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Old 23rd June 2008, 16:57   #46
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Here you go
Boric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't really advocate boric acid either in fuel or in engine oil/Gear oil.
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Old 23rd June 2008, 23:26   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
We are talking about Boric Acid, The article is so clearly talking about BORON.
I've read about BORON and its useage in automotive industry in so many countries. But Boric Acid......?

FT what is the chemical combination of Boric Acid and BORON, if you dont know, pls let me know, i'll post it.

Guys these two are entirely different compounds.
If you know and wish to share more about BORON and its lubricating properties then post it for me.

Boric acid contains BORON and it is most commonly available compound.

I think the word BORIC ACID is not seen by you in most of your readings..

Following links for your reference...do read it carefully.

Nano-boric acid makes motor oil more slippery

Here is the list of patents using BORIC ACID as a lubricant.

Method to improve lubricity of low ... - Google Patents

tsk,

If you and members had gone through wikipedia then show me one thing that is beneficial for using it as a lubricant leaving aside all other properties.

Understand that all this comes from very well known scientific laboratory and from a person having 20 years of experience just finding out the lubricious properties of boric acid.

It simply doesnt matter if the above research is not accepted by many but claiming it to be NON SCIENTIFIC is simply utter ignorance.Do we really read carefully everything??

Well,nano sized particles makes it very attractive but normal sized do pass on benefits to considerable scale.
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Old 24th June 2008, 08:24   #48
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finetuning, I am not questioning lubricating properties of Boron.
I am not agreeing on 2 points
1. I do not think engine oil reaches temperatures of 300 degrees and sufficiently high pressures that boric acid is broken down and converted into boric oxide in the absence of H2O
2. I feel that having acidic material in engine oil/gear oil will speed up corrosion of rubber seals(over a period of 40-50K kms).
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Old 24th June 2008, 09:25   #49
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I really wonder if something safe enough for use as an eye-bath would cause damage to rubber O rings/seals. The concentrations are very low.

I'd be more wary of some of the additives in the oils. And of course heat is the major enemy for most seals being used in automotive applications.
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Old 24th June 2008, 14:44   #50
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tsk,

Few more points for discussion about BA..

Have we understood how BA is useful for lubrication purpose when added into engine oil?

Its the PHYSICAL PROPERTY of Boric Acid that is useful for lubrication & not the CHEMICAL PROPERTY.So as far as BA in engine oil or in other application is concerned we must explore that aspect.Also there should not be confusion between BORON and BORIC ACID each time.Indeed BA contains boron and its the property of Boric Acid that is useful for lubrication which contains Boron.The word BORON is used to denote number of boron products which were & will be used in many many applications.Hence as far as science is concerned they use word boron & boron related product.Boric Acid is one such wonderful product available freely having unique lubricating property which is rather the latest INVENTION.

Read Crystaline structure in Boric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Boric Acid has unique structure in powder form called Crystaline Structure where B(OH)3 has layers of closely bonded molecules(Boron bonds with Oxygen & Hydrogen) that arrange themselves just like a deck of cards.All layers has very weak bonding force called van der wall forces and these layers are staked one upon another.They are very resistant to perpendiculer pressure making THESE layers extremely hard like a diamond.

BUT,when pressure parallel to the surface on which these layers are formed(Engine Cylinder wall & Piston Movement) is applied then because of very weak intra layer bonding force they simply slide over each other making friction very very less.So we get a hard layer over metal surface which is very resistant to pressure but very weak along direction of movements of sliding metal surface.

Its again just like a deck of cards where each card represent each layer.When we press this layers perpendiculerly they togather represent so much resistant but when we press them along the surface of cards they easily move upon each other.


Its this behaviour thats responsible for 70 to 80% friction reduction resulting in tremendous benefits to moving parts & in our case engines.

Also dont get confused by word BORIC ACID...the ACID part is very very mild and infact its an inert compound compared to other additive packages.Its inert to any acidic formation inside combustion chamber making it long lasting apart from pressure & temp. resistant.

Also moist air is there always in varied proportion that makes it possible to produce Boric oxide even in miniscule amount thats why this process takes time of 2000 Km or more for full benefit.

Infact engine oil & its by product itself are more damaging to even metal parts.Forget rubber parts and seals.Acidic by product of additive package of an ideal engine oil literally eats metal surfaces making micro asperities which again contribute to friction.This metal eating process can not be easily stopped as for that we need to remove elements like sulpher and others which basically imparts lubricity to oil.

So normal engine oil continued using all those harmful elements till the finding of this wonderful bio friendly product.Its really a dream lubricant for any Environmentalist and Economist.

Last edited by finetuning : 24th June 2008 at 15:02. Reason: spell check
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Old 24th June 2008, 21:27   #51
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Only if you had added... How would you know without experimenting..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
For example,. after 1 lakh kms, today my indica's clutch was opened. The rubber seals etc., which are exposed only to gear oil were partially corroded.

Now if I had added some Boric acid or something to the gear oil, I don't know what it would have done.
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Old 17th December 2009, 05:32   #52
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Is there any further update on this?? Has anybody else tried it?? What is the result??

I want to try it on my 8 years old bike. Can somebody advice where I can find good quality Boric Acid. Also what is acetone and where is it availble and for how much??
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Old 16th July 2013, 20:16   #53
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Default Re: My Experience Of Adding Boric Acid In Petrol

Finetuning, are you there? I've been following this thread for about a year now and have tried it in my 8 year old HONDA UNICORN and 6 year old MITSUBISHI CEDIA. Infact I'm about to do it today in another 14 year old Maruti 800. I should appreciate you for 2 things here.
One is, your persistence in gathering the knowledge, running through various sources and patent links and applying the same in your vehicles knowing fully well the risks involved. The other one is how you are able to, in an unprovoked fashion, give suitable answers to people who negate or rubbish your claims.
Now, my UNICORN showed not much results as the engine was breathing its last again and I was trying to give the Boric Acid treatment just before selling it off. It was a gamble on my CEDIA and it worked well. It was smoother even with the old oil which was due for change in the next 1000 kms. I had run on Boric acid for around 750kms which included two fast highway runs. Mileage was better from 12KMPL earlier to just above 13KMPL. Man, I should tell you that it was one of the biggest risks I had taken, but your neatly described experiments and links made me go a little further to the extent of testing it on a performance car like CEDIA which runs on family mode.
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