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Old 8th April 2007, 03:03   #61
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Originally Posted by Ford Rocam View Post
Cannot say it can vary from engine to engine it wont be that high with a rich mixture but temp will be high with a leaner mixture the best way is to hook up EGT gauge & check for temperature readings.
True, it's confusing man for me. It seems the combustion temperatures are high at lean AFR, peak combustion temperature is maximum at stoichiometric and then drop down at rich AFR. This it seems is because at lean AFRs there is a slow burn, which allows the heat to soak into the cylinder components. But at stoichiometric it burns really fast, so though PCT is max, combustion temperatures are lower than lean AFRs.

One thing though, at lean mixture, there is excess of air so doesn't that provide a cooling effect more or does the excess fuel at rich AFR provide higher cooling effect because it has higher specific heat capacity?

But the EGT at lean AFR is low, but increases with rich AFR, right?

Coming back to IAT signals. IAT signals to the ECM as an output voltage, so only thing to change that signal would require a resistance, in parallel, I think.

These Throttle Body Spacers definitely seem scammy to me. Firstly they claim to increase intake velocity, which without change in cross-sectional area, I don't know how they plan to achieve. They also claim to increase swirl and atomisation. How? Unless the car has a TBI setup, it won't increase atomisation of fuel, right?. Swirl at TB won't be effective unless mixed with fuel, that happens further down the intake runners, right? So all it does is add some length to the setup, which is beneficial how? Please correct me where I'm wrong.

Last edited by ported_head : 8th April 2007 at 03:10.
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Old 8th April 2007, 08:40   #62
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Originally Posted by rdkarthik View Post
All i am contradicting is claims of 15% to 20% in torque and pick up... You say you have never read autocar and placed an ad, who do you think is responsible to supply them with that information for that article? Who do you think should be responsible for things concerning your product? Is'nt it weird you want to wash your hands off as "you have'nt read it"??

Btw these are the figures your Indian interest claims by word of mouth as well....
Dude,

Im sure you know how magazines and newspapers work in India. They had obtained certain details from me and edited the same as per their convenience. No magazine prints the entire info or tech sheet.

If I were making false commitments my product would not sell. There are plenty of satisfied customers for the products and I have never forced anyone to buy them.

@ Ported - This thread is for clarifying whether xyz product delivers the promised gains or not and I think the Tri-Phase has enough satisfied customers on record to substantiate the same. The technical info provided on both my and Next Level's website is more than enough knowledge required to be provided to a customer. Any more data is not for public knowledge and definitely not for post on a forum.

If your intenetion is to genuinely know what it does you know my contact details.

@McLaren- You are free to buy the product, have it opened and confirm your doubts. There are a million ways to acheive the same results. It takes a lot of time and money to establish a product and get it branded. Who would buy a home made remedy for say even Rs50/- even if it did the same thing. There is a reason why people buy a branded product irrespective of the product whether it be gadgets, phones, shoes, or clothes.

Viper

PS - Mods I had refrained on commenting to this post so far as I did not want to start personal wars and I am not or never represented myself as a technically qualified person.

Last edited by Rehaan : 8th April 2007 at 14:11. Reason: Post edited so you can get your say, but keeping it non-confrontational as all the replies have been deleted.
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Old 8th April 2007, 10:29   #63
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instead trying to fight & prove each other let us all try to make this thread informative as to which mods give what in practical situation. I am sure people like viper can help this happen.
lets start with the basics- why & how Can performance be increased.
let me try to put in what I have learnt till now
1. select a car which can actually be modified if you have the time & money to do it. e.g a lancer or a ohc, even a baleno. first & most noticeable gain will be by changing its engine to the larger capacity one as per manufacture.
2. always stick to safety rules & take adequate measures so that you don't put yourself or people on road at risk, since they don't know what's in your car.
3. second is selecting car which is under tuned to suit normal indian driving conditions. so when you are going to retune to its optimum performance be sure you take care of it. good fuel,air and roads.
3. take advise from experts on what suits the particular car. do not force a tall boy design to run quarter miles.
4.various mods have to work in co-ordination to give proper results. plan and improve step by step.
I will request all our gurus to help in identifying what's correct & how to be done.
ice section of teambhp has very good stuff.
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Old 8th April 2007, 12:31   #64
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NOTE FROM SUPPORT TEAM -

18 Posts have been deleted, to help keep the thread focused, concise and on track.

This is an open forum and people are allowed to express their views, as long as it is not slander. Only the posts from where the thread turned into an arguement have been deleted.

There shall be no more mention of the Tri-phase (directly or indirectly) in this thread, as we feel enough contrasting views have been expressed for the readers/customers to make up their own minds, and this arguement could go on forever with no additional value to the discussion.


Lets get back to the discussion, do note that comments / posts not abiding by these rules will be deleted.


Thank you,
TBHP SUPPORT TEAM.

Last edited by Rehaan : 8th April 2007 at 13:33.
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Old 9th April 2007, 03:30   #65
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Originally Posted by ported_head View Post

One thing though, at lean mixture, there is excess of air so doesn't that provide a cooling effect more or does the excess fuel at rich AFR provide higher cooling effect because it has higher specific heat capacity?

But the EGT at lean AFR is low, but increases with rich AFR, right?
No. That's exactly why you don't see any reputable piggybacks offering huge fuel economy gains. There is a huge market out there that would gladly cut their horsepower in half to save 50% in fuel economy by radically leaning out their a/f mix. Leaning out the a/f ration too much causes massive damage to your motor because of the superheated exhaust.

Lean mixes cause extremely hot exhaust; excess air becomes superheated, burns valves and damages or engine components. Superheated air has no cooling effect, quite the opposite actually. Think of it this way...if you just had a regular fire/flame...what happens when you add more oxygen? BANG! and a much hotter BANG, for that matter.
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Old 9th April 2007, 05:42   #66
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8] TB spacers

this is an interesting one ..
if u are going to optimize the air/fuel charge then you should be passing fuel also thru this Throttlebody , but its only air in the TB of our normal MPFI engines..

The actual use/benefit of this spacer is in TB injected or carb engines where the air and fuel mixture is (a)given more time to mix by the extended length of the spacer before it reaches the cylinders (b) mixed/atomised even better before reaching the cylinders due to the swirling effect of the air due to the helical pattern of the TB spacer on the inside surface...
now considering (a) and (b) ..do our MPFI sytems need this kind of setup ?

Considering (a)
these are meant for carb or throttle body injcetion type of fuel supply systems where the air and fuel is mixed and better the mix in the TB the better he combustion.. BUT in our regular systems the fuel is added after the TB ie in the intake runner to each cylinder. There is one injector per runner supplying fuel spray to the cylinders.
so whats the point of this extra swirling of air in the intake plenum ? is going to help us. ?it doesnt mix a thing except maybe the vapor coming through the PCV..

Considering (b)
In our case due to the design of the intake i.e. Single TB connected to intake plenum feeding 1 runner for each cylinder
this TB is of no use becoz whatever the "claimed increase" of intake air velocity and swirling action does not reach the cylinder as it is already split up at the intake runners

throttle body spacers do work. but only if your car is carb'd or has throttle body injection, dont know if they would actually provide some noticeable gain in BHP on the dyno , not considering the "butt dyno feel" ..
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Old 9th April 2007, 06:01   #67
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
You've missed headers. I've seen them give upto 12 bhp on 1.6 litre engines.
On indian stock engines ?
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Old 9th April 2007, 06:13   #68
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the best way to bust myths is to use a dyno. we see people pouring lakhs into a single car, yet we dont see a single accessible dyno anywhere in the country, even though it costs less money than a new C-class. where you walk in and get the car tuned. maybe its the cost equation.
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Old 9th April 2007, 08:52   #69
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Ananth , no tuner in his right senses will get a dyno in India .. Then 90% of his customers will be dissatisfied for not meeting the HP claims our tuners give .. This will not change and they will make sure no one else gets one too ..
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Old 9th April 2007, 09:14   #70
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thats a sad situation, mclaren.

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This will not change and they will make sure no one else gets one too ..
we'll see about that. honest.
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Old 9th April 2007, 11:10   #71
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we'll see about that. honest.
If this comes through you will be the most respected man in my books .. So is the dyno coming to bangalore ?? And any idea by when ??
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Old 9th April 2007, 15:14   #72
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Mcl, please do not start with the chit chat in this thread.
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Old 9th April 2007, 23:51   #73
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Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
Coming back to IAT signals. IAT signals to the ECM as an output voltage, so only thing to change that signal would require a resistance, in parallel, I think.
It would need a resistor in series.
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Old 10th April 2007, 00:06   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik View Post
It would need a resistor in series.
Does the output voltage of the IAT sensor rise as temperature goes up?
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Old 10th April 2007, 00:48   #75
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This is an AIRAID PowerAid throttle body spacer and assembly for a Ford truck. The grooves in the throttle body supposedly create more turbulent air reaching the intake runners aiding better atomization of fuel resulting is marginally better torque...

I tried a custom made 1/2 inch throttle body spacer on my OHC vtec and saw no performance gains at all. I ran the car with it for some time coz I had plonked it but got rid of it a lil later...

There are whole lot of claims over this product world wide but the only place where it has showed some noticeable gains that I have read is in those all american trucks/jeeps with HEMI's. Claims quote that there is a lil more usable torque generated in the mid range... hehe wonder why they need any more torque, its a HEMI Goddamn it!!! Americans...phew!!!

Last edited by The Wolf : 10th April 2007 at 00:49.
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