I know my vehicle gets the best possible care.

Ah yes, no matter my trust in the dealer's technicians, I ALWAYS inspect the vehicle inside & out plus check oil/fluid levels before setting off. I would strongly encourage and advise all T-BHPians to give their vehicles the once over before driving off from the service centre.
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Old 30th May 2017, 01:16   #299
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Browsing through the internet to see what all possibilities are there for an engine to get damaged through organic materials, I came across this equipment.

Mr. Funnel

What does it do?!

Quote:
The Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter is a heavy-duty, fast-flow, convenient and portable funnel with built-in, patent pending filter.

The Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter is specially designed to filter out water, dirt, and debris from most fuels including, gasoline, diesel, heating oil, and kerosene. These harmful contaminants can lead your engine to a loss of efficiency, engine shutdown, or even system failure.
Here's a video demonstrating what it does:



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Old 30th May 2017, 10:35   #300
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This issue shouldn't be an opportunity for any product to take advantage. There are scary cats all around. If fuel is aldeterated then why no other car reported same issue? Without fuel pump and injectors getting damaged, only one cylinder looses it.
Yes, contaminated engine oil seems issue.

For the sake if safety, I used to buy Mobil1 from outside and used to get it changed in front of me while taking car (petrol sx4) back from service center.
Later service center started stocking it in 20liter barrels. So it was safer to get oil ftom them.

Last edited by omishra : 30th May 2017 at 10:36.
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