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Old 3rd December 2006, 12:27   #16
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Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Dear task1979,

Rightly said Physics is Physics but there is no end to understanding physics in different way........just have a look at this link about conventional thinking....

Cool Air Power | Banks Power: Cool Air Equals Power by C.J. Baker

Are you joking man to hear 0 -40 figures from me in my scooty pep?....If not then YES....I found good pick up...my main aim is to pass on any benefits by my direct experience.......unless & until poeple cant try how can they comment?......

Enjoy...
huh???
From the article you posted
Quote:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The final conclusion is that regardless of whether an engine is normally aspirated or supercharged, gas or diesel, the cooler the intake air, the better. Usually.
So... you are agreeing with me, right?
[/SIZE][/FONT]

Last edited by ported_head : 3rd December 2006 at 12:30.
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Old 3rd December 2006, 16:34   #17
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Hi tsk1979,

I think you havent read later part of article which clearly shows how hot air intake can be used effectively for engine........this article itself shows that till now what we were knowing about cold air intake is past thing....its true at the same time there is scope for hot ait to be used for engine......do read later part....

Few quotes from that part...

" he used coolant heat and exhaust waste heat to significantly warm the intake air. The purpose was to fully vaporize the fuel and to make the intake air expand in the intake system to generate positive pressure, like a supercharger"

"So just when you think you know the rules of how things work, somebody comes along and breaks the rules".

Argument is not for agreeing or disagreeing but its rather how a different & looking so absurd technique can be utilised for engine....in short what we know about any laws has so many dimensions.....

Enjoy........
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Old 3rd December 2006, 21:44   #18
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hi finetuning,i am really confused by the replies.i want to get it right.
i have a OHC and a pulsar ,passion.
so i want to try the acetone test.
so wht will be the quantity u want me to add in each of them.pls tell me.ok bye.
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Old 3rd December 2006, 23:15   #19
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Hi sankeerth,

You can start with 2.5ml per liter in your car.....there after check performance as well as FE...on next refill you can add 2 ml.....1.5 ml......or 1 ml......remember any tiny amount is needed but since combustion of different car is different you need to find correct ratio for your car for best performance as well as FE.....I m using 2.5 ml in esteem....many are using 2 ml in zen & fiesta.....same with pulsar too.....also do try 2T oil in same ratio as acetone.....mix both with small amount of petrol then add in tank.......also if you can find xylene its also very good....it gives good power response.....I m using 2.5 ml acetone+2.5 ml xylene + 2 ml 2T with very good results.....

Expect smoother running of car...expect more power response & reduction in exhaust emission...

Enjoy.......

Last edited by finetuning : 3rd December 2006 at 23:18.
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Old 3rd December 2006, 23:18   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Hi tsk1979,

I think you havent read later part of article which clearly shows how hot air intake can be used effectively for engine........this article itself shows that till now what we were knowing about cold air intake is past thing....its true at the same time there is scope for hot ait to be used for engine......do read later part....

Few quotes from that part...

" he used coolant heat and exhaust waste heat to significantly warm the intake air. The purpose was to fully vaporize the fuel and to make the intake air expand in the intake system to generate positive pressure, like a supercharger"

"So just when you think you know the rules of how things work, somebody comes along and breaks the rules".

Argument is not for agreeing or disagreeing but its rather how a different & looking so absurd technique can be utilised for engine....in short what we know about any laws has so many dimensions.....

Enjoy........
finetuning, this vaporization argument holds true for older type injectors where cold air would lead to improper fuel combustion due to not so good atomization at injector end.
Take any modern engine, with any kind of tuning, you will find that colder air will lead to better efficiency.
That is why modern cars give more FE in winters when used without AC.
This is the reason even old tech turbo diesel engines(TATA IDI) too have intercoolers fitted.
On very old engines what you say would hold true because the fuel spray is not properly atomized(vaporized) by the injectors ago. With a modern injector hot air will not give any benefit.
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Old 3rd December 2006, 23:25   #21
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Yes dear tsk1979,

I agree with you......infact I never prefer even slight sluggish pick up at any cost...beleive me.....but since I m being associated with many research forums I m finding very very novel way of improving performance as well as FE by direct experience & my only aim is to share with you people.......I will never try hot air intake even for experiment purpose as I m personally against power reduction........however I found people using this system in latest cars with increase in FE but definitely with performance reduction......also extent of performance reduction they found to be not so much high......

Enjoy......

Last edited by finetuning : 3rd December 2006 at 23:27.
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Old 4th December 2006, 12:07   #22
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I dont want to be sarcastic but I do understand your need to experiment but it does not mean that you lead others out on the same path till you have gauranteed results, and if you do then go ahead and let the world know. As I have said earlier there are a million people out there trying various combinations trying to get better milage but what most dont realise are the follows:

1) You want more milage use a lower capacity engine
2) Since you drive a carb car come down on the jet size till a good balance on power and FE are achieved
3) Power and FE need way more technological inputs than just adding a few chemicals here and there. The learn burn technology is still its nascent phase and will see some of the best benefits with the direct injection technology.
4) Back to point one if you want more milage it is a better bet to go down to a small capacity car with the best power / weight and the smallest engine possible. Heck you could get yourself a Maini Reva its not a bad ride for 2 at the cost.

Going by heresay will always cause problems on the long run and given the number of experiments you have tried how much more increase have you got on the esteem ??? about 3kmpl buy an alto and see that number jump close to 6-7 kmpl.

Note: Personally i really dont buy the logic ... when people want milage why dont they buy a milage oriented car in the first place and when people want performance they ought to buy one along those lines. When you look for a balance you will get a balance and it will keep you struggling to get more out of your car ( mileage / performance )... hence it is better to make the right choice in the first place rather than regretting later.
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Old 4th December 2006, 16:05   #23
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Dear pycho,

Noted your points.....I also know there are millions technique to improve performance as well as FE......so its my sincere effort to find those which suits my criteria.....indeed its difficult task.......

Also kindly note down that whenever any healthy discussoin is going on....there is no need to tell me everytime why & how I must do any experiments.......its out of enthusiasm I m doing at my own risk.....now we are naturally trained to look at any event at certain angle...my only aim is to highlight infinite possibilities buried under our minds...so never take this in this manner that I m pushing all......rather I m encouraging to think in different direction....you can call this parallel thinking..........it looks absurd but its not......

Getting good mileage with good torque is quite possible.......buying an alto or underjetting carb are know since so long.....nothing new......also unless you know in detail about the stuff you think are not beneficial how can you comment?.....

Fuel itself is such a great chemical..............to get best BANG out of every drop is the key to improve every running aspect of a car......why not ever you think this in right spirit?.....

I always look at every member as a seeker seeking great knowledge because I too am a knowledge seeker ...isnt this forum is for this?.......

The base of my experiment is neither FE nor Power in real sense.....its just the enthiusiasm thats driving me.....

So kindly look at this with sceintific mind...........if I m geting benefit after consistant long term use along with many others then its worth sharing.......

My every words are just for sharing & passing benefits......

Enjoy.....

Last edited by finetuning : 4th December 2006 at 16:11.
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Old 4th December 2006, 19:35   #24
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Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Also kindly note down that whenever any healthy discussoin is going on....there is no need to tell me everytime why & how I must do any experiments.......its out of enthusiasm I m doing at my own risk.....now we are naturally trained to look at any event at certain angle...my only aim is to highlight infinite possibilities buried under our minds...so never take this in this manner that I m pushing all......rather I m encouraging to think in different direction....you can call this parallel thinking..........it looks absurd but its not......
Science: To experiment is to try document and present theories/postulation, if accepted by a given number of people it is a fact. Agreed.


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Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Getting good mileage with good torque is quite possible.......buying an alto or underjetting carb are know since so long.....nothing new......also unless you know in detail about the stuff you think are not beneficial how can you comment?.....
Have been in and out with engines since I was a kid and trust me have tried way more wierd stuff in my lifetime but never did pass that on in heresay based on what I heard or what I did read online.

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Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Fuel itself is such a great chemical..............to get best BANG out of every drop is the key to improve every running aspect of a car......why not ever you think this in right spirit?.....
Chemicals are only additives used to help start a reaction quicker but what happens when the mechanicals themselves are not designed to make any better benefit from them... some enginges might respond and some might not. Hence it is not a one fits all kinda situation out here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
I always look at every member as a seeker seeking great knowledge because I too am a knowledge seeker ...isnt this forum is for this?.......

My every words are just for sharing & passing benefits......
Like I said earlier this a free world and everyone has a right to speak but if one is heard over and over again all you do is tend to ignore them. Would have respected you to understand the limitations against which you are working in the first place before you go about looking for a magic pill to solve all problems.
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Old 4th December 2006, 22:43   #25
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Dear psycho,

You rightly said we have certain limitation..........I agree with you but beleive me......before doing any sort of experiment or anything I made quite clear to my mind the base behind doing so and its only when I m convincd I applied with utmost care .......I made my mind very open to understand every new concept......there is a great difference reading online & working on them.....I never beleive to pass on anything without any experience.....

I must say that chemical aspect of fuel is so ignored...its not just to start reaction but to extract BEST BTU from every drop of fuel.....the key is to use in required amount with right understanding.......they do pass on benefits as seen by many even in this forum & worldwide.......

Now in terms of improving the efficiencies I think if we devide performance of car in different sections as I said earlier & work out correctly they bound to pass on benefits......If we improve the torque at crank end & have so much friction at tyre end then its wastage of energy.......reducing the friction in cylinder also has same effect......also by no means I m unhappy with my Queen Esteem.....there are ways to improve everything both conventionally & non conventionally........beleive me its the age of non conventional energy production ...be it wind turbine producing electricity or using solar heat........

In no way m I in search of any magical pill........rather its the combined effort deviding the performance of a car in different sections & working on each one to improve...........

I think you with your wide experience show us one very good method to improve torque with less engine heat & least emission not heard before with least expence........

Enjoy.....
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Old 5th December 2006, 14:09   #26
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According to me there are no simple methods of allowing the torque to increase it is only due to a combination of methods that helps in creasing power of an engine. The best way to explain would be the VE of the engine this can only be impacted with radical changes like the follows:

- Porting
- Valves
- Cam
- Stroke
- Increased compression leading to the need of higher octane fuels

These again need a lot more air being delivered into the engine also again leading to the need for more fuel leading to more cylinder pressures... leading to better power delivery. However there are other methods like forced induction (NOS, Supercharging, Turbo) which take the VE beyond a hundred but also reequire additional fuel delivery.

By a thumb rule higher the stroke the better the torque, typically as the fuel has more time to combust and release its energy. Hence all I can say is that none of these methods are cheap, and chemicals might increase the BTU but what is the impact to the VE?

As for your last point add a turbo of a right size to produce 3 psi with the least back pressure, you will end up with a great lean burn engine... however you still have friction then you need oils.. you will need a free flow.. a good airfilter and a intercooler if your intake temps go up... so please understand it is expensive.

And I really dont want to discuss this anymore... please.
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Old 5th December 2006, 15:19   #27
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Dear psycho,

One more point ...I think to increase torque or rotational power we need to look at basically 2 aspects of any Interal Combustion Engine.........

One is by means of which we can treat more air fuel mixture into combustion chamber by any means like as you mentioned porting...valves etc......there is no end with this method....

And the other is to get best possible energy out of the normal air fuel mixture......so increasing compression and adding any additive like acetone & 2T & xylene that increases combustion aspect fall into other category...........with this getting best out of normal air fuel ratio we dont need much input as increased combustion itself gives enough power.........

My effort is in this second aspect of improving torque hence I increased my compression to 10:1 & so on......I found this cheap as well as easy to implemet & very cost effective.....

Enjoy.....
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Old 5th December 2006, 15:24   #28
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Finetuning, you've done a lot of experimenting with different variables on your engine in a very short period of time i.e. acetone, xylene, spark plug gap, porting, grooving, LPG etc.

I believe you have not given each experiment enough time to mature. The mix and match is also making it hard to get any clarity on exactly what kind of difference each separate modification is making.

Could you please clarify?

Also, could you please run a litre test on your Esteem to get the exact FE, and do a few 0-100 and quartermile runs with a Gtech to get an accurate understanding of your car's performance?

Last edited by Boom Shiva : 5th December 2006 at 15:28.
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Old 5th December 2006, 15:35   #29
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Dear BS,

No,I have taken resonable time for each experiments...and also my regular running per month is about 1500-1800 km...so within a week I come to know about the increase in FE or so which normally takes time.....I was adding xylene since I started using acetone but I thought to share later on........and this additive stuff is like you stop adding it & car back to normal mode......but I love to add them....I havent done any porting work.....about any test...I havent done any.....I m just happy with whatever power car has with excellent FE........

Enjoy...

Last edited by finetuning : 5th December 2006 at 15:51.
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Old 5th December 2006, 16:00   #30
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Well to be honest FT, I was initially very keen and curious to hear about your results, but now there are so many experiments that I am confused.

Which is why I was hoping for some clarity and some hard numbers to back your findings.
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