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Old 22nd May 2017, 12:59   #61
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Its really sad to see what your facing,i hope you get out of this fine and without paying a penny!

The very fact that codes were cleared and engine opened without your presence rings alarm bells.

You just shouldn't have let them do that.It would have been better if you had to lock your car and keep the key with you,chances of this mess you are in now would have been very few then.

Years back and i have posted this on another thread as well, i was a witness to a black sx4 which was parked and suddenly had its airbags deployed.
It was brought to the same centre where i worked and maruti had thier engineer fly from delhi to inspect the car.
For long hours he probed and checked with his multimeter and found nothing,absolutely nothing, no impact, nothing whatsoever.
Meanwhile they tried to find some way to offload this crap to the owner,but the engineer was adamant that there is no damage and hence the abs unit and related stuff such as sensors etc be sent to japan for further investigation.

They then replaced everything,but mind you when the customer came to collect the car he was specifically told that they have done this under goodwill as he is loyal customer of maruti for past many years.

Not once did they mention that there was no fault in the car and nor could they explain why the airbags deployed.
I feel in case of major issues its best to be present while the mystery unfolds.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 13:15   #62
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

I have noticed this very bad habit of MSIL: when they work behind the scenes of any reported issue, they don't communicate properly with the customer, and non-state actors who know absolutely nothing, like the person who sent that mail citing starting trouble/service centre guys continue uttering nonsense, often serving the customer with loads of horse crap. I don't remember the exact post and thread but I remember reading similar miscommunication from company's part, when one customer received a Swift which used to stall without warning.

It's another thing entirely that he was given a new car. But a proper communication and followup along with careful handling of the car doesn't cause the heartburn which Mohit sir is currently undergoing. I agree with Dr. Naren that the car should be moved to MSIL premises/another dealer who doesn't abuse the vehicle like this. A HU knob cannot go missing without any reason: I also know how these things (which aren't available separately/rare to find) are swapped/removed by mechanics.

Hope this ends on a positive note.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 13:40   #63
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

This is sad; I for one was considering S-Cross after it was launched for the driving pleasure and the built quality (offered by MSIL in S-Cross) but decided for EcoSport for the VFM it offered against 1.6 Alpha.

It is a clear case of negligence while servicing, unless the ASS comes out clean, which seems quite difficult.
MSIL as a company can absorb the cost and figure out limitations of this engine as 1.6 may be very different from 1.3 MJD in terms of tolerance. Also I remember that MSIL was not using the recommended engine oil in 1.3 MJD and changed it later on to 5W40 after some dispute was there between FCA and MSIL in honoring warranties. One needs to check as to what grade of oil was used by MSIL vis-a-vis what is recommended by FCA for 1.6 MJD.

In case of 1.6 engine also, there has been no fresh supplies by FCA to MSIL for production of 1.6 S-Cross; poor demand for the car may be cited as the principal reason, yet there are many who want to opt for 1.6 but have settled for 1.3 as the larger capacity engine is not available.

There is something big, which is known internally, yet the same is not out in public domain.

- Check the last service bill for consumables
- km done between last service and the engine failure
- bill for fuel that you last filled (also previous records for using the same fuel bunk if you have - may be credit card statements in case you don't have bills)

MSIL is riding high on the present launch of Dzire and thus it is advisable to reach out to higher ups - including independent directors (finding their email addresses should not be difficult as these are well known people, you can find the list of directors on SEBI website). At times independent directors in the interest of protecting shareholders value, follow up on such matters. A single mail from an independent director is enough for head of engineering to clear your case for engine replacement.

Availability of new engine - not sure about it, you may get a refurbished mill also.

Record all communications (use recording apps) make them repeat important diagnosis over phone and seek answer to same question from multiple connects within dealership and MSIL engineers.

Yes it is trouble, but you are surely going to get a resolution.


All the best !

Last edited by i74js : 22nd May 2017 at 13:42.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:02   #64
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

This is bonkers. Just when I though - the only Maruti I would love to own is an S-Cross 1.6; I came across this. I never thought Maruti could come up with the adulterated fuel as a reason to not honor the warranty.
I mean I knew they have adapted some extra ways from VW to fleece customers during service (plug change, charging for windscreen washer, additives and more), but I never imagined they can give same reasons as VW.

I thought VW is the only one fooling around with customer - this is coming from a Polo owner who had a hell of an unreliable machine with a hell of a ruthless OEM to make a perfect chaos for the owner - thats myself.

In btw:- I have seen HM-Mitsubishi honoring warranty and giving heavy goodwill discounts (after warranty) for multiple vehicles including cedia, outlander and pajeros.

JLR too has been kind to give a 50% off on compressor for a cousin's Evoque, when the warranty had just finished and the long issue of AC tripping resurfaced when the warranty got over. During the warranty, they honored any and every request.


My brother in law has a 1.3 S-Cross alpha model and he has been a very satisfied owner till now. Since last one week, he has faced an unusual issue of car suddenly refusing to start for a while. It however starts in about 15-20 mins. The first time he faced the issue, he was on greater noida expressway. He stopped the car to refuel, when he tried to start, the car just wont start.

It was evening time and he called the nexa helpline and the nearest service center was quick to respond. While the support was on the way, my brother in law cranked the engine and it start.

The issue repeated itself near our house and hence, the car is given at the service center today for problem diagnosis.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 22nd May 2017 at 14:03.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:09   #65
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
I have noticed this very bad habit of MSIL
Couldn't agree with you more.

The hush hush nature of the investigation puts even a CBI enquiry to shame. This is because no single person wants to own up the veracity of the diagnosis or has the ability to explain things in a clear manner to the customer. The ignorance / inability of the customer to grasp the matter too, at times, contributes to this. Once they realise that the car owner is knowledgeable and understands the technicalities of the problem, they do become a bit more forthright.

However, in the instant case, the MASS itself appears to be an incompetent one, with zero knowledge of handling the 1.6 engine. The Maruti folks are just trying to cover this up in order to protect their franchisee from accusations of wrongdoing/mishandling.

The Swift thread you referred to is hereand here.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:14   #66
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100BHP View Post

When I opened the bonnet to see the engine bay, I was shocked. It looked like someone has taken the hose of oil & sprayed liberally on the engine bay. Every part of the bay was covered in oil, battery tray was in half a cm deep pool of oil The hood was covered in oil from inside .

I tried calling Rana Motors at their help line all day but nobody picked up the phone.


Day 2 (2nd May) : Started calling the Rana Motors again ......

Day 3 (3rd May) : The MASS guy from Rohan Motors Greater Noida reached promptly on time & I had to re register the call again at nexa help line . He opened the hood & checked the bay visually. When he opened the air filter, it was time for 2nd shock – there was a pool of oil inside the filter box also. He cleaned the bottom of box promptly with cloth – so my pic here does not show the original pool of oil........
Day 4th : Mr. PK (Let’s call him this now) called from Delhi office & told me that he had received instructions from factory to inspect the car himself....

Day 5th : Didn’t received any call till 11 AM – so I was getting anxious, I Called PK & he told me that he was already at Rohan’s . So, I promptly rushed to Rohan’s . When I saw the group of people poking inside & outside the car with laptop etc.........
Dear 100BHP, it is so sad to read and see the pictures of your beloved car.
However, after reading the post I feel you have been very easy on MASS in your initial days.
  1. After seeing the oil in engine bay, you shouldn't have waited for 2 days to get your car towed to Rana Motors. Moreover the MASS which doesn't shows urgency in such situation, you shouldn't have towed your car to them. Every MASS can honor warranty and can't deny you of service or handling such situations.
  2. When the car was towed, you should have got the engine scan done in front of you and take pictures of error codes. Additionally you should have also taken a sample of Diesel from your fuel tank.
  3. When you visited the service center and saw your car in such a pathetic state, you should have created a ruckus there and then. Have you raised this issue with MD of dealership and Maruti?
However what has been done is done. Some of my suggestions are:
  1. Don't fall for the adulterated fuel story. Please mention in your emails that there is a fuel filter and warning symbol in instrument cluster to point this out. Also if this is the case, ECU would have logged this error for sure. The No error code story clearly contradicts this as well.
  2. Can you check your last bill to find out the quantity of oil that was filled. This primarily looks like a case of over filling the engine oil.
  3. Please seek an appointment with CV Raman / Maruti regional manager to discuss this issue. Writing emails to customer care is of no use. The tone of emails received is too casual and I am doubtful of any sincerity being shown towards this issue.
  4. Speak to the MD of the dealership and make it clear that you are not going to fall for these stories. Also make it clear to them in a polite way that you are considering legal options.
  5. Discuss this case with a lawyer and serve them a notice if you don't see things going in the right direction for next one month or so. Try your best to sort things amicably, however be firm.
  6. In worst case scenario, get your car repaired at your expense and then file a case against Maruti and the dealer. Please don't let your car rot at the dealership like Harish. Link (Skoda dealer changes parts in my car = Consumer Court. *UPDATE* Case Settled!)
I hope Maruti replaces the engine under warranty and saves their reputation. Good luck, please keep us posted.

Last edited by PraNeel : 22nd May 2017 at 14:16.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:33   #67
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
@100BHP : I have no trust left on this service centre. If possible, try to get the repairs done from a better dealer. We do not know yet if extra oil caused this damage. But the service centre guys have gifted you dents, spoilt the interiors and HU knob is also missing.
Maybe it is just my lack of experience, but the state of the engine and car looks like it has been handled by wreckers, not mechanics. This does not look to me like a disassembly that anyone ever had any interest in re-assembling, or even keeping for serious investigation. With oil spray, some gasket, seal, hose or connector must have failed. Where are those parts? Was the leak ever identified even.

It looks to me as if, even if the engine was repairable, it might not be now. And maybe that is convenient to someone?

ok... I'm doing a conspiracy-theory imagination thing here... but everything just looks wrong.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:38   #68
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post



My brother in law has a 1.3 S-Cross alpha model and he has been a very satisfied owner till now. Since last one week, he has faced an unusual issue of car suddenly refusing to start for a while. It however starts in about 15-20 mins. The first time he faced the issue, he was on greater noida expressway. He stopped the car to refuel, when he tried to start, the car just wont start.
Its the starter motor trouble - when hot. Ask your BIL to confirm if he faces trouble when the car is cold - I bet he will never have faced it; the problem surfaces when the engine is hot.

This is a simple one time fix and should not surface again. If in warranty it will be done free of cost.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:38   #69
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
I have noticed this very bad habit of MSIL: when they work behind the scenes of any reported issue, they don't communicate properly with the customer, and non-state actors who know absolutely nothing, like the person who sent that mail citing starting trouble/service centre guys continue uttering nonsense, often serving the customer with loads of horse crap. I don't remember the exact post and thread but I remember reading similar miscommunication from company's part, when one customer received a Swift which used to stall without warning.
Unfortunately that is how it is with most companies. The customer representative replies with the standard parroting without having an idea of what is happening in the back end. They are simply process driven and practice religiously irrespective of such a reply sounds stupid or not. Sometimes it looks bots replying. FCA facebook page is one such place

There is more to the issue than what the service center folks are parroting. Unless Maruti takes it up, this will be going all over the place and the customer will continue to pay EMIs while the car is rusting in the workshop.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:39   #70
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

This is a catastrophic failure of the fan following 320 DDIS engine.

Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine-76.jpg

Air filter clearly shows that it was replaced during the 20k kms service and we can safely conclude that everything went wrong post that.
All the damage in next 1500 kms can only result by some blunder work done during the 20k kms service @ Rana Motors Okhla.
From all the observations, overfilling of engine oil seems to be the only cause.

Fuel adulteration as the cause is completely baseless and whosoever says that has no clue about diesel engines.
The most alarming part is that it has come from Maruti’s technical team (Mr. PK & team) and not even MASS ( Rohan Motor).

Second disturbing part is that OP handed over the car to Maruti/MASS with an error code and now Maruti/MASS team simply declining of any error code record.
Its hard to believe that there would be no error code with such a failure. Hence, I strongly feel they have deleted the error code after realizing the cause of failure.

Handling of the car & Repair work at Rohan Motors (MASS) has been ridiculous.
a) Head unit knob missing
b) Turbo lying in one corner
c) Injectors dumped somewhere on the seat.
d) Miscellaneous dirty parts on the seat.
e) Mighty expensive catalytic converter lying in the middles of all stuff.

Really painful to see the pictures. Horrendous management & workmanship ! by Rohan Motors


The whole Maruti’s mega service back-up image has been futile so far.

Quoting from the Nexa Launch
"Nexa is going to be an integrated design, hospitality and lifetime relationship experience" said Kenichi Ayukawa MD & CEO, Maruti Suzuki India.
Kenichi san : Is this what we get for being a Nexa customer ?



Hope someone sensible at MUL takes charge of this case, accepts the defect or service lapse and provides an engine replacement on goodwill basis.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:40   #71
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Damn, those pictures hurt.

Even if they are ready to replace the engine at their cost, I reckon it would be really difficult for you to accept this car back. We really need consumer friends laws & law makers who could enforce those laws. Till then, we consumers just have to bear with these so called giants.

I hope you come out of this soon and unscathed.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:41   #72
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

MASS reliability and service standards are all shit.

I had a almost near death accident on the Mumbai Pune expressway in 2013 due to the ASB failure at high speeds and MASS blamed it on my driving skills. These people in Gurgaon are not as competent and value for money as they may have you believe.

It took them 3 months to repair my car and insurance took only 2 days to clear the coverage costs and reason for this being that parts had to be ordered from Gurgaon as they had run out of them in Mumbai. So stupid it made my blood boil and to top it off no temp car for use till then.

I will never buy a MASS product again in my life, they maybe value for money but the quality of service has declined massively over the years. Now their PR is just selling and they are lucky that all others are equally incompetent as well.

Value for money in India is a myth. We are getting ripped off on a massive scale that it seems normal now. Anywhere else in the world MASS would have been sued for substandard quality and been made to compensate the customers like what happened to VW or GM or Toyota.

I had a cousin come down from the states and he couldn't believe how stupid the service people are at Maruti and noticed how no one knows anything.

Unsolicited advice to MASS: Concentrate on quality instead of quantity. You have already cluttered our roads with scampering rats just don't make them into death traps also.

Apurva

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 22nd May 2017 at 17:01. Reason: Removing expletive. Also please post only in English.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:41   #73
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by i74js View Post
Also I remember that MSIL was not using the recommended engine oil in 1.3 MJD and changed it later on to 5W40 after some dispute was there between FCA and MSIL in honoring warranties. One needs to check as to what grade of oil was used by MSIL vis-a-vis what is recommended by FCA for 1.6 MJD.
Can you shed some more light on 5w30 vs 5w40 please since this is a very HUGE piece of information. Recently I had to change the engine oil of my Ertiga outside (at a Shell bunk) due to a sudden long trip and they suggested 5w40 and I went for it. After that I read conflicting stories on 5w30 vs 40 for 1.3 ddis. So any more information of this would be helpful.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:43   #74
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr View Post
I would suggest 100bhp to post minimal details in writing especially if he is taking Nexa to court. The key in legal language is not to share too much details especially those details that can go against you. Now Nexa can use this driving post malfunction indicator on as an issue. Please think before sharing details and especially do not share the details that Nexa can hold against you



All these seem like letters written by the author to Nexa. Best to have all these communications on phone and have only the major 2-3 sentences written to Nexa over email. Some of the things here might highlight owner mistake and Nexa can use them against the owner

Brevity is the key in legal issues including official when one sends email. One should have a written record but only that much that suffices from legal purposes

Apologies to differ in opinion. Whenever a matter comes up before the Judiciary for adjudication, all aspects associated with the incident and the chain of events leading to the same are required to be presented in full earnest. Even if the OP attempts to conceal any aspect relating to the case, the counsel on behalf of the defendants (viz., Maruti and Rohan) would easily identify the missing link between the places i.e., place where the car was broken down and the place from where the car was picked up for service. The vehicle log would also suggest the KM reading when the Engine Malfunction Warning lighted up and the current Km reading available on the car. All these would show that the OP had indeed driven the car for certain KM’s after the warning sign had come up. This would only be held against the OP as he has attempted contempt of judiciary by hiding this vital information.

Here the OP has faithfully represented all the facts associated with his case and one must lend full appreciation for his honesty and truthfulness, an aspect for which Team BHP also stands firmly. Assuming a situation where the OP had concealed such facts on this forum, other members would have not been aware of such activity and their opinion would remain based on the one side of the coin that was shown to them. As such, the suggestions provided by members here would serve no purpose to the OP, except for providing a temporal consolation. Besides, I can see few members here have approached MSIL in their personal capacity, seeking resolution, on this case. This action is purely on the assumption that the contents presented here by OP are complete and true. Any hideous information, if revealed later would only place such members in a precarious situation. This is something which is undesirable for a forum like Team-BHP.

Having presented full facts in all earnest, the OP has allowed all members to assess his case clearly and in all just, so that the experts over here can provide their suggestions unbiased and in a fully informed manner. I stand with the OP here.

Last edited by King_pin09 : 22nd May 2017 at 14:47.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 14:47   #75
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Default Re: Maruti S-Cross 1.6L – Sudden death of the 320 DDiS engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
Can you shed some more light on 5w30 vs 5w40 please since this is a very HUGE piece of information. Recently I had to change the engine oil of my Ertiga outside (at a Shell bunk) due to a sudden long trip and they suggested 5w40 and I went for it. After that I read conflicting stories on 5w30 vs 40 for 1.3 ddis. So any more information of this would be helpful.
Please check this discussion on the forum about 1.3 DDiS engine. You will find the MSIL circular on page 1 itself

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...5w40-5w40.html (Maruti Circular on Swift Engine Oil : Change from 15W40 to 5W40)

Ertiga, Baleno, Brezza, Swift, Dzire, Ciaz and 1.3 S-Scross share the same engine with FGT or VGT i.e. 75 bhp or 90 bhp tune. No need to worry, the suggestion made is correct it has to be 5W40, which is recommanded by FCA for 1.3 DDiS but was not followed by MSIL earlier and FCA refused to honor claims on the engines supplied by them.

It is important to note here that MSIL produces engines under licence from FCA as well as directly procures engines produced by FCA in India.

Last edited by i74js : 22nd May 2017 at 14:55.
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