Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th February 2007, 23:08   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
Rahulk76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: PNQ
Posts: 1,133
Thanked: 204 Times
Default

Raj
Coming back to the AirFilter Stuff... I remember you telling that at TVS -Lucas center, it was suggested that over the RPM of 2000, engine wasnt getting as much air as it should, therefore the reason of black unburnt smoke.
Eg. On Standing, rev the engine to over 2K RPM and see the service indicator RED band coming down, which indicates that engine is getting choked and not getting enough air as it should.

Have you by any chance checked this on Safari 2007 Model?
Rahulk76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2007, 12:08   #17
BHPian
 
rajismine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 515
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

ZERO. All under warranty. They dare not charge for it till the car is under warranty.

Go and directly meet the head of service centre and tell/ show him the smoke.

Would be good if you can take a print of this whole thread and show him. He would be convinced I am sure and would help you.

Regards
rajismine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2007, 12:14   #18
BHPian
 
rajismine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 515
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Yes. Over 2000 rpm you will see red band coming down

I did not check this factor in 2007 Safari as the main issue was smoking and it was not smoking AT ALL...
rajismine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2007, 13:46   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
Rahulk76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: PNQ
Posts: 1,133
Thanked: 204 Times
Default

Allright the time has come to uncover the culprit

& the culprit is the new lumax airfilter paper element....(in my case) it is not passing the required air as much as required by the engine when over 1800+ RPM. I consulted with the workshop and they have confirmed that this might be really the case and will take it up with Tata and Lumax.

It seems that its not letting pass the air when required and as a result the engine is running with more fuel and less air

Workshop has called in my Dicor to replace the airfilter free of cost..and its my guess that things will drastically improve after that

More to come...

Last edited by Rahulk76 : 18th February 2007 at 13:47.
Rahulk76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2007, 15:49   #20
BHPian
 
rajismine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 515
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

But have these guys upgraded the air filter again recently

Asking this as if it was the issue, then why dont the new safari's smoke.

I dont think they changed the air filter very recently so i doubt if it is the actual culprit...
rajismine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2007, 17:08   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
Rahulk76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: PNQ
Posts: 1,133
Thanked: 204 Times
Default

hmm... too true.. i havent seen the new safari but will have a look when i get a chance... i dont have a damn clue on this....

Steer..any comments
Rahulk76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th February 2007, 21:42   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
Rahulk76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: PNQ
Posts: 1,133
Thanked: 204 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajismine View Post
Yes. Over 2000 rpm you will see red band coming down

I did not check this factor in 2007 Safari as the main issue was smoking and it was not smoking AT ALL...
By any chance do these 2K7 models have air mass flow meter also ....
Rahulk76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2007, 10:54   #23
BHPian
 
rajismine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 515
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

what is a Air Mass Flow Meter. If you can guide me, I will chk it out with my dealer right away....
rajismine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2007, 16:02   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
Rahulk76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: PNQ
Posts: 1,133
Thanked: 204 Times
Default

i guess u need to check the 2007 dicor and the engine specs along with the sensors they might have added in the same,

MAF sensor sees the density of the air coming in and passes the signal to ecu to caliberate the exact amount of fuel to be sent into the ignition chamber.

i believe that thats what they have done in 2007 dicor as per the workshop
Rahulk76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2007, 10:42   #25
BHPian
 
rajismine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 515
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Hey,

can you tell me where is this MAF sensor placed? I think we do have this sensor....just need to confirm.
rajismine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2007, 17:47   #26
BHPian
 
rajismine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 515
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Guys,

just came back from TATA Service centre after an EXTREMELY DETAILED checkup and discussion.

First the Outcome: NO SMOKE AT ALL

What was done:

DISCUSSIONS:
1.) My car has a MAF sensor. In fact all Safari DICORs have MAF sensor. Its bosch make in all versions.
2.) There were three versions of ECU for Safari: B01, C01(Intermediate) and D01. B01 had smoke issue but was environment friendly. I have D01 which is the latest but the line between Conformance and Non Conformance to pollution standars is very thin in D01.
3.) I have Progressive EGR valve however 2007 safari is coming with only On/Off EGR. This has been done to reduce costs as the latter is cheaper. There is one problem with progressive though that there are more chances of a failure than On/Off.

CHECKUP:
1.) Sedimenter checked: status OK
2.) Intercooler checked: Status OK
3.) Airfilter checked: took out one from Feb 2007 safari and installed in my car. immediately the smoke reduced
4.) All valves, FPI, EGR, Filters checked with software both in car standing and running condition.
5.) ECU calibration checked

OUTCOME: As i said, the 2007 safari filter i guess clicked and there is no smoke now.
rajismine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2007, 02:21   #27
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: bangalore
Posts: 227
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajismine View Post
3.) I have Progressive EGR valve however 2007 safari is coming with only On/Off EGR. This has been done to reduce costs as the latter is cheaper. There is one problem with progressive though that there are more chances of a failure than On/Off.
Kind attention:Steeroid sir!

Last edited by Desert fox : 23rd February 2007 at 02:22.
Desert fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2007, 11:11   #28
BHPian
 
rajismine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 515
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Hey Desert Fox. This is what I was told by Lucas TVS guys who represnt Delphi.

Please let me know if you guys feel it is not correct. I was told that a progressive EGR has more chances of failure as even small carbon particles may screw it up which does not happen in On/Off.

On/Off is also cheaper and might also reduce gurantee replacement costs for TATAs as it does not malfunction.

However according to the guy, if the car is maintained well, progressive EGR would prove to be much much better than on/off as it takes into consideration the driving style....
rajismine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2007, 14:59   #29
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: bangalore
Posts: 227
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajismine View Post
Hey Desert Fox. This is what I was told by Lucas TVS guys who represnt Delphi.

Please let me know if you guys feel it is not correct. I was told that a progressive EGR has more chances of failure as even small carbon particles may screw it up which does not happen in On/Off.

On/Off is also cheaper and might also reduce gurantee replacement costs for TATAs as it does not malfunction.

However according to the guy, if the car is maintained well, progressive EGR would prove to be much much better than on/off as it takes into consideration the driving style....
No my friend,you are absolutely right.refer steeroids post on page one where he says i said i think it is crap!

What the dealer has said is partly true and it will not malfunction.

Iam sorry,you have taken so much trouble and fished out information which is not usually accesible to industry outsiders for the benefit of People like us,i should have been a little more responsible than just to shoot of a post,which is a referral point towards a conversation between me and Steeroid-My humble apologies Raj.
Desert fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2007, 16:01   #30
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: TN/AP/KA
Posts: 181
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

I haven't checked in great detail. My January 07 DiCOR doesn't smoke under gentle acceleration but does smoke under heavy acceleration. This is not noticeable in the daytime but is visible in the right ORVM at night in the light of headlamps from behind.
dicorex4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maruti Swift ZXI Old version or Swift VXI New Version? kirantp Hatchbacks 16 31st December 2011 07:30
Air filter and Air intake sunilvarma Technical Stuff 10 4th November 2010 10:58
Tata Safari Dicor LX 4 X 2 or Safari Dicor EX 4 x 2 Digitalmafia SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 55 1st June 2009 17:31
Safari 3.0 dicor or 2.2 VTT dicor ? tabrez02 SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 49 30th December 2008 12:56
Best air filter or cold air intake for Skoda RS Kartik9500 Modifications & Accessories 9 7th February 2008 03:43


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:29.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks