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Old 1st June 2017, 10:08   #316
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Yes I do agree that 100 bhp and other members in the forum are fairly disappointed, still the best part is that MSIL has come to terms with the car owner to fix it; with start to finish about a month of haggling !

Looking at other manufacturers both mass market and premium, the issues have not been sorted out fully even in courts. I remember having read about Toyota Fortuner (again premium offering from Japanese Major) in our forum only wherein driver died due to accident as the airbags failed to deploy. The car owner was able to get compensation of 10 Lacs for his driver through court as Toyota was not bugging from its stand that there is no defect in the airbag deployment mechanism !
I would still say, though its a bad example that MSIL has set here, yet if the car is handed over to 100 bhp meeting his satisfaction may be within next 2 - 3 days without any surprises, it is still okay.

Last edited by i74js : 1st June 2017 at 10:10.
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Old 1st June 2017, 10:11   #317
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
For the very same reason I have compiled this thread, do have a look: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ti-suzuki.html (Approved Engine Oils by Maruti Suzuki)

MSIL have recommended 0W40 Mobil1 fully synthetic for their diesel engines.

Regards,
Shashi
I agree, what you did is amazing for all Maruti owners here.

BUT, in the real life scenario, M.A.S.S does not take this into consideration at all.

No matter what we say or show to them, they will simply say that they don't have the part (Oil grade - especially Shell) with them and sign off by saying warranty will be void if I try to fill with one that bought or from FNG (as if they will know if I ever did it).

The biggest problem with the warranty part is that they force you to comply with their rules but when something goes wrong, all blame is passed on to the owner.
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Old 1st June 2017, 10:43   #318
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

If it was indeed the fuel adulteration that had caused this engine problem, MSIL could have easily declined the warranty on the engine and rubbed their hands off in the first place.

Clearly, there is more to something than meets the eye.

What if it wasn't documented on Team-BHP? What would have been the fate of this S-Cross then?

This is just another case of an unethical workshop. This particular workshop and it's chains should be avoided for life!!
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Old 1st June 2017, 11:33   #319
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by i74js View Post
... it is still okay.
Sorry, it definitely is not.

Here's the sequence of events as documented here:

1. A customer suffers a catastrophic engine failure and reports it to A.S.S., who promptly dismantle the engine without his knowledge (forget approval).

2. Superman technician concludes by an almighty 'smell test' that fuel adulteration is the culprit, while simultaneously gettting rid of all potential evidence pointing to the contrary within the engine and ancillaries.

3. Customer is handed a hefty quote for repairs. When he objects and pulls in the manufacturer, they give him the runaround for a month.

4. Maruti stands by the fuel adulteration claim, failing to explain how bad fuel managed to miraculously leave the entire fuel system unharmed (confirmed by OEM) while destroying a single engine cylinder. Customer has no way to rebut this nonsense because you know, something happened to the evidence before he even got to the scene of crime!

5. Magnanimous Maruti pretends to take the high road, and offers to share the cost as 'goodwill', a.k.a. 'we don't want this to get any uglier than it is'.

Nothing short of a FREE full powertrain replacement (including all ancillaries) would be OK in this case. Add in full warranty on replaced parts plus compensation for the crap the customer has been put through, then we're getting somewhere.

Honestly, if a Maruti owner paying close to 15 Lacs is going to get Skoda-esque service, why not buy a Skoda instead? He'll at least feel safer and have more fun driving until the damn thing breaks down.

A customer in India has no choice but to take what's thrown at him, but it's definitely NOT OK.

Congratulations Maruti, you just flushed your pretensions to Premium-ness down the toilet. Please stick to selling cheap tin-cans. You obviously don't know any better.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 1st June 2017 at 11:38.
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Old 1st June 2017, 13:58   #320
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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Sorry, it definitely is not.


Honestly, if a Maruti owner paying close to 15 Lacs is going to get Skoda-esque service, why not buy a Skoda instead? He'll at least feel safer and have more fun driving until the damn thing breaks down.

Please stick to selling cheap tin-cans. You obviously don't know any better.
About your​ take on the Skoda's choice, spot on mate. But most of the car owners in this country don't have this prerogative to have fun at the wheel. About the experience and thrill that driving can be and should be. I take it as a major stress buster. But for most it's what comes cheapest. That's what rules. In all choices of life here and not only driving.

For example even when buying an important thing like a house, people will go and buy something in a mosquito infested area with negligible fresh air and/or sunlight access and a huge sewage drain royally flowing just beside it along with the aroma just because it costs less than similar sized house in a more healthier environment price. :banghead:

Which brings us to your "cheap tin-can" remark. Well that's true also but why? Because people love the cheap tin cans! And they are in demand too. They sell. So MUL makes! Simple. If nobody bought them MUL would have shut shop long ago. They have proved they cannot make a decent higher quality product. They tried. Read Kizashi, Grand Vitara, S-Cross. The S-Cross had the highest discounts anyone ever heard of which ran into lacs shaved of the original price. Didn't help much though....

So they have good reason, actually more than one good reason, to conclude that making higher quality stuff just doesn't cut it. For them, that is. So heck, why not do something we're sooo good at! And folks are lapping it up too. And when someone suspects something just say the two holy words; FUEL ADULTERATION. Time for a new engine sir! Awesome, right? Even Merc doesn't give you a new engine so quick! So we're good :thumbup:

Again I don't wish to brand bash anyone. If I was a Maruti buyer I'd proudly own up to buying a cheap car. Well, it's cheap to run, cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, cheap to maintain,cheap to blow up too. Just add the magic potion called Adulterated Fuel and you're good to blow up the engine! Who gets magic potion for 65 buck odd? So if you're not very happy with how your engine runs, don't sweat, just add some diesel from your friendly neighborhood fuel bunk and what do you know, next month Maruti agrees to plonk in a new unit for you! Too good to be true!

Disclaimer: I'm not the owner of the original remark "cheap tin-can".
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Old 1st June 2017, 15:06   #321
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Honestly, if a Maruti owner paying close to 15 Lacs is going to get Skoda-esque service, why not buy a Skoda instead? He'll at least feel safer and have more fun driving until the damn thing breaks down.

A customer in India has no choice but to take what's thrown at him, but it's definitely NOT OK.

Congratulations Maruti, you just flushed your pretensions to Premium-ness down the toilet. Please stick to selling cheap tin-cans. You obviously don't know any better.
As you have rightly pointed, the way Maruti have handled this case proves that they are only good to sell cheap tin-cans. They may now look for partners to start "Maruti Authorised Fuel Station" and ask car owners to get the refilling done from such stations to get the warranty claims.

Last edited by deehunk : 1st June 2017 at 15:16.
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Old 1st June 2017, 15:25   #322
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

I only wish 100BHP had the time and will to put up the effort and drag the manufacturer to court just so that even if they resorted to high-handedness they would think twice before attempting such cheating again. It might have helped any future hapless customer from going through the swindling.

Because even if lots of clinching evidences might have been conveniently done away with, if I was in the judges place I'd simply ask MUL to recreate in front of the court how their claim holds firm that Adulterated Fuel could foul up just one piston and leave all the other components untouched. I doubt they would have been able to prove their homegrown logic.

Guess that's a lot of wishful thinking though. It's so depressing for everyone I wonder how 100BHP must be feeling. You're one brave soldier sir. Hats off.
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Old 1st June 2017, 16:19   #323
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

As far as I have been able to follow, 100BHPis still facing a cost of 1-lakh or more, plus a horrible uncertainty every time he puts fuel in the vehicle. I strongly suspect that he is going to have to go to an independent detailer to have the interior of his car brought back to satisfactory condition: the dealers don't seem to recognise what's needed.

Obviously, Maruti is popular. I'm sire that there is a lot of brand loyalty out there, but not as bad as cannot be equated to good. True, they have not kept 100BHP on the run in the courts as Skoda have in the past, but nor have they given a solution with much logic or generosity in it.

For each of us, there is a point at which we would rather pay up than face an unknown future period of hassle, possibly without even having a car to drive. That's a personal decision.
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Old 1st June 2017, 16:34   #324
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by pixantz View Post
...Because people love the cheap tin cans! And they are in demand too. They sell. So MUL makes! Simple......
You're absolutely right, and I have no right to object to either Maruti manufacturing tin-cans or people buying them. My rights begin and end at not patronizing them as a customer.


It's a demand/supply thing, and who am I to object? My tin-can comment was limited to my observation of them attempting desperately to don the 'Premium' tag, but unwilling to provide a 'Premium' experience.

Quote:
So they have good reason, actually more than one good reason, to conclude that making higher quality stuff just doesn't cut it.
Be that as it may (and kudos to them for capturing half of their target market), they're trying really hard to move into the 'Premium' segments with NEXA, but experiences like this show it takes more than visible bling to create a Premium experience.

No reason they still can't do it, but they'll need a huge attitude transplant. Quoting my own comment from earlier in this thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
.......Maruti need to be careful this doesn't spiral into a 'Maruti can't handle premium' situation.

That's a perception they've tried hard to get rid of, and ostensibly why they started NEXA in the first place.

For all their market share and goodwill with the masses, they're unproven in the premium segments and perceptions are hard to dislodge in India, even for the market leader.

I hope someone of consequence from HQ wakes up before this goes viral.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 1st June 2017 at 16:48. Reason: Removed irrelevant quote
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Old 1st June 2017, 16:47   #325
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

I do not believe in fuel adulteration theory. Also, it's very unlikely that it's some manufacturing defect. I still suspect Rohan Motors as the main culprit. Rohan Motors and Mr PK played all games. But, when the issue reached out to top management.. Things got better!! 100BHP is getting new engine assembly.

Maruti could have been more transparent and it might look like they are shielding the dealer. But, I am sure Maruti will act and take adequate actions against this horrible dealership.

Let's wait for 100bhp to get the car back as per his satisfaction and post the details here.

Cheers!!
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Old 1st June 2017, 16:59   #326
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Sorry, it definitely is not. Here's the sequence of events as documented here
You my friend have just summed it up brilliantly. All of these 20+ pages of discussion in just one single post. Hats off to you.

Being a Maruti lover myself, it is sad to see this case and the way they are handling it. Truth isn't being spoken out by the dealer and Maruti. Sad actually.

So much for the premium experience - Premium my foot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I do not believe in fuel adulteration theory.
This is a case related to the engine oil filled in.

Absolutely no connection whatsoever to the fuel added. It is not like only 100BHP filled fuel from that pump that day and no other vehicle did. It is as baseless as it can get plus the way they changed the whole case and investigation so smoothly + silently is mind boggling.

No point in raising further questions and creating assumptions for which answers would never be derived.

Let 100BHP get his car in the showroom condition as promised and drive it around peacefully. There ends the matter.

My last post in this thread. I give up!!
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Old 1st June 2017, 20:19   #327
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Why do manufacturers shove down the throat of customers the 'ADULTERATED FUEL' theory when they detect a manufacturing defect or ASC blunder in case of engine damage?

Filling fuel is the only thing that a car user does with respect to anything under the hood (apart from driving, of course ). Since they cannot say "Saar you should not have filled fuel", blame the fuel that you have filled.
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Old 1st June 2017, 20:32   #328
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Nalin1 View Post
Why do manufacturers shove down the throat of customers the 'ADULTERATED FUEL' theory when they detect a manufacturing defect or ASC blunder in case of engine damage?
There are many questions unanswered. What if Rohan Motors tampered with the fuel sample? After checking various threads on this forum about this dealer.. Take home message is "Stay away from this dealer". I have Baleno, S-Cross, SX4 and Maruti 800 in my garage and never ever had any issues with Maruti Suzuki. They were really helpful.

Maruti Suzuki is very strict against dealer malpractices. This case has got lot of social media coverage. As per my sources.. Maruti Suzuki is doing internal investigation against the dealer.
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Old 1st June 2017, 20:52   #329
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Irrespective of how this ends, this case has busted a bunch of Maruti myths.

Hassle-free ownership? Nope.
Peace of mind? Nope.
Exceptional customer service? Nope.
High professional standards? Nope.
Competent A.S.S.? Nope.
Company not afraid to take a dealer to task for malpractice (unprovable now because evidence was destroyed at A.S.S.)? Nope.
Well, it isn't a myth for some time now. At least, we know better - there are threads already running on the m.a.s.s competence and how they resort to fleece customers.

Personally, never felt Maruti service stations to be any better than competition. More in quantity, sure, but better in quality? Can't say. The *only* real advantage with Maruti is getting genuine spares easily and repairs that can be carried out at your trusted FNG.


Yes, it does feel frustrating reading about this ordeal. Unless our laws empower the consumer, there is not much we can do if we are wronged, except, take it out on social media. And hope, the company responds favourably to save their reputation. With brands like Skoda, even that doesn't work! Going legal in this country, unfortunately, is not an option for a common man.
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Old 1st June 2017, 20:53   #330
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
.....Maruti Suzuki is very strict against dealer malpractices.......
Forget what Maruti does to the dealer for a moment, Maruti hasn't even done right by the customer in this case, yet.

Anybody running a business worth anything will tell you, the first issue you solve is the customer's, then bother about everything else later.

Potentially clinching evidence has already been destroyed at the outset so nothing can be definitively proven (how convenient!), but one would be hard pressed to find a single neutral authority on diesel engines who buys Maruti's 'analysis'. There are people on this thread who have first-hand accounts of M.A.S.S. in-house 1.6 MJD technicians contradicting the company 'analysis', and at least one qualified diesel engine SME providing an expert's POV.

All Maruti have done so far is drag this out a month, still sticking to a bogus analysis and offering half-baked 'goodwill' when they should've picked up the whole tab and then some. This isn't just about an unscrupulous dealer anymore (never really was to be honest), this is about an unscrupulous manufacturer refusing to take responsibility for an end-customer.

Penny-wise, pound-foolish. Very, very foolish given it would've costed them virtually nothing to sort it out the moment they realized what had happened, which I'm pretty sure they know full well. You don't capture ~50% market share by being inept.

A really costly ~4 Lacs (or whatever a full 1.6MJD powertrain replacement costs), as I'm sure Maruti will figure out eventually. Slow, sarcastic

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 1st June 2017 at 20:56.
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