Booster Brake Adjustment - Is it possible?

[gopz]

Installing a brake booster for m800, is it really useful and effective? Is it worth the upgrade? I guess it costs around 5000 but is it effective?

[arunforu1]

Originally Posted by rahul_intlad

what are these Power Brakes

Power brakes are nothing, but a common term for "power assisted brakes",
usually a booster is employed to reduce pedal effort by driver, which serves the purpose.

It is a round thing having a diaphgram inside, which work on pressure difference principle.It may be either, vaccum boosted or pressure boosted depending upon the design.

This is the story of power brakes, i guess M800 is the only car in india without a booster.

[mail4ajo]

Originally Posted by gopz

Installing a brake booster for m800, is it really useful and effective? Is it worth the upgrade? I guess it costs around 5000 but is it effective?

Its definately worth especially if you are driving on higways. But do check on the prices. Please install this in a reputed place like a authorised service center if not at the dealer. You cannot take chances on your brakes.

Originally Posted by arunforu1

This is the story of power brakes, i guess M800 is the only car in india without a booster.

Maruti has made enough and more money on this car. Hate to hear that they still dont have the Booster brakes yet.

[arunforu1]

Originally Posted by gopz

Installing a brake booster for m800, is it really useful and effective? Is it worth the upgrade? I guess it costs around 5000 but is it effective?

NO, installing only booster will not help, as brake fluid lines & components like servos are not designed for higher pressure rates exerted by the boosted system.

you have to replace complete kit including master cylinder & have to make arrangments to fit booster+master cyl. assy. in cramped hood space of M800, going to be a costly affair & doesnt makes sense.

I think using hight performance brake pads/liners makes more sense here in case of M800.

EDIT: not to mention a vaccum pump/compressor driven by engine to feed the booster diaphgram.

[Gerardfdz]

I think the funda given is not all correct!

Originally Posted by arunforu1

NO, installing only booster will not help, as brake fluid lines & components like servos are not designed for higher pressure rates exerted by the boosted system..

The same hyd lines from the present master to the individual wheels can be connected to it. As "a booster is employed to reduce pedal effort by driver, "with the help of a vaccum! And not some Pump that will increase pressure in the lines!

Originally Posted by arunforu1

you have to replace complete kit including master cylinder & have to make arrangments to fit booster+master cyl. assy. in cramped hood space of M800, going to be a costly affair & doesnt makes sense..

That is the only part that needs to be replaced !

Originally Posted by arunforu1

EDIT: not to mention a vaccum pump/compressor driven by engine to feed the booster diaphgram..

Nothing like that required! Just a hose from the Intake manifold to the booster diaphram!

PS My gypsy was modded with a booster brake -By Maruti!

[gopz]

Originally Posted by Gerardfdz

I think the funda given is not all correct!The same hyd lines from the present master to the individual wheels can be connected to it. As "a booster is employed to reduce pedal effort by driver, "with the help of a vaccum! And not some Pump that will increase pressure in the lines!


That is the only part that needs to be replaced !

Nothing like that required! Just a hose from the Intake manifold to the booster diaphram!

PS My gypsy was modded with a booster brake -By Maruti!

Thanks for all the replies guys, but Oh! I am confused now...somebody please help meee...

I will go in for it if it makes (in the least) 25% improvement in the braking efficiency,.

[arunforu1]

Originally Posted by Gerardfdz

I think the funda given is not all correct!The same hyd lines from the present master to the individual wheels can be connected to it. As "a booster is employed to reduce pedal effort by driver, "with the help of a vaccum! And not some Pump that will increase pressure in the lines!


That is the only part that needs to be replaced !

Nothing like that required! Just a hose from the Intake manifold to the booster diaphram!

PS My gypsy was modded with a booster brake -By Maruti!

Very correct the booster reduces pedal effort, but exerts much more pressure than human foot to push brake fluid in lines & hoses.So increasing pressure in lines. Under this increament in brake fluid pressure the flexible hoses near wheels may give up, Remember brakes are critical component.

I dont know about vaccum from intake manifold being sufficent to boost(i may be wrong), but have practically seen a vehicle with a separate vaccum pump to store boosting diffrential pressure in vaccum tanks.

Master cylinder & servo combo simply multiplies the foot effort by hydraulic means(simple physics). now effort augmentation is achieved using a booster, means booster is pushing same fluid from master cylinder under much more pressure(foot effort+booster effort), so pressure inside brake pipes increases & hence chance of failure of hoses which were designed to handle lesser pressure(i.e. from foot effort augmented by master+servo combo).

I am not sure about smaller vehicles, but bigger vehicles do have a dedicated vaccum pump(or compressor) to feed booster & not brake fluid directly.

i hope this clears everything, there is a reservoir to hold vaccum/pressure which supplies the vaccum or compressed air to booster when pedal is actuated by driver.

You may be correct that smaller vehicles might use intake vaccum for boosting(as i am not aware of this thing), but what mechanism is there to tackle:

1. variation in intake vaccum due to variation in enigne rpm under different driving conditions?
2. in case of engine shut off, all boosting must go at once, where as it doesnt happens, you loose boosting only after 2-3 pedal depressions ?

[Gerardfdz]

I not very technical but if my understanding is right - What you are talking applys to

""bigger vehicles do have a dedicated vaccum pump(or compressor) to feed booster & not brake fluid directly.""

like trucks tempo's etc.

I would like to quote from somewhere I read a long time ago!(May be How Stuff Works)

Generally four types of power brakes exist. These can be categorized under vacuum suspended; air suspended; hydraulic booster, and electro-hydraulic booster. The first being, the most preferred kind in power brakes.

In cars with vacuum booster type system, the brake pedal pushes the pushrod connected to the pistons within the master cylinder. Simultaneously, the pushrod opens the vacuum-control valve so that it closes the vacuum port and seals off the forward half of the booster unit. The engine vacuum line then creates a low-pressure vacuum chamber. Atmospheric pressure in the control chamber then pushes against the diaphragm. The pressure on the diaphragm forces it forward, supplying pressure on the master cylinder pistons. When the brake pedal is released, outside air supply is sealed off and vacuum valve is reopened. This restores vacuum to both sides of the diaphragm, allowing everything to return to its original position.
Unquote
To the best of my knowledge - A Maruti uses a vaccum booster type.

[greatmana2000]

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

My Alto has booster brakes. It has run 6500kms till date. After I drove about 800kms continously, I noticed that the brake pedal has more travel (play) than before. When the car was new, the play was very minimal and the brake bite was very sharp. A small feel of the brakes would stop the car.

I checked with the service center and they said that I can't adjust the brakes for the pedal play. They can only tighten the handbrake to get a better brake effect. The braking is fine, but I just love the sharp bite of the brakes. Is it possible to bring it back like new??

Since you have done around 6500 kms ,there would be a honing in of the parts .ie. Your brake pads , liners,etc will have mechanically settled in and the pedal , booster shaft will also have settled in . The brake drums and rotors will have lost their coarseness and this is actually good ,because your tires would have also worn out properly and would be hugging the road much better than when they were new . Even though you will be missing the sharpness ,your will have a much better response and feel . Greasing the handbrake actuator and a simple cleaning of the drum will help you a lot with the braking effect .

[greatmana2000]

Originally Posted by gopz

Installing a brake booster for m800, is it really useful and effective? Is it worth the upgrade? I guess it costs around 5000 but is it effective?

It should cost anywhere around 4000 rs . But , I personally feel its a waste of time and money would be better spent on better wheels or tyres .

"Adding a booster does not help braking ,it just lowers the energy required to pump the master cylinder . "

FInally ,you need to have the engine switched on when you have a brake booster ,otherwise the brakes would not work ,but , with a manual brake , even if the engine is switched off the brakes would still work.

[greatmana2000]

Originally Posted by harsh87

get brake bleeding done or get the hi performance steel braided brake hoses
these things surely work they wont allow any loss of pressure through the steel lines to the caliper

A word of caution here. Steel braided hoses which I have seen in the market are not really of good quality and the inner rubber will get punctured under high pressure . So please use the genuine brake hoses.

[1100D]

Have you checked Fluid Level variations lately. Are you sure there isn't any minute leak in the lines.

Get Bleeding done and then drive around for a few days and check if the condition returns. The Lack of bite can be due to a lower pressure int he lines.

However it can also be brake fade.

[Zappo]

You can try the following IMO
* Check if the pressure is being lost due to some leakage in the master cylinder.
* The brake oil may have trapped air bubbles. Try bleeding the oil and then fill in afresh.
* Check the pads for having gone smooth. Make them coarse. The grip will increase.