Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th April 2007, 23:32   #61
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik View Post
Hey Mclaren, is anyone doing this in India?
Yes psycho's doing it himself here .. His esteem was last revving upto 8000 with the TC .. Bought a cam that works from 3000-8000 rpm's for my car along with valve springs .. Unfortunately the cam didnt work .. Also his earlier esteem a 8V carbed was revving upto 13,000 .. Its hard to believe but a lot of members here have been a witness to it .. Though this has nothing to do with an ECU its hard to fathom that suzi's can actually revv that high ..

The only constraint to revv the engines that high would be to get the fuelling right at high rpms without leaning out and better valve springs & prevent valve float .. Basically its just removing the limiter .. However doing the same on E-III ECU's seems a little complicated compared to the older ones .. Once we tried it on my zen and the limiter started hitting at 20 , 40 , 60 , 80 ..

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 4th April 2007 at 23:35.
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2007, 23:58   #62
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

As karthik has pointed it out , it may not be called flashing a ECU .. But psycho does know a way to take off the revv limiter completely or move it by 500 rpm on stock engines ..
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:01   #63
BHPian
 
rdkarthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 206
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Yes psycho's doing it himself here .. His esteem was last revving upto 8000 with the TC .. Bought a cam that works from 3000-8000 rpm's for my car along with valve springs .. Unfortunately the cam didnt work .. Also his earlier esteem a 8V carbed was revving upto 13,000 .. Its hard to believe but a lot of members here have been a witness to it .. Though this has nothing to do with an ECU its hard to fathom that suzi's can actually revv that high ..

The only constraint to revv the engines that high would be to get the fuelling right at high rpms without leaning out and better valve springs & prevent valve float .. Basically its just removing the limiter .. However doing the same on E-III ECU's seems a little complicated compared to the older ones .. Once we tried it on my zen and the limiter started hitting at 20 , 40 , 60 , 80 ..
Well, flashing is generally modifying data/values on ECU. I am sure nobody at the tuner level here has access to flash maruti E2 & 3 ECUs.
rdkarthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:03   #64
BHPian
 
rdkarthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 206
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
As karthik has pointed it out , it may not be called flashing a ECU .. But psycho does know a way to take off the revv limiter completely or move it by 500 rpm on stock engines ..
Not possible to take off limiter. You can only trick and push it somewhere else.
rdkarthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:11   #65
BHPian
 
Ford Rocam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai-India
Posts: 880
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
The only constraint to revv the engines that high would be to get the fuelling right at high rpms without leaning out and better valve springs & prevent valve float .. Basically its just removing the limiter .. However doing the same on E-III ECU's seems a little complicated compared to the older ones .. Once we tried it on my zen and the limiter started hitting at 20 , 40 , 60 , 80 ..
You need good amount of airflow (CFM) from your cylinder head too to accomplish this, also the engine geometry plays a vital role in power delivery in higher rpm especially the Rod/Stroke ratio any engine with higher Rod/Stroke ratio can help carry your torque to redline otherwise its just making noise.
Ford Rocam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:18   #66
Senior - BHPian
 
The Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,116
Thanked: 58 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik View Post
Not possible to take off limiter. You can only trick and push it somewhere else.
May be Psycho tricks and moves the revv limitter to 10,000 rpms, its as good as not having a revv limitter at all as the car cannot revv that high, right?
The Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:25   #67
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik View Post
Not possible to take off limiter. You can only trick and push it somewhere else.
I know its been done .. Maybe as ritesh puts it the revv limiter might be pused to limits where an engine may not reach .. Now that psycho is out of country karthik it would be really helpful if you could tell us how to fool an ECU ?? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of such a mod ??
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:27   #68
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
especially the Rod/Stroke ratio any engine with higher Rod/Stroke ratio can help carry your torque to redline otherwise its just making noise.
What is a rod/stroke ratio?
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:27   #69
BHPian
 
Ford Rocam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai-India
Posts: 880
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
are we going to be turboing it etc .. or 1st stick to NA, then go for Turbo, then ITB..
becoz then we may have to consider the "peak and hold" type of injectors otherwise we can stick to stock saturated type injectors for our needs, we may have to alter our wiring as u cant simply drop in peak type in place of saturated type..
after we have got a big pump, injectors etc then if reqd the rail upgrade comes in..
Type of injectors have no relation with NA or turbo application. Specially On Hondas i am using satured injectors for Na & Boost, Peak&hold injectors dont respond fast enough.
Ford Rocam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:31   #70
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
What is a rod/stroke ratio?
I guess its the ratio of the rod length to that of the stroke ..
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:37   #71
BHPian
 
chetanhanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 886
Thanked: 42 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
Type of injectors have no relation with NA or turbo application. Specially On Hondas i am using satured injectors for Na & Boost, Peak&hold injectors dont respond fast enough.
if u are not staying with NA engine
going crazy extreme with cams,turbos ,ITB's and NOS you cannot use saturated type they have a max capacity they can supply fuel upto..
tuboing it to extreme will need more fuel and bigger injectors and then the "peak and hold" come into the picture...if we want to go all out crazy

so definately type of injectors have a relation with NA or turbo application.. if this is the context u were referrng to ..
chetanhanda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:38   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
The Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,116
Thanked: 58 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I guess its the ratio of the rod length to that of the stroke ..
Its Bore x Stroke in other terms may be...rod x stroke isnt correct coz both are same!

V1p3r: You came sooner than my edit time...

Last edited by The Wolf : 5th April 2007 at 00:51.
The Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:40   #73
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I guess its the ratio of the rod length to that of the stroke ..
Thanks, I wanted to know how that helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Its Bore x Stroke in other terms...
No it can't be. I don't see any mention of the bore here. Stroke is a function of the length of the connecting rod and the height of the piston.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:42   #74
BHPian
 
rdkarthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 206
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I know its been done .. Maybe as ritesh puts it the revv limiter might be pused to limits where an engine may not reach .. Now that psycho is out of country karthik it would be really helpful if you could tell us how to fool an ECU ?? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of such a mod ??
Overclocking...In simple words, microcontroller on ECU gets time base from what is called a oscillator, which runs at a fixed frequency. Replacing this with a higher frequency oscillator fools the ECU into seeing lower revs.

for ex. time for 180 deg of crack revolutions @6000RPM takes 5msec. An overclocked ECU will read more than 5 msec ( depending on amount of overclock), say 5.2 msec, which means it "sees" 5769RPM.

Advantages-
1) More revs


Disadvantages-
1) Not optimal . Actual values from ECU are meant for some other RPM site
2) Not the way to make more power
3) May cause problems with OBD communications ( not sure on maruti ECUs) and chip reliablity. Unlikely if mildly overclocked though.
4) May need higher flow injectors / fpr to overcome prob (1)
rdkarthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2007, 00:48   #75
Senior - BHPian
 
The Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,116
Thanked: 58 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik View Post
Overclocking...In simple words, microcontroller on ECU gets time base from what is called a oscillator, which runs at a fixed frequency. Replacing this with a higher frequency oscillator fools the ECU into seeing lower revs.

for ex. time for 180 deg of crack revolutions @6000RPM takes 5msec. An overclocked ECU will read more than 5 msec ( depending on amount of overclock), say 5.2 msec, which means it "sees" 5769RPM.

Advantages-
1) More revs


Disadvantages-
1) Not optimal . Actual values from ECU are meant for some other RPM site
2) Not the way to make more power
3) May cause problems with OBD communications ( not sure on maruti ECUs) and chip reliablity. Unlikely if mildly overclocked though.
4) May need higher flow injectors / fpr to overcome prob (1)
Karthik, I remember you telling me that it just takes 7 bucks to fool the ecu into revving more... Is this the same thing we are discussing right now??
The Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BS-VI norms might require all 2-wheelers to get fuel-injection hangover Motorbikes 10 5th August 2017 17:44
Would a 700 cc fuel-injected Royal Enfield sell in India? ArizonaJim Motorbikes 23 27th July 2013 07:31
Fuel injected Bikes from Hero Honda mail4ajo Motorbikes 12 28th May 2009 18:56
Tbhp Bangalore Drive on 29th July 2006. - The buildup mclaren1885 The Team-BHP Meet Section 199 29th July 2006 10:05


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:50.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks