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Old 8th December 2006, 19:17   #16
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@Knight Rider: Milling is literally 'shaving' off some of the top of the cylinder head....this will increase compression ratio and is something done as a precursor to grooving, at least according to Mr. Singh. Please see Kaizer Sozay's and finetuning's posts on this same topic. (grooved esteem thread)

btw, where's this 'test' Alto that Mr. Singh's working on? Mysore??

@ Boom Shiva: The tri-phase does increase low-end torque, but it's done by increasing AFM ratio, thus decreasing mileage....at least that's what I've read and gathered from Viper, et al......plz correct me if I'm wrong....
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Old 8th December 2006, 21:58   #17
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VEzj420, Thanks man... The alto that he is doing up is in mysore, Planning to go there next weekend if it is ready......
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Old 9th December 2006, 11:57   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rider View Post
VEzj420, Thanks man... The alto that he is doing up is in mysore, Planning to go there next weekend if it is ready......
Hi sorry for my delay in replying to this tread.
I havent had the fortune of meeting MR. Singh, but dude i envy you coz you will have the privilege of visting greatness, no i aint exaggerating
. I have got my zen mpfi grooved on my own but this was with a continuos telephonic conversation & step by step instructions from the maestro himself.
Due to some time constraints i coudnt drive to mysore to get my car worked on by him. but believe me grooves are simply fantastic. my FE is now 15.5 kmph!! i used to get 12.5 earlier. the torque has shot up like crazy..

I have taken another t-bhpain called kailash also for a test drive in my car..
Unfortunately im in nagpur now so no t-bhpians here
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Old 9th December 2006, 14:29   #19
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@ Boom Shiva: The tri-phase does increase low-end torque, but it's done by increasing AFM ratio, thus decreasing mileage....at least that's what I've read and gathered from Viper, et al......plz correct me if I'm wrong....
Hi,

You understood wrong. We have over 75 Tri-Phases running all over India and almost all of them have reported a increase in performance as well as FE. There were 1 or 2 people who did have problems with the unit and had it removed. For the record the unit was OK and they were too busy to have us check or diagnoise why the unit was not working in their car when the same unit worked in other cars.

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Old 9th December 2006, 18:23   #20
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@Viper, thanks for the clarification!! This is why I invited any corrections to my comments above from you guys, since u'd be in a better position to report such things.....

@Avinash (Kaizer), how long did it take u to get your groove work done while talking to Mr. Singh?
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Old 10th December 2006, 11:41   #21
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@Viper, thanks for the clarification!! This is why I invited any corrections to my comments above from you guys, since u'd be in a better position to report such things.....

@Avinash (Kaizer), how long did it take u to get your groove work done while talking to Mr. Singh?
One day to open the head one day to shave & groove it and one day to fit it back.
didnt do a ruch job coz opeing & fitting the ehad back is crucial or else it can warp.
I got a groovy kinda love
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Old 10th December 2006, 12:23   #22
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Do you have any pics of grooved head we would love to see that, is your engine 2Valve or 4Valve/Cyl?
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Old 10th December 2006, 14:48   #23
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Dear Ford Rocam,

Even if we have quench pad or squish area of 3 cm then also making a small groove of even 1.5cm to 2cm makes difference.......

It infact work better with 4valve per cylinders as per the Inventor himself....

Understand that making the groove is the design aspect of any IC engine having at least some form of squish pad or flat surface on engine head......we have seen engine developed by most manufac. using efficient use of squish pad to get best.......but what I understood with grooves is that it yet makes them more efficient in terms of combustion... hence emission & FE.....

Dear Knight Rider,

If you are thinking of doing from the Invetor himself then what can I say?....all the best for wonderful journey to Groove.....

I has seen very good result with old Maruti 800....but that car is not here in Mumbai fo any more comments.......I have personally driven it & it beats all other 800s in terms of power...fuel eficiency...

Enjoy....

Last edited by finetuning : 10th December 2006 at 14:50.
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Old 10th December 2006, 18:52   #24
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A side question for you guys.

Do you guys replace with new head gasket and new cyl head bolts when you pull the head out and put it back. These things are kinda expensive and must be taken into account.
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Old 10th December 2006, 19:08   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaizer Sozay View Post
Hi sorry for my delay in replying to this tread.
I havent had the fortune of meeting MR. Singh, but dude i envy you coz you will have the privilege of visting greatness, no i aint exaggerating
. I have got my zen mpfi grooved on my own but this was with a continuos telephonic conversation & step by step instructions from the maestro himself.
Due to some time constraints i coudnt drive to mysore to get my car worked on by him. but believe me grooves are simply fantastic. my FE is now 15.5 kmph!! i used to get 12.5 earlier. the torque has shot up like crazy..

I have taken another t-bhpain called kailash also for a test drive in my car..
Unfortunately im in nagpur now so no t-bhpians here
Hi All,

Sorry for the delay in replying this thread. I was not keeping well last few days.

I have visited Kaizer when I was in Nagpur. And was I impressed ????

Man I was shocked to see the transformation of the zen. 15kmph in 4th gear with A/C on and not even a slighest knocking sound and to pull from the same speed all the way to 80 kmph with the a/c on was incredible. I was so impressed by the car that I am planning to work out the same on my esteem. I may be lucky enough to meet the maestro himself as I am planning to drive down to Bangalore for some work. But if I don't go to mysore, I will surely take the help of finetuning and get the car on grooves.

I want to get that done. Its crazy to watch the car in such a low speed and that too with out knocking from the engine and power all the way down will surely boost city driving condition of mumbai. I have an auto box esteem which I am planning to get work done on.

My advice GO GET IT DONE in your alto.
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Old 10th December 2006, 21:01   #26
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Do you guys replace with new head gasket and new cyl head bolts when you pull the head out and put it back. These things are kinda expensive and must be taken into account.
From what Kaizer and Mr. Singh have mentioned, it's likely the head gasket will have to be replaced, but not the bolts (kaizer, your input?).

On the 'grooved esteem' thread, one of these guys have mentioned total cost of grooving (minus porting & polishing work, I think)....which wasn't all THAT high....

of course, if you DIY and mess things up, it might be a more expensive affair!! As everyone suggests, get it done by someone who HAS done cylinder head work before.....

of course, in Knight Rider's case, the lucky dog is going to Mysore himself!! I so want to do the same thing, but alas, there's work and other commitments.....
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Old 11th December 2006, 12:05   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vezj420 View Post
From what Kaizer and Mr. Singh have mentioned, it's likely the head gasket will have to be replaced, but not the bolts (kaizer, your input?).

On the 'grooved esteem' thread, one of these guys have mentioned total cost of grooving (minus porting & polishing work, I think)....which wasn't all THAT high....

of course, if you DIY and mess things up, it might be a more expensive affair!! As everyone suggests, get it done by someone who HAS done cylinder head work before.....

of course, in Knight Rider's case, the lucky dog is going to Mysore himself!! I so want to do the same thing, but alas, there's work and other commitments.....
Guys yes you need to replace all the gaskets,
I have given a very detailed explaition of the process here including pics of the entire Process from start to finish, post no 96
For the record i even included a comparitve study of PUC certificates.
Now if there is anything else you all would like to know please dont hesitate to ask.


http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...14-5-kmpl.html (My Grooved Esteem FE is 14.5 Kmpl)
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Old 11th December 2006, 17:54   #28
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Team,

Thanks for all your inputs, I was not able to go to mysore last weekend. Well, The alto he has done-up is in bangalore now. Planning to drive it tommorrow .

All said and done, The warranty will go for a toss.. Apart from this, can someone tell me how much will it cost me to put the car back into stock condition???(Just considering something on the long run)

Again, after I do the changes, Can I still use normal fuel in the car?? Dont want to add anything like acetone or 2t oil as well...

What is the differnce between grooving an mpfi and carb engine?? Which one is likely to bring good results???

Sorry that I am asking a lot of questions
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Old 11th December 2006, 20:43   #29
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Team,

All said and done, The warranty will go for a toss.. Apart from this, can someone tell me how much will it cost me to put the car back into stock condition???(Just considering something on the long run)

Again, after I do the changes, Can I still use normal fuel in the car?? Dont want to add anything like acetone or 2t oil as well...

What is the differnce between grooving an mpfi and carb engine?? Which one is likely to bring good results???

Sorry that I am asking a lot of questions
Hi,

It is not a reversible process. You will have to buy a new cylinder head which I think will cost upwards of 20k from a authorised service centre.


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Old 11th December 2006, 21:53   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rider View Post
The alto he has done-up is in bangalore now. Planning to drive it tommorrow .
whoa! it's in Bangalore!? where?! and who can I approach for a test drive?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rider View Post
Again, after I do the changes, Can I still use normal fuel in the car?? Dont want to add anything like acetone or 2t oil as well...
Bumping up your compression ratio (from the milling) would probably require you to switch to higher octane fuel, depending on exactly how much your end CR is....I don't think using regular fuel will harm your engine, but you will definitely face less knocking by switching to higher octane.

but wait, but grooving the engine will reduce/almost eliminate all knocking anyway....now I'm confused ....is there a risk of detonation if u use regular fuel after milling & grooving? Kaizer & finetuning, your inputs please!!

See, knight, u're not the only one asking questions around here!!

btw, these guys use acetone & 2T etc for various purposes, including better vaporization and lubricating the fuel lines, respectively. u don't have to use them if u don't want.
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