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Old 3rd July 2017, 19:17   #1
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Default Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

This has always puzzled me and I'm not the type of person to ask a question ever, nor there has ever been a discussion on this question anywhere.. these days I'm observing that most cars, specially high-end ones and spreading quickly to the lower end ones have done away with the lower-bumper front foglamps. Some examples :

2017 Merc E-Class, GLC, S-Class and A-Class

2017 Volvo S90 and many others

2017 Audi A4, Q3, some variants of Q5 etc.

2017 Hyundai Elantra, Sonata (U.S variants) have DRL's in place of fogs.

Jag XF, F-Type

2017 Corolla (yikes the bumper style lol)

And many more. Here are some of the reasons possible for high-end cars - projector lamps, bending lights, white ARL's (All-time lights?), lazer lights etc. Even base models of car manufacturers like Honda, Hyundai, Toyota have no fogs and not many people seem to complain.

Somehow all these days, the sight of a separated pair of fog-lamps below the headlights made it known to all that the variant was the highest one available and also added a bit of glitz to the front end due to the mirror effect. Today many things have taken their place such as air curtains, DRL's or simply, a black plastic housing grill. Somehow BMW is still sticking to the round fog-lamps in most models though getting smaller by the year.

Thoughts?

Last edited by tsk1979 : 8th July 2017 at 12:53.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 19:37   #2
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Default re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

Quote:
Not only will fog lights be unnecessary, she added, but “maybe there won’t be headlights at all.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/29/a...disappear.html
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Old 3rd July 2017, 23:45   #3
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Default re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

Wow! I didn't even notice their absence, frankly. Maybe because the DRLs do a good job of grabbing attention.

I had noticed it when the ASEAN/JDM Camry was said to have fog lamps as a differentiating feature from the USDM Camry, but then I always felt that Toyota/Honda sedans for the USDM always had a bland,meh! face compared to their ASEAN versions. so didn't care much about the absence of fog lamps or even notice it.

Even in the case of Corolla, while the US has only DRLs, the one we get here has integrated bumper fog lamps.

Maybe its some market thingy, but again it's only the sedans. The subcompact and crossover/SUVs in USA still have separate foglamps.

P.S Though I bemoan the fact that fog lamps are absent, I cant help but point out a couple of things.

1. The OEM weak fog lamps were anyways used mostly for ornamental purpose, like,
" Cool. I got four lights in front of my car " and that poser function has now been taken over by DRLs.

2. Good riddance to those (no offence) Vento/Rapid idiots who think they
are cool by driving with their fog lamps on, but unwittingly cause irritation to the traffic behind with the garish red rear
fog lamp.

Last edited by DicKy : 3rd July 2017 at 23:53.
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Old 4th July 2017, 00:00   #4
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Default re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

But these fog lamps actually help here in India - they help light up the immediate front - and hence help us better see the state of road (surface) immediately ahead of the car. The fog lamps may not make much difference in other countries with their good roads. But our roads have so much broken surfaces, that the fog lamps actually help.

Last edited by condor : 4th July 2017 at 00:03.
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Old 4th July 2017, 08:28   #5
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Default re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
But these fog lamps actually help here in India - they help light up the immediate front - and hence help us better see the state of road (surface) immediately ahead of the car. The fog lamps may not make much difference in other countries with their good roads. But our roads have so much broken surfaces, that the fog lamps actually help.
Absolutely, for me, foglamps help see the sides of the road much better because they focus on the lower, wider sections of the immediate roads rather than the headlamps which focus on throwing the light ahead.. both need to work in tandem in pitch dark stretches for optimal safety, afterall visibility is the purest form of safety. On roads with good street-lighting (which isn't very often in India), a regular pair of headlamps will do. I can see a great difference when the fogs kick in and I guess it isnt such a good idea to remove them for Indian situations.

In higher end cars with the projector lamps, bending lights and ARL (DRL's are daytime, lights in Mercs, Bimmers and Audi's run all the time hence this new nomenclature by me) I guess the lack of foglights are less of an issue since other vehicles can see them coming clearly and also the light throw in them is much better.. so good that I get highly irritated when a Merc comes in the opposite direction, it literally blinds the oncoming people thanks to its white light and high throw.

Why not give an option to have them fitted by factory/dealership I ask? I found them immensely useful.. once my headlamp bulb conked and I still had 3 lights up front thanks to the 2 fogs, many times I've just driven with the parking lights and fogs in peak traffic. Cool to have.

@androdev thanks, the article answers all of my doubts and it listed almost everything and more than I had thought were the reasons for such removal. However "Ms.Stockburger" is another one of those electromaniacs who have said almost everything but the "driver" is no longer necessary.. for the process of driving and those statements too, will follow soon. Things like IR cameras, motion detectors and radar cruise can be perfect as long as they function, but the minute they don't and they second they lose power or malfunction its game over for everyone.

I place on record that I want windshields, lights, steering, accelerators and everything that driving has had since inception and should continue to have for good reason. Man may make mistakes, that is why his creations of artificial intelligence, driver aids etc will fail too. Both should supplement each other when necessary.
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Old 4th July 2017, 11:04   #6
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Default re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

For me, the fog lamps assist in getting my eyes accustomed to dark/light during dusk/dawn respectively. I find that my eyes are able to see better in the dark (specially at dusk) if I have only my parking lights and fog lamps running till its close to dark and only after that I switch on the headlamps - which gives me an immediate sense of "brightness" on the road and allows me to see better and get used to night driving gradually.

Also, as one of them suggested, it throws ample light right ahead and allows me to see immediately in front of me, while the headlamps' throw seem a bit too far and scattered, even for the low beam.
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Old 4th July 2017, 12:31   #7
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Default Re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
But these fog lamps actually help here in India
+1 to that. Two more reasons that front foglamps must continue to be offered:

1. They can be a lifesaver if your headlamps conk off! On a highway trip with the Lancer, the headlamp fuse went bust. I couldn't simply wait & call for help in the middle of nowhere with my family onboard, and no village shop would have a fuse for the Lancer (especially at night). We put the foglamps on and tailed another car till the city.

2. They look great! I personally feel that front foglamps (size, shape, surround) can greatly enhance the look of the bumper overall. In fact, a bumper looks damn empty without them.

See how the Ignis' foglamps continue the car's funky theme:


Imagine how boring this front end would look without the fogs:


And some examples of designers using the fogs to enhance the overall styling:




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Old 4th July 2017, 12:49   #8
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Default Re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
This has always puzzled me and I'm not the type of person to ask a question ever, nor there has ever been a discussion on this question anywhere..

Thoughts?
Thank you for bringing this up! I share your sentiments fully and am quite dismayed by this new trend.

Currently we have 3 german cars in the house which I use the most, none of them have fog lamps. And 2 japs, both of which have fog lamps. I find myself immediately switching the fog lamps on whenever I drive my jap cars at night.
I love the look for headlamps on dim and fog lamps on and even though this is more aesthetic, I often find myself not switching on the headlamps fully until I really really need to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
+1 to that. Two more reasons that front foglamps must continue to be offered:

1. They can be a lifesaver if your headlamps conk off! On a highway trip with the Lancer, the headlamp fuse went bust. I couldn't simply wait & call for help in the middle of nowhere with my family onboard, and no village shop would have a fuse for the Lancer (especially at night). We put the foglamps on and tailed another car till the city.

2. They look great! I personally feel that front foglamps (size, shape, surround) can greatly enhance the look of the bumper overall. In fact, a bumper looks damn empty without them.
Completely agree.

I had an Opel Corsa 1.6 top of the line model when it first launched in the early 2000s. That had a separate switch for the fog lamps and I loved that! The fog lamps bring back fond memories, I hope car makers bring these back in vogue!!
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Old 4th July 2017, 13:12   #9
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Default Re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

And not to forget they have a function, which unfortunately head lamps cannot fulfill.
On a trip to the western ghats last week, there was very thick fog in the late evening and the fortuner's head lamps was just creating a white wall of light. It was in fact making matters worse.
I could drive only because of the fog lights.
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Old 4th July 2017, 16:52   #10
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Default Re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

Fog lights do help, but you very rarely experience their effectiveness. Mostly on a rainy evening when taking a U-turn in some dark isolate ally that google maps lead you to, or when there actually is a lot of mist or fog. Modern LED lighting in high end cars could perhaps mitigate the need for foglights but because their usefulness is so rarely observed, one would have to keep this in mind and do a back to back comparison to come to any conclusions on the negated necessity of fog lamps with modern led headlight clusters

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
See how the Ignis' foglamps continue the car's funky theme:

And some examples of designers using the fogs to enhance the overall styling:
How can you forget the Yeti?? I feel that was the most distinct styling element of the car and it even kind of brought foglights to the attention of the viewer in a way previously only acheived by the Renault Alpine A110.

Last edited by Rehaan : 4th July 2017 at 18:17. Reason: Downsizing image...
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Old 5th July 2017, 06:24   #11
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Default Re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

It sure feels very weird without the front fog lamps as we are so used to it. And especially the Indian mass market where it is supposedly is a 'feature' reserved for the higher variants. So, it gave more joy that utility.

For good or bad, manufacturers are going to skip them - to save cost and to get more leverage over design parameters as advancements are made with the use of LEDs and other technology (laser) in a single light cluster. The space occupied for fog lamps can be used for ventilation, breathing or even house sensors for active safety, parking and autonomous driving.

And that brings us to the other elephant in the room which gives so much character to a car design - the grille. A Tesla looks really weird for that reason. The grille is also becoming very redundant very fast with advancements in electric and hybrid power. Even most cars with an internal combustion engine needs mostly a superior air dam and not the traditional grille.

So, our generation will have to get used to all this I suppose.
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Old 5th July 2017, 09:23   #12
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Default Re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
+1 to that. Two more reasons that front foglamps must continue to be offered:
Adding on;
For cars with low stance, its actually a life saver for the under belly.
The fogs in Civic very effectively lights up the immediate front, very clearly highlighting ground irregularities.

They are super effective in lighting up the corners and very practical while getting on to side roads.

Couldn't resist posting this up, of my White Tiger

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Old 5th July 2017, 10:46   #13
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Default Re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

Speaking today as a driving-enthusiast, I feel fog lamps really help the driver to a great extent in avoiding any mishaps. As long as people drive cars, I feel fog lamps are a must IMO. For driver-less cars (looks like the future is going towards this) however, it is different.
Leaving out the functional part, Fog lamps were a major aesthetic part of a car similar to the Grilles. But now fog lamps are slowly making it's way out. With electric cars, grilles will also go out. An then the link in the post #2 of this thread speaks of even headlights becoming a history in future years.
Designers are good enough to make cars look better without fog lamps (we have enough examples). Look at Tesla3 and even without grilles(or anything similar to a grille), it looks really good. Aesthetically speaking, we don't know-Something Quirky today maybe Sexy tomorrow.

Listing down the things that may not be present in future cars:
1. Grilles -who needs them in Electric cars?
2. Fog lamps -Already on their way out
3. Headlamps -GPS navigation and vehicle to vehicle communication will render them useless may be
4. Door handles -With full key less entry who needs them?
5. ORVMs -cameras will replace them
6. Windows - Pollution and AC will make opening windows tough

Just imagine a WagonR without all these...Cars will turn into pods and we will be travelling in Boxes!
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Old 5th July 2017, 14:04   #14
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Default Re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

The fog lamps are also being used by VW cars as cornering lamps where the right side fog lamp lights up when you turn the steering to the right and same for left. This is a good feature since we need a low beam of light at the corners while taking sharp turns to see the immediate road clearly. Getting rid of fog lamps means integrating cornering lights with the headlight which might also work well but then that will offset the cost saving by eliminating fog lamps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
And not to forget they have a function, which unfortunately head lamps cannot fulfill.
On a trip to the western ghats last week, there was very thick fog in the late evening and the fortuner's head lamps was just creating a white wall of light. It was in fact making matters worse.
I could drive only because of the fog lights.
This is what I was thinking. White light does not cut well through fog. It actually gets scattered and make the visibility poor. Yellow light can cut through fog. In fact, as I remember from my childhood days, in hilly regions of Uttarakhand people used to put a yellow transparent paper on the headlights to make them more effective in fog.

With more and more cars moving to white headlight, fog lamps might actually become more important. Do the high intensity LED and Laser white lights of high-end cars do well in fog? I don't know.
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Old 5th July 2017, 16:28   #15
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Default Re: Car makers ditching the lower bumper front foglamps?

I like fog lamps and find them useful as bhpians have already mentioned earlier, they illuminate the right corner of the front side of the car which is needed as dividers in India are not marked properly.
The only problem with them is that in case the bulbs go off, changing them through DIY is not easy. For the Beat and Linea that we have in our family, the manual mentions : take the car to nearest service station to have fog lamps replaced ! (Fiat and Chevrolet and 'nearest' service station ? )
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