Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th February 2007, 13:19   #1
BHPian
 
pawan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: auckland, new zealand
Posts: 867
Thanked: 2 Times
Default electric turbochager

i have been reading in various forums about this.then i had this idea.
we all know the problem of a turbo is the lag.the best way to prevent lag is the vw twin charging and porsche's variable vaine tech is quite the best.since a turbo runs on exaust till there is enough exaust to power the turbine can the turbine be run on electricity not to full boost but a bit so that the turbine can start at earlier rpm hence increasing the boost earlier.also a new battery can be put to avoid load on the car battery.
kindly give your ideas about this.
pawan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 14:11   #2
Team-BHP Support
 
moralfibre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MH-12
Posts: 6,625
Thanked: 6,149 Times
Default

I have heard of something called as an Electric Supercharger. Search on google and there is some info on how it works. It gives about 1 - 1.7 PSI boost. I am not sure though.
moralfibre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 14:19   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Useless.

You cannot create energy. A regular turbo runs off exhaust gas energy, that would otherwise be wasted. To run one electrically would mean creating more electrical energy than normal, which would result in a net loss of power.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 14:30   #4
BHPian
 
pawan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: auckland, new zealand
Posts: 867
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

no what i meant is to start the turbo exhaust gases would be used would require lot of pressure to move it (higer rpm) but what if the starting movement of the blades are electrically started means the turbo would activate faster hence giving boost at slightly lower rpm's.and at higer rpm's it would run on exaust gases.

Last edited by pawan : 12th February 2007 at 14:32.
pawan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 14:51   #5
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chennai
Posts: 399
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

This is already thought off - search for E-boosting in this wikipedia article:

Turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The drawback is it requires a higher-voltage battery to drive it; 12V doesnt cut it.
ballkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 15:33   #6
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 313
Thanked: 250 Times
Default

There is a small correction. The turbo does not start spinning only in the boost range. The moment you start the engine, the turbo starts spinning. It is only that after certain rpm it gives a boost significant enough to increase power.

Hence, you do not need an electic motor to get a turbo spinning.Moreover, the complications involving new electricals, battery, cooling systems is just too complicated and not worth it. It's better to go in for a VGT turbo.

I do not know the reason but my Accent CRDI does not have any significant turbo lag. It takes off from 1500 rpm onwards albeit with some vibration. I guess it's got to do with more torque due to a 3 cylinder configuration. The same is not true with a swift DDIS which feels pretty dead till about 2200 rpm
badri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 15:44   #7
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 275
Thanked: 63 Times
Default

Also, think of the other side. You are crawling in traffic with revs at 1200/1300 and the turbo kicks in. You would have to keep slamming the brakes. I wonder if this is why most turbos for normal use cars kick in at 1900/2000 rpm.
Bomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 18:59   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
aseem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,737
Thanked: 416 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by badri View Post
Hence, you do not need an electic motor to get a turbo spinning.Moreover, the complications involving new electricals, battery, cooling systems is just too complicated and not worth it. It's better to go in for a VGT turbo.
Precisely for discouraging reasons like this the DIY attitude never developed in India. People are not mechanically oriented, new ideas are discouraged, people are too scared to experiment.... No wonder we are still not fully industrialized
aseem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 20:44   #9
IMP
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pune
Posts: 117
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Turbo fans rotate at from around 80,000 to 300,000 rpm in some cases, to have a motor capable of such speeds is difficult, and the current draw will be major.

I have one more idea though, which is similar to Nitrous Injection. To have a high pressure air tank, with a air compressor running off the engine. Once sufficient pressure is built up in the tank, one allows this high pressure air into the intake manifold of the car, eventually inside the cylinder . This pressure would provide significant boost in power, though for a couple of seconds only (10-15 secs), similar to Nitrous Injection, but you need not pay a hefty price for the nitrous refill. Just use the car normally until the air pressure builds up again and you're back in action.

Has anybody given it a thought? its technically possible isn't it? The compressor will sap power though.

But like Viper has said correctly, you can't create energy, but wont it be great if you could use more power when you want it, and then when you are just cruising around you could engage the compressor to build the pressure back up, ready for the next boost?
IMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 21:37   #10
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 409
Thanked: 109 Times
Default

Some thoughts on turbo..

1. All vehicles needs to over come the Air drag, depending of their shape.

2. If one can come out with a shape like conical ( or similar shape, which matches with car shape), which tunnels the air from front and narrows down to the intake through air filter, that can be significantly at higher pressure/velocity.

Any thoughts and any experience from any one?

regards,
-manju
manjubp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 21:54   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 313
Thanked: 250 Times
Default

Hi,

I intended not to discourage anyone. It's just that I have two turbocharged vehicles and done so much research on turbochargers and I have given my opinion.

A turbocharger is a finely balanced equipment and fitting of additional motors etc would also involve additional wiring,plumbing,balancing the whole system etc. A small change in balance in turbocharger can create lot of vibration and destroy it.

I have worked 7 years in mechanical and aerospace industries and firmly beleive that any mechanical innovation must be backed by strong mechanical logic and one must never ignore basics in quest of innovation.
badri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 22:30   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chennai
Posts: 399
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Precisely for discouraging reasons like this the DIY attitude never developed in India. People are not mechanically oriented, new ideas are discouraged, people are too scared to experiment.... No wonder we are still not fully industrialized
Please; it's not a new idea, and has obvious drawbacks - pointing that out isnt discouragement; its just good valuable advice. I welcome the poster's attempts to prove me wrong though.
ballkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 23:16   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Aseem, please realise the topic in question is not fastening paper clips. Contributions are appreciated if you have some clue about it.

If you are such a DIY freak, why drive a Swift? There are plans everywhere for 10k INR home-made Caterhams. How come you don't have one of those?
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2007, 14:00   #14
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Epinal,France
Posts: 83
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Lets also not forget the buzzword for today's industry. 'Sustainable technology'. I know how turbocharging is progressing today as a technology, thanks wholly to the fact that i'm working with the world's best. But each new technology that is concieved, also has to be feasible in terms of cost.

An example of this is the use of VGTs in petrol cars. The first such application is not the 997 turbo from Porsche. Way back in 1989, 500 Shelby CSX-VNTs were made, using a VNT-25 from Garrett (Now Honeywell Turbo). And after that, the next application debuted in 2006.

So, the concept is'nt new, its just that today Porsche believes that it can market this technology, retaining their price competiveness in the same category, something that Shelby could'nt do in '89



porsche_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2007, 15:08   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,042
Thanked: 95 Times
Default

Please work out the energy requirements for an electric turbo to generate at least 2 PSI of boost and then calculate the load on the battery, you will then realise that this will not work.
Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
An 8 wheel electric car that puts Enzo to shame. v12 The International Automotive Scene 13 8th February 2010 22:35
Reva Electric Car is the highest selling electric car in the world navdeep The Indian Car Scene 29 23rd June 2007 20:21
new electric sports car devarshi84 The International Automotive Scene 1 5th October 2005 00:25
electric turbo... spdemon Modifications & Accessories 4 23rd August 2005 10:12
Eliica : 400 kph from pure electric car harryraj The International Automotive Scene 1 2nd February 2005 20:32


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:43.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks