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Old 1st December 2006, 20:35   #16
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there are 2 ways of improving torque


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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
If you are looking for torque, there is no replacement for displacement.
that says it all about the first way..Well Put!...plunk a larger engine into a smaller car..(eg...the most common one at that...1.3L MPFI fm maruti into the zen)....

the second is to increase both the fuel and the air that goes into your engine....that can be done through turbo charging..supercharging...cold air intakes..larger throttle bodies...high flow injectors...ecu remapping...the works.......

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Old 1st December 2006, 20:35   #17
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Quote:
If you are looking for torque, there is no replacement for displacement.
It all boils down to that, isn't it? No matter what mods you do to an engine, a bigger engine with the same mods will always produce more torque.

But i think the question here is, how do we increase peak torque without changing engine capacity?

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 1st December 2006 at 20:41.
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Old 1st December 2006, 20:56   #18
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Hi Shan2nu,

I was also looking for the answer for your question untill I came across some very good yet very unknown technique for increasing torque without changing any parameters of an engine.......its groove that makes peak torque(increases the torque magnitude in entire RPM range) in any engine.......

Groove is just like creating a very strong turbulance inside cylinder just before ignition......and after mixture ignites it creates a jet of hot streams towards the crown of piston where uniform pressure is applied in the power stroke giving more thrust to piston.......doing groove in any IC engine is like preparing Engine for the most turbulant actions......we dont have any control once the combustion starts.....its a chemical process between fuels & air with ignition......every drop of fuel particles cary so much heat energy.....if this heat energy is utilised without waste then we get good amount of power even in new car.......if fuel particles remains unburnt & carried away in exhaust stroke then its loss of heat.....loss of heat represents less thermal efficiency....if by any means we can improve this wastage then it boosts thermal efficiency giving more power....

If we look at the design aspect of cars with QUENCH PAD ( or Squish Area) .....they are created for better combustion & better engine functioning......now making a simple yet extremely effective groove on the flat surface of any engine makes a lot of difference.......this is just like preparing the lemon juice.....we add sugar & lemon & water but need to strirr it for every drop of water & lemon & sugar to get mixed well......thereafter every drop tastes so well & represent true Lemon juice..........our engines are lacking this turbulance hence there is scope of improvement.....

Enjoy.....

Last edited by finetuning : 1st December 2006 at 21:09.
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Old 1st December 2006, 21:22   #19
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Having longer runner intake manifold round type will increase low to mid end torque but not effective at higher rpm theres always a trade off unlike the new Civic which has dual stage intake manifold where at lower rpm the air flows through a longer runner & when demand for higher air increases at higher rpm a secondary link is activated & longer runner is bypassed with a short distance intake runner...
If you have adjustable cam gears you can move around the powerband where you want it to be effective.by advancing you will find more torque & power at lower rpm & by retarding its more effective at higher rpm, this is the theory but results may vary from engine to engine.
also the design of headers also play an important role in that.
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Old 1st December 2006, 21:28   #20
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With heavier flywheel we are increasing the mass(weight) hence after certain momentum it keeps rotating with increased inertia so this increases torque with is nothing but the rotational motion.......we do feel slight sluggishness at inital run up.....stock flywheel is the balance of both...not too heavy & not too light.....
The engine will have to work harder to turn the flywheel. So, i really dunno how the engine can produce more torque from this.

This is similar to fitting your car with heavy wheels or increasing the weight of the car itself. Have you driven a fully loaded car on the highway? You barely need to touch the acc when you're cruising bcos the inertia of the heavy car prevents the vehicle speed from dropping qucikly.

Yes it's hard on the engine when you need to accelerate but maintaining a constant speed bcomes easier. So, does that mean the engine is producing more torque? No, way.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 1st December 2006 at 21:42.
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Old 1st December 2006, 21:48   #21
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If we change scavanging system....intake ports....cam timings...flywheels & so on to name a few.....they operate in certain power band.....they cant work optimally on entire power band......like changing the design of headers to take care of low end torque....this design is of no use on higher end & vice versa.....every change works BEST for perticuler power zone.....but I havent came across any thing which satisfies both low as well as high end torque .....this is something like we never thought of.....

The power of Terbulant Chamber is so good & addictive......& not to forget the benefit it passes in terms of FE....very less emission....more engine life....

Personally I rate it very very high for any performance enthusiatics wanted to increase power without a bang on pocket......

Enjoy...
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Old 1st December 2006, 22:01   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
This is similar to fitting your car with heavy wheels or increasing the weight of the car itself. Have you driven a fully loaded car on the highway? You barely need to touch the acc when you're cruising bcos the inertia of the heavy car prevents the vehicle speed from dropping qucikly.

Shan2nu
Increasing the weight of car is totally different then heavy flywheel concept.........flywheel is meant to maintain the rotational power engine produces......because of close proximity with rotating engine this HEAVY LOAD maintains rotation unlike heavy weight inside a car which puts drag on engine by gravity & by scattered placement.....you are right if you say that heavy load equivalent to four people is weight of flywheel......when we press acc. in cruising condition with more load on car is different then running car with heavier flywheel.......

Torque maintained without any loss is equal to torque produced which heavy flywheel does........

Enjoy......
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Old 1st December 2006, 22:06   #23
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Quote:
The power of Terbulant Chamber is so good & addictive......& not to forget the benefit it passes in terms of FE....very less emission....more engine life....

Personally I rate it very very high for any performance enthusiatics wanted to increase power without a bang on pocket......

Enjoy...
before i comment anything on that I would like to study the concept you mentioning, can you provide me some link on that subject which you are referring to.I am wondering how come GM- Ford- Honda- Suzuki -Hyundai-Skoda & other companies did not follow that principal & wasted their lot of $$$ on R&D.
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Old 1st December 2006, 22:22   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
before i comment anything on that I would like to study the concept you mentioning, can you provide me some link on that subject which you are referring to.I am wondering how come GM- Ford- Honda- Suzuki -Hyundai-Skoda & other companies did not follow that principal & wasted their lot of $$$ on R&D.
Dear Ford Rocam,

DO read this links.....SOMENDER-SINGH.com - Home

The inventor of groove Mr Somender Singh is the lone Indian holding USA patent in individual name in automibile......

Many times a very simple yet very effective technique is not looked upon...it must be a very big story why this invention is not utilised.......but that doesnt mean it doesnt work.......do check this international forums for more input...

what do you guys think of this? :: Speed Talk - Auto Racing Forum

mpg Research :: Index

New Combustion Chamber Modification by Somender Singh - PY Online Forums

Also this link

Obsession: Mr. Singh's Search for the Holy Grail - Popular Science

Enjoy......

Last edited by finetuning : 1st December 2006 at 22:35.
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Old 1st December 2006, 22:42   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
It all boils down to that, isn't it? No matter what mods you do to an engine, a bigger engine with the same mods will always produce more torque.
Ah yes. I meant that displacement can be increased in the same engine by boring out the engine withn limits. Santro I believe went from 1.0 to 1.1 liters.
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Old 1st December 2006, 22:54   #26
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
just curious, for which vehicle?
Just wanted to know generally, but specifically for a KARIZMA.
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Old 1st December 2006, 22:56   #27
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Guys i would really appreciate it if you can explain in simpler terms
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Old 1st December 2006, 23:31   #28
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Quote:
Increasing the weight of car is totally different then heavy flywheel concept.........flywheel is meant to maintain the rotational power engine produces......because of close proximity with rotating engine this HEAVY LOAD maintains rotation unlike heavy weight inside a car which puts drag on engine by gravity & by scattered placement.....you are right if you say that heavy load equivalent to four people is weight of flywheel......when we press acc. in cruising condition with more load on car is different then running car with heavier flywheel.......

Torque maintained without any loss is equal to torque produced which heavy flywheel does........

Enjoy......
But a loaded car does the same if you look at it. You're cruising at 100kmph in 5th, you come off the acc and the car still maintains it's momentum and does not slow down as quickly as when the same car was not loaded.

By maintaining vehicle speed, it's indirectly maintaining the engine revolutions, isn't it? Same thing happens when you use heavy wheels.

But, what we're talking about here, is something else. I wanna know if using a heavy flywheel increases the max torque produced by the engine? That is the main issue here.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 1st December 2006 at 23:38.
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Old 2nd December 2006, 15:34   #29
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Quote:
wanna know if using a heavy flywheel increases the max torque produced by the engine?
It wouldn't. It would just let engine maintain the angular momentum while engine is not producing power.
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Old 2nd December 2006, 16:09   #30
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heavier Flywheel helps keep momentum of Engine RPM so that gear shift is not effected.
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