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Old 2nd June 2017, 20:19   #16
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

These are the smallest basics of making a car in the modern age. Even fit and finish and build quality come later. So a brand llike Toyota, I would not readily believe that it is a QC defect.

As others said, very likely that it has happened to due to some damage at the dealer's yard. Did you do the full PDI as per Team Bhp? Do you remember finding any rough edges or paint differences at that time you probably discarded?

In any case, I would like to see how the dealer handles it. And even if it is handled well enough at the dealer level, do ask them for a plausible explanation and if not given, make sure to send a mail to Toyota asking them about this. A 20 lac rupee car with a fault as basic as this deserves an explanation.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 20:56   #17
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

From my recent car buying experience, at what ever price you pay, its better we accept the fact, its a man made machine after all, and cunning that man is, you will always feel you are not getting the bang for your buck..you can start wanting to buy a nano, and realise you are not able to stop at a point. whats the best your money can buy? Toyota? Rolls or Bugati, its not clear, looks like even the guy who drives a lambo has complaints, and I swear I saw a video on you tube.

That's a great car you have buddy, at its price, go get it fixed and enjoy it.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 20:57   #18
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Default Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality cont...

Toyota is definitely losing it's grip like Honda has been. I sold my own Crysta (wasn't satisfied with the way the car felt like my friends decade old Innova does) within 3 weeks of ownership to a friend of mine at a loss 2 lakhs!
To date, he curses me for selling him a lemon.

At the time I had the car it was full of rattles and some issues with passenger side door which was fixed only after replacing the complete door!

Even as of typing this post, the car is at a Toyota workshop for windshield replacement as water was seeping inside the cabin from driver side grooves and a stone chip. (This is it's second replacement, first was due to a crack from a small stone chip)

Although dealership has always been quick at resolving the issues, I will never be going for another Toyota anytime soon just for their after sale services rather than the product itself.

Hope your problem gets fixed asap and you get a fuss-free experience for miles to come!

Last edited by Ruchir031 : 2nd June 2017 at 21:24.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 22:28   #19
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My one year old ZX rattles and some minor cracks developed on the wooden part on steering.

The panels are loosely fitted and have seen cup holder coming out with minor jerk.

Shame on you Toyota for charging a premium on a below par quality product.

My previous Hyundai sedan was rattle free for 7 years and felt tighter than Crysta.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 23:18   #20
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Shreyas, sorry to see that. Moving your post to a new thread.

Toyota's dealers are good, so your problem should be sorted soon. I have no concerns there. But my bigger worry is, I've never seen these kind of threads or posts on the older Innova. Here's the other niggles thread on the Innova Crysta - link (Niggles & issues with the Toyota Innova Crysta).

On the one hand, Toyota raises the Innova's prices to incredibly high levels. On the other, reliability - which is the Innova's biggest selling point - has suffered?

Toyota cannot afford to take its eye off the ball. So damn careless. We've seen the same lapses with Honda, another stalwart of reliability.
Overconfidence and complacency on part of Toyota. And why not? When people line up like sheep to buy at any price, such things are bound to happen. But, it doesn't take too long for things to go south. Honda's overconfidence has been given thumbs down. Next it is Toyota's turn. Suzuki (read Maruti) is one Japanese brand which doesn't have its head in the clouds.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 23:46   #21
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Post Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Suzuki (read Maruti) is one Japanese brand which doesn't have its head in the clouds.
yeah, inspite of ignoring the famous brake issues with the Swift Diesels, and inspite of continuing with their ever rattling designs and even providing a different structural integrity for swift sold in India vs the same vehicle exported, we still queue up for a new Maruti release. And we still believe the myth that "Maruti is cheap to maintain" when the likes of Ford and Tata are cheaper to maintain than a Maruti these days.

Having said that, the only brand which was left in the market who cared about durability ( aka Toyota ) seems to be losing the focus and is just trying to become something else by flooding the vehicle with features and forgetting what they are respected for all these years. I was seriously researching on Crysta as my next vehicle. I have put it on hold atleast for now. Will wait and watch how Toyota resolves these problems.

Last edited by amalji : 2nd June 2017 at 23:49.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 00:31   #22
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Honda's overconfidence has been given thumbs down. Next it is Toyota's turn. Suzuki (read Maruti) is one Japanese brand which doesn't have its head in the clouds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
yeah, inspite of ignoring the famous brake issues with the Swift Diesels, and inspite of continuing with their ever rattling designs and even providing a different structural integrity for swift sold in India vs the same vehicle exported, we still queue up for a new Maruti release.
Probably what he meant is that Maruti doesn't demand a premium for "Japanese quality" which the others like Toyota, Honda and Nissan seem to be doing recently. All three have been echoing the "premium, premium" chant these days whereas the product quality has not been a big differentiating factor compared to others like Suzuki.

Either maintain prices high and offer unquestionable quality, or lower the prices and make it reasonable. Or find a balance between these extremes like Hyundai did.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 02:24   #23
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

I've never been much of a fan of Japanese cars, even in their prime age of "quality" they have at best been a jack of all and master of none.. they simply do not have that 'it' factor that draws the people towards them, rather they've always been preferred simply because they were affordable, reliable and somewhat.. well designed, though not anymore today.

I've heard enough quality problems about the prev-gen Honda City, a colleague paid 14L for one only to complain of a new problem every month be it rattles, break-downs or simply parts falling off every which way, he now has an i20 and seems to be very happy with it.

There were reports in this very forum about Toyota Etios which when first launched, didn't even come with weather gaskets on the doors and also had rattles all over the place. The current Etios though vastly improved is still far from a good car. I've personally experienced the passenger side of things in the new Innova and again nothing was upto the mark be it comfort, build or noise isolation, all this for a car that costs upwards of Rs.25 lakhs (just for reference BMW had a brand new X1 for sale 3 years ago for that SAME price).

@Shreyas I'd gone through your ownership report, this problem is never expected by anyone buying a car and its very unfortunate that one has to see water dripping off the roof after spending a mini fortune on the car. If possible take the issue to the highest levels of the company which simply boasts (lies) of quality and shouts from the rooftops about it and yet does such things which are inexcusable to say the least.. in my eyes this is a lemon.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 05:26   #24
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

It's really unfortunate to experience these issues in a brand new car. I am assuming that you had done a proper PDI, which eliminates all other probabilities like damaged car during transit and subsequently repaired etc. I am assuming that this is a QC issue right from the factory.

What I'd recommend:


-Get that roof lining carefully removed in front of you, and make sure they handle everything carefully. One of the negatives in opening these things is that fit and finish no longer remains as good as factory finish, and that is primarily because of the way dealerships handle cars. Look at the S Cross 1.6 thread and see how the car is getting abused in the dealer premises. With a little bit of care, you can ensure that work is perfect. Removing the roof lining will leave little chances of doubt.

-Then have a shower test, and observe the point of water entry. I have little doubts on the windshield because its a semi automated process in the factory, and has very little scope of error. My doubt is on the antenna hole. Alternatively you can ask them to first reinstall the sharkfin antenna using new rubber gasket(if its fixable from the outside) and then have a detailed shower check and confirm.

When you have confirmed that its really the windshield, then only allow them to remove it. I have personally experienced this in some older cars(like the Swift) where water seems to be seeping from windshield but its actually from the antenna hole in the roof at the rear. Water easily flows to the front.

But before all this, make sure that you have the attention of the highest management guys at Toyota India. Don't let this be a local SVC issue.

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 3rd June 2017, 09:37   #25
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

Whoa! A car that has internal leaks within days of purchase would be a disappointment for any owner. A definite blot on Toyota's quality claims.

It's either the sharkfin antenna or a windshield installation error. Thing is, all cars are shower tested for leakage before leaving the factory and I really wonder how this one got through QC.

My Altis had squeaky front brakes right out of the factory. About 15-20 days after delivery I got a call from the dealership. They had been instructed by TKM to replace the front brake pads on certain batches of cars. The car's brakes and other systems have been running fautlessly without issues for nearly 9 years since.

So, just take it to the dealer and get it fixed.

These are mass manufactured cars and sometimes one winds up with a vehicle that is less than satisfactory. The good thing is TKM and their dealers really listen to the customer. Send an email to voc at toyota-kirloskar .co .in with your car's details to get their attention. The dealer will be automatically brought into the loop.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 09:42   #26
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post

It's either the sharkfin antenna or a windshield installation error. Thing is, all cars are shower tested for leakage before leaving the factory and I really wonder how this one got through QC.

.
Another reason which leads me to believe it is the sharkfin antenna. If it was the windshield, then any leak would be immediately visible during the short period of shower test.

When it leaks from the antenna hole, often it takes a bit longer for the water to leak from front, wetting the roof's inner noise insulation in process. This can often go unnoticed if the shower duration isn't too long, as there are way too many hurdles to pass through.

Just my two cents!!

Regards,
Shashi
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Old 3rd June 2017, 10:16   #27
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
Another reason which leads me to believe it is the sharkfin antenna. If it was the windshield, then any leak would be immediately visible during the short period of shower test.
It has to be the shakfin antenna. I don't see a reason why the water would leak from the ambient lighting area if the problem was with the windshield. Also from the video, I couldn't make out even a drop of water leaking from the windshield but only the lights. I could be wrong but that's what I think.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 11:11   #28
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Oh my God! I can relate with the annoyance this issue can cause. I was having similar issue of water leaking into my Grande Punto during rains. Water was collecting in the rear left foot well when the downpour is heavy.

After a couple unsuccessful attempts to identity the cause through shower tests at more than one Fiat service centre, took the car to an independent garage in Chennai.

They zeroed in on the rear windshield and removed and refitted it twice! Still the issue persisted. Finally the issue was found to be with the rear high mounted stop lamp! The rubber gasket of the HMSL had given way! Fitted it using windshield adhesive and now all is well.

This took almost 6 months of trial and error and a lot of mental annoyance!
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Old 3rd June 2017, 11:54   #29
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

Mod note: Post EDITED. Please avoid Quoting entire large posts for replies. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
All cars undergo a shower test after manufacturing. This should have been caught there!
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
After coming across numerous Crystas d
=====
so would pass off in the shower test!
I will surely ask the GM Service about this.If it was a manufacturing defect then it should surely be detected during a shower test as the water was flowing like hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
I'm curious why so many all new Innovas are already on the second hand market in less than a year. A quick Mumbai search also showed as many as 8 innovas for sale. This was never the case with the old Innova.
The same happened with the Rexton when the buyers discovered the niggles in it and the leak explains everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Did your Crysta have a windshield replacement? If not, then I am surprised that this went unnoticed, as this would have got wet even with a wash.
No, it was not replaced since we bought it. The car was washed almost everyday and even during the first service of the car but this issue never occured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Shreyas, sorry to see that. Moving your post to a new thread.
Thanks for doing so, I too wanted to create a thread but thought that it would later be merged.

Quote:
Toyota's dealers are good, so your problem should be sorted soon. I have no concerns there.
My dealer's service staff is not at all professional. Yesterday, they said that we would return your car by today evening but today they say, " we will return your car by tomorrow evening." What the Hell? After troubling me so much they want me to get even more FRUSTRATED.

Quote:
But my bigger worry is, I've never seen these kind of threads or posts on the older Innova.
I was also a proud owner of a 2009 Innova and sold her off with 2,00,000 kms on the clock and blind faith in Toyota.

Quote:
Here's the other niggles thread on the Innova Crysta - link (Niggles & issues with the Toyota Innova Crysta).
The faith was so blind that I believed such a thread could not exist.

Quote:

On the one hand, Toyota raises the Innova's prices to incredibly high levels. On the other, reliability - which is the Innova's biggest selling point - has suffered?
We certainly paid a 3-4 lakh premium for the qualiity which now I doubt if ever existed.

I also request you to edit your post and write "which is the Innova's only selling point" as there are many MPVs that perform better than Innova on all other points.

Quote:
Toyota cannot afford to take its eye off the ball. So damn careless. We've seen the same lapses with Honda, another stalwart of reliability.
Their whole company stands on the pillar of reliability. Hondas were sold for practicality and decent pricing but Toyotas are only bought because they never break down. This was also the statement of Richard Hammond during the review of toyota aygo ( Top Gear Season 6 Episode 1). After all this is the company which published this advert



Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpian View Post
Seriously what is wrong with these auto manufacturers,first we see 1.6 s cross issue and now this innova.

Now what is the new buyer suppose to do? Get the car washed and checked while taking delivery?
The least they can do is at-least be super pro-active and have it resolved on high priority.
Please keep us updated.
At least marutis are VFM but Toyotas are simply overpriced due to their reliability which is now endangered.

After being pro active they said that they will take 2 days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
27 lakhs for a MPV from the famed Toyota. People buy an Innova with blind trust, not even looking at competition and they pay a good 3-4 lakhs premium over other brands for this faith in reliability.

Net result is a week old car leaks water like a auto rickshaw. This is absolutely ridiculous.
The same blind trust of which I became a victim. Completely ridiculous, I think they should remove the 'quality revolution' which they write below their logo.


Quote:
Are we supposed to accept this from Toyota? Are Toyota ok with this? Do they think they can charge a premium just because they are better than the competition in reliability and Quality.
No, after paying 25 lakhs for a car I don't expect this but I think they are ok with this because when I posted about this on their twitter handle, they asked for my details but I was never contacted by them.

Yes they think that they can charge a premium and have been charging it for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
@Shreyas- this is terrible.
====
To think that Toyota has scaled down quality standards in a vehicle this revered for its quality just makes me angry.
I tried to escalate to Toyota management through their twitter handle. They asked for my details which were provided ASAP but they did not bother.

I haven't heard of such an issue even in the cars of my grandpa's time. This happening was a nightmare come true for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpzen View Post
I think the windscreen got replaced at Dealer end due to some reason.
====
Can you check any other Crysta and compare the glass (Sticker etc )?
I think this is highly unlikely as a sticker which stated when the car was manufactured, engine number, chassis number was present on the windshield. Also, the RFID tag was present and I think it cannot be copied so soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiloAlpha View Post
I highly doubt that it is the windshield leaking.
====
And, given that dealers in our country are allergic to problem solving, try and make sure they do that in your presence.

I asked him about it, he said that is the windshield issue but we will check for antenna too and there is no need to remove the roof lining as these are the only two possible entry points.

Quote:
Oh! And, please do raise this to Toyota Bharat via social media; make a stink about it.
I tried to do so using twitter but they did not bother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkveda View Post
Where is the water leaking from? Is it from the wind shield OR from the frame of the video monitor?
====
Pardon my ignorance, but, if possible, can you please carefully observe and specify where exactly is the water seeping in?
It is seeping from the panel which contains the reading lights and ambient lighting. According to the SA it is seeping from the place where windshield is glued to the roof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by narendra.vw View Post
I suspect roof antenna. It's seal should be having a gap.
Even it's located at the back, water can easily flow to the front side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
I had faced this issue when accessory guy (Evo owned by a bhpian) installed low quality antenna on my Spark (way back in 2009). Water was seeping through the rubber mounting and leaked to the cabin through interior light.
======
edit: @narendra.vw - Agree - looks like antenna is the culprit
I asked the service advisor about it. He said that we will also check that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
We already have a seperate niggles thread for the Crysta, and to see this new issue pop up in a brand new car, is disappointing to say the least.
=========
Hope your predicament comes to an end soon.

Regards,
vishy
Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
These are the smallest basics of making a car in the modern age. Even fit and finish and build quality come later. So a brand llike Toyota, I would not readily believe that it is a QC defect.
====
And even if it is handled well enough at the dealer level, do ask them for a plausible explanation and if not given, make sure to send a mail to Toyota asking them about this. A 20 lac rupee car with a fault as basic as this deserves an explanation.
I checked everything before delivery but all was fine or it could be my ignorance. My car is now with the dealer and the windshield is being replaced so cannot check it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auto freak View Post
Oh my God! I can relate with the annoyance this issue can cause.
=========
This took almost 6 months of trial and error and a lot of mental annoyance!

I think you are a very patient guy, if I were you there would already be a lawsuit running gainst FIAT India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruchir031 View Post
It has to be the shakfin antenna.
==========
Just my two cents!!

Regards,
Shashi

Yes, you are right I have told them to check the antenna as well because this issue would also be visible during a 5 minute car wash if it was the windshield but if it is the antenna then it would take about 15-20 minutes to enter the car and the same happened on that fateful day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Whoa! A car that has internal leaks within days of purchase would be a disappointment for any owner. A definite blot on Toyota's quality claims.
===
The dealer will be automatically brought into the loop.

I have already written on their twitter page but no response. Now, I would use the mail id given by you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
It's really unfortunate to experience these issues in a brand new car.
==========
But before all this, make sure that you have the attention of the highest management guys at Toyota India. Don't let this be a local SVC issue.

Regards,
Shashi

I am trying my best to escalate the issue. As mentioned earlier they have already removed the windshield but I have told them to check the antenna as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
I've never been much of a fan of Japanese cars,
=====
which simply boasts (lies) of quality and shouts from the rooftops about it and yet does such things which are inexcusable to say the least.. in my eyes this is a lemon.

But I don't think my car would be replaced, so I have to live with it even it is a lemon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiJack View Post
From my recent car buying experience, at what ever price you pay,
=====
That's a great car you have buddy, at its price, go get it fixed and enjoy it.
I think after paying a 3-4 lakh premium for quality, I don't expect to hear such a statement from a BHPian. The lambo and bugatti guy paid for speed, the rolls guy paid for luxury but I paid for QUALITY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruchir031 View Post
Toyota is definitely losing it's grip like Honda has been.
======
Hope your problem gets fixed asap and you get a fuss-free experience for miles to come!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeep.pandya View Post
My one year old ZX rattles and some minor cracks developed on the wooden part on steering.
=======
My previous Hyundai sedan was rattle free for 7 years and felt tighter than Crysta.
I am not surprised to hear this after experiencing a new age toyota myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Overconfidence and complacency on part of Toyota. And why not? When people line up like sheep to buy at any price, such things are bound to happen. But, it doesn't take too long for things to go south. Honda's overconfidence has been given thumbs down. Next it is Toyota's turn. Suzuki (read Maruti) is one Japanese brand which doesn't have its head in the clouds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
yeah, inspite of ignoring the famous brake issues with the Swift Diesels,
======
I was seriously researching on Crysta as my next vehicle. I have put it on hold atleast for now. Will wait and watch how Toyota resolves these problems.

At least most of the marutis are VFM and don't command a premium just because they are reliable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Probably what he meant is that Maruti
=======
Either maintain prices high and offer unquestionable quality, or lower the prices and make it reasonable. Or find a balance between these extremes like Hyundai did.

Exactly, toyota earlier provided high prices with unquestionable quality but now things have changed.

EDIT: Toyota replied this when we told them that our car is being serviced at Sunny Toyota,"Thank you for the update. Please let us know once the issue gets resolved."

I think they should at least call me and give me a possible explanation about why did the issue even occur.

Last edited by Jaggu : 3rd June 2017 at 18:36. Reason: Please avoid Quoting entire large posts for replies. Thanks.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 12:49   #30
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Default Re: Water leakage in my new Innova Crysta - where has Toyota's famed quality control gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyas Agarwal View Post
I will surely ask the GM Service about this.If it was a manufacturing defect then it should surely be detected during a shower test as the water was flowing like hell.
Quote:
My dealer's service staff is not at all professional. Yesterday, they said that we would return your car by today evening but today they say, " we will return your car by tomorrow evening." What the Hell? After troubling me so much they want me to get even more FRUSTRATED.
Quote:
EDIT: Toyota replied this when we told them that our car is being serviced at Sunny Toyota,"Thank you for the update. Please let us know once the issue gets resolved."
Please don't take delivery of the car unless Toyota is involved.

Something has gone wrong: either during manufacturing- which is a massive cause of concern for Toyota, or at the dealer- which should be brought out in the open in front of both, Toyota and you.

Tweet, write on their facebook wall, email the higher-ups; do what you have to do. Posting here certainly goes a long way.

But Toyota *has* to be involved in the resolution; this is a fairly serious issue.

Good luck!
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