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Old 5th December 2006, 16:27   #31
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@ F.T
If you want better fuel average then tune your engine with 15.0:1 or 15.5:1 A/F ratio with a tad more ignition timing, your egt will be slightly higher & you will experience slightly better torque the result will be far better than the experiments which you are doing by putting different additives, the ignition timing in degrees will vary depending upon C.R of engine and octane rating of fuel & these settings should be done only on part throttle <40%.

moreover we would like to know how much those additives cost in market which you buy every time you refill & give us breakup like
cost of fuel =
cost of additives=
KM driven=
average obtained=
Price /km =

Last edited by Ford Rocam : 5th December 2006 at 16:31.
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Old 5th December 2006, 16:36   #32
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Dear BS,

All I can say that I got good relult after grooving....my FE went to around 15....then I tried 2T stuff that too with different quantities from 1ml to 1.5 & then 2.....I also remember about boric acid part....if boric acid part is working as per theory then more I drive more efficiently car will perform with boric acid thing.....there is remarkable smoothness in drive at engine end & at wheel end that might lead to good FE numbers......but this keeps on changing......I m waiting for more confirmation in near future......

Enjoy......
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Old 5th December 2006, 16:47   #33
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Dear Ford Rocam,

I m running on dual fuel mode....so if I try more ignition timing above certain level then knocking problem is there......yes it gives good performance in LPG....infact its already advanced by 10....

Acetone & xylene are costing around Rs 50 for 500 ml & 2T is cheap....

Enjoy....
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Old 5th December 2006, 17:09   #34
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Dear Ford Rocam,

I m running on dual fuel mode....so if I try more ignition timing above certain level then knocking problem is there......yes it gives good performance in LPG....infact its already advanced by 10....

Enjoy....
So you have already advanced the ignition timing & this info you have not posted or informed on any of your earlier post, dont you think advancing the ignition timing is playing a major role in you getting more fuel f.e, I am sure you will not get same results when you set your ignition timing back to factory specs in that case those additives are not playing any significance role, you have a 10yr old carb car in which you can advance ignition by distributor but what about modern cars with distributor less ignition how will they advance their ignition timing nobody will spend 30-40k on ignition controller for advancing the spark.

Why dont you test your setup with stock ignition timing & show us actual result of those additives.with this we will come to know how much those additives are effective.
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Old 5th December 2006, 17:24   #35
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I am really confused on the boric acid part and its effect on the engine long life as heared that it can effect engine life ?

Last edited by abhibh : 5th December 2006 at 17:26.
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Old 5th December 2006, 17:25   #36
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Hi Jitu,

Very rightly pointed out.

@finetuning - Would you carry out these experiments/modifications/addittives on a new car which costs upwards of Rs6 lacs which is the mid sized category. As Ford Rocam pointed out would you be willing to bring your car to a TBHP meet where we could set your car to factory specs(ignition timing, carb afr) and then take a 1 ltr bottle test as well as timing on Gtech Pro(we will arrange for both).

If the results are indeed positive we are all here to back you and your experiments.

Viper
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Old 5th December 2006, 18:33   #37
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Originally Posted by viper View Post
As Ford Rocam pointed out would you be willing to bring your car to a TBHP meet where we could set your car to factory specs(ignition timing, carb afr) and then take a 1 ltr bottle test as well as timing on Gtech Pro(we will arrange for both).

If the results are indeed positive we are all here to back you and your experiments.

Viper
I think that's a very good suggestion Jitu/Viper. Do keep us updated on this so maybe all of us can benefit too from this ecxercise.
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Old 5th December 2006, 20:03   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
So you have already advanced the ignition timing & this info you have not posted or informed on any of your earlier post, dont you think advancing the ignition timing is playing a major role in you getting more fuel f.e, I am sure you will not get same results when you set your ignition timing back to factory specs in that case those additives are not playing any significance role, you have a 10yr old carb car in which you can advance ignition by distributor but what about modern cars with distributor less ignition how will they advance their ignition timing nobody will spend 30-40k on ignition controller for advancing the spark.

Why dont you test your setup with stock ignition timing & show us actual result of those additives.with this we will come to know how much those additives are effective.
Hi Ford Rocam,

I already mentioned in another thread about my ignition setting.......its set when I fitted LPG kit.....to get best performance as well as mileage ignition was advanced........the best result I m getting is clearly reflected in FE gain.....what more I expect?And there are many in this forum who found very good improvement in FE too with these additives in their bikes..cars...even in heavy vehicle like tata safari........

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...eem-lpg-2.html (My Experience with Iridium Plug on my esteem with LPG)

Enjoy........
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Old 5th December 2006, 20:08   #39
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that is a very good thing you pointed out jitu bhai
and btw has anybody else tried adding xylene and 2T
please do tell us your results
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Old 6th December 2006, 09:48   #40
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam
So you have already advanced the ignition timing & this info you have not posted or informed on any of your earlier post, dont you think advancing the ignition timing is playing a major role in you getting more fuel f.e, I am sure you will not get same results when you set your ignition timing back to factory specs in that case those additives are not playing any significance role, you have a 10yr old carb car in which you can advance ignition by distributor but what about modern cars with distributor less ignition how will they advance their ignition timing nobody will spend 30-40k on ignition controller for advancing the spark.

Why dont you test your setup with stock ignition timing & show us actual result of those additives.with this we will come to know how much those additives are effective.

Hi Ford Rocam,

I already mentioned in another thread about my ignition setting.......its set when I fitted LPG kit.....to get best performance as well as mileage ignition was advanced........the best result I m getting is clearly reflected in FE gain.....what more I expect?And there are many in this forum who found very good improvement in FE too with these additives in their bikes..cars...even in heavy vehicle like tata safari........
right now i am talking about your car & lets stick to it(keeping LPG aside) you have increased compression, increased ignition timing, tuned your carb, grooved your cylinder head & what not and then you put those additives & claim 17km/l , and you are going ga ga over your car saying its giving 17km/l with those additives

why dont you reply to my question which i have posted earlier i will ask again

Why dont you test your setup with stock ignition timing & show us actual result of those additives.with this we will come to know how much those additives are effective


you will still be at advantage cause i am not telling you test on other similar car similar year without any engine mods just int/ex & stock compression & stock ignition timing,no head job, add those additives & check for results. No way one will get 17km/l on a car just by adding those additives.

Last edited by Ford Rocam : 6th December 2006 at 09:52.
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Old 6th December 2006, 10:10   #41
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Yes i agree with Ford Rocam,
i have tested Acetone (different quantities as mentioned) on my 1.6 yrs Unicorn for around 3 months, some where around 1000+ kms, i did not find any improvement in FE neither it did not improve performance. So i stopped adding Acetone and i am satisfied with plane petrol..
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Old 6th December 2006, 16:27   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
right now i am talking about your car & lets stick to it(keeping LPG aside) you have increased compression, increased ignition timing, tuned your carb, grooved your cylinder head & what not and then you put those additives & claim 17km/l , and you are going ga ga over your car saying its giving 17km/l with those additives

why dont you reply to my question which i have posted earlier i will ask again

Why dont you test your setup with stock ignition timing & show us actual result of those additives.with this we will come to know how much those additives are effective


you will still be at advantage cause i am not telling you test on other similar car similar year without any engine mods just int/ex & stock compression & stock ignition timing,no head job, add those additives & check for results. No way one will get 17km/l on a car just by adding those additives.
Dear Ford Rocam,

Its your misundrstanding about my ignition timing set up....my all experiments were done with this base set up......base being only slightly increased ignition timing......that too for better running on LPG....

My recent FE gain is rather the combined effort of many thing.......I cant reduce my compression now......I cant reduce ignition timing as it clearly affects my driving with LPG......I have tested with many stock cars with stock compression & ignition timing with at least 10 to 15% FE gain with additives...........it takes at least 2 to 3 tankful to come to any conclusion & real effect of any additives....

I m not doing any experiment to show or prove anything.....

Dear....understand it takes time..money & effort of mind.....I m getting the biggest benefit & sharing......dont jump to the conclusion that FE gain is because of only additives....everything pays....like I said earlier if you do 10 good thing in a car & if they really work then their combined effect will look like unacceptable...... If I reduce my timing & do experiments then also increased compression will come into picture.....

Currently I m working on similar esteem of my friend with stock setting except K & N filter.....will let you know as & when I come to any conclusion.....There are many who arent member of this forum yet getting tremendous benefits........

Those who tried & found difference better they are beneficiary....those who didnt I dont have any comments.......take this as selfless service.....

Enjoy......
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Old 7th December 2006, 08:53   #43
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Dear Ford Rocam,

Its your misundrstanding about my ignition timing set up....my all experiments were done with this base set up......base being only slightly increased ignition timing......that too for better running on LPG....
Theres nothing to misunderstand in that for me.

Quote:
My recent FE gain is rather the combined effort of many thing.......
thats what i wanted to hear from you, only additives are not only one responsible for better f.e its combination of other things also but we need to find out how much those additives are contributing if any.

Quote:
I cant reduce my compression now......I cant reduce ignition timing as it clearly affects my driving with LPG......I have tested with many stock cars with stock compression & ignition timing with at least 10 to 15% FE gain with additives...........it takes at least 2 to 3 tankful to come to any conclusion & real effect of any additives....
No need to wait for other car if you cant reduce ignition timing then simply don't put those additives in your next refill, and refill your tank with same fuel which you have used earlier & see what fuel f.e you get without those additives, make sure you dont change any other variable like tyre pressure,passenger load or any carb settings, your setup has to be exactly same minus those additives. do atleast 3-4 refills without additives & note down the f.e you get & then compare results with f.e you got with those additives & you will get the answer.

Quote:
I m not doing any experiment to show or prove anything.....
You are doing experiment's & theres nothing wrong in that unless its not your own car & i am just trying to narrow down the results you posted i.e scientific experiment what you say

Quote:
Currently I m working on similar esteem of my friend with stock setting except K & N filter.....will let you know as & when I come to any conclusion.....
will appreciate that.

Quote:
There are many who arent member of this forum yet getting tremendous benefits........
There are many who were not benifitted either.

Quote:
Those who tried & found difference better they are beneficiary....those who didnt I dont have any comments.......
better find out reasons for not getting results rather than not commenting

Last edited by Ford Rocam : 7th December 2006 at 09:01.
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Old 7th December 2006, 17:04   #44
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[quote=Ford Rocam;334287]
Quote:

thats what i wanted to hear from you, only additives are not only one responsible for better f.e its combination of other things also but we need to find out how much those additives are contributing if any.

There are many who were not benifitted either.

better find out reasons for not getting results rather than not commenting
Oh dear....is this you want to hear from me.......if you go thorough my old post they clearly say whenever somehting good done FE increased......most significant were grooving & Ozone input.....but then also additives worked....

I have done A+B+C+D+E things & at every addition I clearly mentioned the benefits at A+B, A+B+C, A+B+C+D...... & its at this juncture I m saying my FE is this much.......this clearly shows its improving......If it had not....I could had discontinued it........

Now about many people not getting benefit......lets understand this.....acetone makes fuel thinner help it vapourise better.......unvapourised fuel dont take part in combustion......this is the main reason using this stuff.....apart from this it cleans old carbons.....but its main function is to improve combustion......

Also effect of acetone also depend on how much fuel is going unburnt....wasted....is its high then acetone effect is high...if less then it seems negligible......however every car model has different combustion charecteristic so result vary........also it depends upon fuels...its so different at different bunks....so results might vary...all we can do is try to use in different denomination...for example I tried using just 1ml then 2 ml then 2.5 ml.....with 1 ml there was not much difference in performance as well as FE....with 2ml it showed both increasing....& with 2.5ml there is reasonable increase in power & FE........same is with 2T....

This link might help understanding it better........

Acetone as a Mileage Additive

Enjoy......

Last edited by finetuning : 7th December 2006 at 17:11.
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Old 7th December 2006, 20:00   #45
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post

Oh dear....is this you want to hear from me.......if you go thorough my old post they clearly say whenever somehting good done FE increased......most significant were grooving & Ozone input.....but then also additives worked....

I have done A+B+C+D+E things & at every addition I clearly mentioned the benefits at A+B, A+B+C, A+B+C+D...... & its at this juncture I m saying my FE is this much.......this clearly shows its improving......If it had not....I could had discontinued it........

Now about many people not getting benefit......lets understand this.....acetone makes fuel thinner help it vapourise better.......unvapourised fuel dont take part in combustion......this is the main reason using this stuff.....apart from this it cleans old carbons.....but its main function is to improve combustion......
A+B+C+D+E ?????? i dont know what you are talking please talk to the point!

you are mixing & matching so many things at a time its difficult to know what modification part is resulting in better f.e weather its grooving or compression or ignition advance or your additives,many members are still confused!

I will ask you in a plain simple english
I want & other people in forum want to know how much in terms of % is the additives contributing to get better f.e i have even given you a example for that i will post again

No need to wait for other car if you cant reduce ignition timing then simply don't put those additives in your next refill, and refill your tank with same fuel which you have used earlier & see what fuel f.e you get without those additives, make sure you dont change any other variable like tyre pressure,passenger load or any carb settings, your setup has to be exactly same minus those additives. do atleast 3-4 refills without additives & note down the f.e you get & then compare results with f.e you got with those additives & you will get the answer

Once we know how much your average drops without those additives we will know its effectiveness. wether it reacts better with higher c.r & advanced timing or does not react better with lower c.r & stock ignition timing. may be you will get an answer why its not working with all engines

now please dont reply & start us explaining the theory of additives again.
We want to come to a conclusion if you cannot do that test then please dont continue this thread cause its leading nowhere!
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