Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th March 2007, 15:26   #1
BHPian
 
gbpscars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 402
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Will this cause battery drain?

I have a 100/90W headlamp with proper wiring and relay setup for my OHC. I'm now working on fitting a xenon-HID lamp on projector housing for the fog lamps.

I would like to wire the HID ballast for the fog lamp in such a way it has a seperate accessory switch and is not triggered with the city lights or low/high beams.

In this case, could someone good in car electricals let me know if the car's battery face a heavy drain on full usage scenarios like
- I use high beam and the fogs (100W+35W)
- I use the pass-beam (flashing) (100W+90W+35W)
- I start the HID fog lamp while using the 100W high beam (startup voltage demand of HID is very high - upto 23 KVs, for less than a second)
,... as I will have to take the direct battery mains positive to power the HID too, same as the headlamps.

What precautions should I use to protect against drain / any electrical issues expected?

I will surely be using proper projector housing with low level cut-offs for the fog lamps. No glares.

Last edited by Rehaan : 14th March 2007 at 05:27.
gbpscars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2007, 16:49   #2
BHPian
 
gbpscars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 402
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

hi all,

no one to answer this question for me please?

did i ask something so mundane!!!!

if not the electrically literate, atleast those who have a similar setup or a heavier setup, please let me know what you have fit in as accessory lamps /equipment on a plain OEM specification battery, so i can be convinced and go on with my setup.

thanks in advance.
gbpscars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2007, 17:04   #3
BHPian
 
EVO6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pune
Posts: 488
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbpscars View Post
hi all,

no one to answer this question for me please?

did i ask something so mundane!!!!

if not the electrically literate, atleast those who have a similar setup or a heavier setup, please let me know what you have fit in as accessory lamps /equipment on a plain OEM specification battery, so i can be convinced and go on with my setup.

thanks in advance.
Dont think it will cause any harm to the battery because of this.. Since people use high consumption audio systems with the standard battery.. But going in for a little higher capacity battery will definitely help..
Cheerss
EVO6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2007, 17:12   #4
Team-BHP Support
 
Rtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 5,769
Thanked: 212 Times
Default

If your battery is in good shape, and your alternator working fine, the setup you've mentioned above should not be a problem at all. HID's actually use less power than regular halogen bulbs, so it really shouldn't create any problems.

In essence, when you turn on your HID's, you would be using 100W high beams and about 35W for the HID's. Which is the same as running your high beams along with your fog lights.
Rtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2007, 17:52   #5
BHPian
 
gbpscars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 402
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
In essence, when you turn on your HID's, you would be using 100W high beams and about 35W for the HID's. Which is the same as running your high beams along with your fog lights.
This is quite convincing.
Thanks Rtech.


Thanks to you too EVO6.
gbpscars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2007, 21:09   #6
BHPian
 
quicksilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 455
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbpscars View Post
I start the HID fog lamp while using the 100W high beam (startup voltage demand of HID is very high - upto 23 KVs, for less than a second)
,... as I will have to take the direct battery mains positive to power the HID too, same as the headlamps.
Should be no issue with the startup voltage demand pal... thats what the ballast is for.
quicksilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2007, 21:24   #7
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 144
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Don't worry pal. It won't have any effect on the battery. But, make sure that the wiring is perfect. BTW, the car A/C consumes a lot more power than any pair of bulb. It should be close to 1500 W, give or take a few hundred. The alternator is more than capable of handling the load of your bulbs.

But, if you have a habit of keeping them ON for a long time, after engine shut-down, you'll need to be careful now.
amu1983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2007, 12:01   #8
BHPian
 
ajitkommini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 483
Thanked: 109 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amu1983 View Post
... the car A/C consumes a lot more power than any pair of bulb. It should be close to 1500 W, give or take a few hundred. ...
Wow 1500W?? Are you talking about the blower only? The compressor is a mechanical component driven by a belt from the crankshaft pulley right? Are you including this mechanical power as well?
ajitkommini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2007, 12:25   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 454 Times
Default

as long as there is a cut out - regulator wired in between the headlamp and the battery..no sudden loads will effect your electrical system..but make sure your engine is running while using the headlamps / AC combination..
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th March 2007, 15:50   #10
BHPian
 
gbpscars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 402
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

thanks headers

meanwhile, i found more satisfactory answers on current consumed during startup of HID. at hidplanet.com's university section. some of you might find this information handy. in all i can rule out battery drain for sure, but found some interesting points about HID startup current usage.

The lines below are as replied to a thread in hidplanet.com

Im not sure about start-up, but the brand of ballast has nothing to do with the amp draw. All 35w ballasts will draw the same amps. For example if you had 14.5 volts (I think batteries are closer to 15v then 12v) then a 35w ballast draws 2.1 amps.

any 35 watt ballast is going to pull up to 20 amps during first few seconds of ignition and drop from there down to 2-5 depending on ballast brand and Gen......

Sorry dude your wrong, all ballasts do not have the same efficiency. some are as bad as 78% efficient, some as good as 90%. That is 40 watts to feed the most efficient ones and 45 watts to feed the least efficient ones. At 14.5 VDC when alternator is running, that is from 2.8 amps to 3.1 amps at steady state.

And yeah not all ballasts are the same.. some draw under 10 amps at startup and others like the hella gen3 can pull well over 15 amps.. after 10-20 seconds it usually goes down to 2 or 3 amps though.. your phillips ballasts are made by Hella so for the pair, you will need at least 30amps available protected by the 30amp fuse minimum.


and,... there was another reply from a probably hi-tech instrumentation specialist, who measured the spike on a nanosecond trace interval on his probe. this sounds scary, but no worries, this may at the most only cause a very slow fuse burnout.



If you measure with a FET probe there is a 200 mS transient of 80 amps on a Hella Gen 3. If you search around here for some of my posts I have written about this ad nauseum when peeps were wondering why their fuses kept blowing. After that inital transiet there is a period of about 8 amps for a few seconds, then it couples to a ground state where it lives on 3 amps give or take.


Not taking this too far,... we can assume a spike strong enough to be felt at 20 amps at startup and a constant usage amperes of 2-3. I hope this helps.
gbpscars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2007, 05:42   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
mithun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cochin
Posts: 1,950
Thanked: 49 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amu1983
BTW, the car A/C consumes a lot more power than any pair of bulb. It should be close to 1500 W, give or take a few hundred.
What is the exact electricity consumption of the AC Blower ?

Is it really 1500W as mentioned in this thread ?
mithun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2007, 09:58   #12
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,505
Thanked: 3,882 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mithun View Post
What is the exact electricity consumption of the AC Blower ?

Is it really 1500W as mentioned in this thread ?
Yes 1500W would be in the ball park. The consumption is mostly from teh AC Compressor not the blwer. The blower is a just a fan and would consume about 50-100W maybe less.

1500W at 12V is 125 Amps at 13.8V (where my car usually measures) is about 108A.

Last edited by navin : 17th March 2007 at 09:59.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2007, 18:02   #13
BHPian
 
ajitkommini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 483
Thanked: 109 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
1500W at 12V is 125 Amps at 13.8V (where my car usually measures) is about 108A.
Does your car have an electrically powered compressor though?
ajitkommini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2010, 09:29   #14
BHPian
 
kri$hna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bhagyanagarabad
Posts: 230
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Can overcharging a battery cause a Ful Drain out ??

I am facing a typical drain out issue in my baleno. If I keep the car idle (ignition off & locked) for about 3 days, it doesnt crank up the 4th day. Only thing working while the car is locked is the central locking system (earlier nippon OEM & now Crosslink Wheels). When it dies off, the voltage in the battery typically hovers around 4 -4.5v, which is feel is very low and cannot be caused by a defective battery !

I bought an Exide ATB maintenance free battery in dec 2008 & the battery was replaced twice due to full drain out. I dont think battery is a culprit here, because i feel the alternator is overcharging or there might be any other fault with wiring (Gask Kit or Audio unit (HU & Amp) ). Yesterday, when the battery died again, I just got a spare battery and checked the terminal voltage @battery while engine running (without AC/Headlight), it is standing around 14.35v and while i accelerate, the voltage goes up till 14.6v, which i feel is due to a faulty alternator relay or something which is causing this over charge.

But can this overcharge be the reason why battery dies off in just a few days? I am yet to figure out the root cause, but need to rule out any alternator defects, before i get the wiring checked. Also suggest me a professional electrician in bangalore who can check this wiring & alternator issues in a Baleno.
I appreciate any help guys
kri$hna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2010, 15:47   #15
Senior - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punya Nagari
Posts: 1,894
Thanked: 1,137 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kri$hna View Post
** BUMP **
can anyone provide some insight plzz
14.6v is a bit high. Normal charging voltage is 13.8 to 14.4v. Higher voltages cause the electrolyte to evaporate and higher still will cause the +ve plates to buckle/deform. If high voltages persist over a period of time battery damaged is assured.

You need to want to get the regulator/rectifier plus the battery checked. Also check the car circuits for any parasitic drain when the ignition is off.
R2D2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Key remote fob - Battery drain raveesh_k Technical Stuff 15 3rd August 2015 10:41
Battery Drain Issue with Toyota Etios: Boot Light Stays On mroptimist Technical Stuff 13 23rd September 2013 22:05
Does leaving phone charger plugged into 12V socket overnight drain battery? androdev Technical Stuff 27 18th December 2012 22:04
can a loose wire drain the battery? raj_5004 Technical Stuff 13 8th January 2009 09:12


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:07.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks