Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th April 2007, 20:22   #91
BHPian
 
rdkarthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 206
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigy View Post
what are all of you trying to do with changing resistance of sensors? when the air temperature is high it is the sensor responsibility to inform the ECU and it adjust the fuel accordingly.
so if you force ECU to think the engine is being fed cold air, are you expecting increase in power. Tecnically it is not possible. only when the correct input data is given the ECU, it can produces power as per throttle position.
if you need more power increase mass air flow( turbo), try for colder air (CAI) intake and fuel , allow faster exhaust exit within the power band possible from engine. rest all theory is pure ****.
there is one basic rule for everything, energy can neither be created nor destroyed. so there has to be more input for more output...... how much you can drag this is based on limits of the engine physical size and related things.
Dear gigy, there is more to ECUs and tuning. All you mentioned about FFE,FI and CAI are valid. So are the laws of physics ..

ECUs from the factory are mapped keeping in mind the average driver. Its a compromise between economy and performance. There is always leverage to extract the remaining bit from it. A colder IAT will make the ECU richer on fuel and add more advance for ignition. This will increase engine power.


This "compromise" with stock ECUs is exactly why aftermarkrt flashing/piggybacks/standalones help extract more power than stock.

Its different with a programmable ECU. When a system like this is installed and tuned/mapped for the best performance, trying to fool it into seeing a lower temperature will makes things worse. It will end up running richer and with more ignition advance than what is best.

Last edited by rdkarthik : 10th April 2007 at 20:25.
rdkarthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2007, 20:35   #92
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
Stage 2) Full exhaust system from cylinder head flange onwards (not just freeflowing muffler) along with rejetting/remapping/piggyback
I don't think you need to remap for an exhaust system.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2007, 20:41   #93
Senior - BHPian
 
ananthkamath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,194
Thanked: 46 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I don't think you need to remap for an exhaust system.
why not? i believe many aftermarket exhaust manufacturers recommend a remap?
ananthkamath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2007, 20:43   #94
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Well, AFAIK, most exhausts are bolt-on replacements.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2007, 22:16   #95
BHPian
 
rdkarthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 206
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
I don't think you need to remap for an exhaust system.
For the best performance, a remap is necessary. Engine characteristics change with changes to intake and/or exhaust dimensions.
rdkarthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 04:45   #96
Senior - BHPian
 
gigy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1,321
Thanked: 41 Times
Default

the compromise of manufacture in india make to maximize fuel economy is what we can remap for best performance. if an after market product helps in achieving its good, but many of the ecu can be remapped directly for performance. ecu can be changed.
other things where manufacture cuts cost is wheels & tyres. structural systems like stabilizer bars, strut braces, abs & traction control because average indians don't need this. they are reluctant to even wear seat belts & helmets. improving handling & safety also helps in pushing car to its full potential.
gigy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 10:52   #97
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 20
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Guys just curious...how popular are engine swaps in India? I've gotten several PMs regarding Indian market cars being grossly underpowered. What are some of you guys putting down stock and on what cars? I have some specs, provided by Viper and from our tech dept...but i'm just curious.

There is a saying that the V8 muscle car guys have in the states..."there is no replacement for displacement" - which, the import tuners say, forced induction is that answer. And to some degree, they are correct, but even forced induction has limits and dimishing effectiveness at high boost levels.

So I guess what i'm saying is...if some of you are dealing with 75 whp or less, and say less than 1.5L of displacement, and you are going to spend $1500 USD on mods anyway, have you ever considered an engine swap? There are a ton of H & B Series Honda motors floating around the USA, not to mention Nissan SR and VQs. Not too many vvti Toyota motors available for swaps yet, but i'm sure they are coming (and the 7a and 5s Fe's aren't anything to get excited about IMO). Just a thought. Comments welcome.
nextlevel350z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 11:26   #98
Senior - BHPian
 
ported_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 2,391
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nextlevel350z View Post

So I guess what i'm saying is...if some of you are dealing with 75 whp or less, and say less than 1.5L of displacement, and you are going to spend $1500 USD on mods anyway, have you ever considered an engine swap? There are a ton of H & B Series Honda motors floating around the USA, not to mention Nissan SR and VQs. Not too many vvti Toyota motors available for swaps yet, but i'm sure they are coming (and the 7a and 5s Fe's aren't anything to get excited about IMO). Just a thought. Comments welcome.
I suggest you make a trip to India, you will be surprised at what we have here. I also suggest a thorough read around the forum. We might get inadequately powered stock cars, but aftermarket talent is pretty much on par with the rest of the world. Though we do lack a dyno.

I'm sure you already have details for all the Indian cars' stock specifications, since the Tri-Phase works on them all.
ported_head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 18:08   #99
Senior - BHPian
 
ananthkamath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,194
Thanked: 46 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
but aftermarket talent is pretty much on par with the rest of the world.

We may have the talent and we may have the ingenuity, but then we lack equipment like you said and therefore cannot be on par with the rest of the world when it comes to achieving quarter mile times and lap times.
ananthkamath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 18:18   #100
BHPian
 
Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Madras - India
Posts: 641
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
We may have the talent and we may have the ingenuity, but then we lack equipment like you said and therefore cannot be on par with the rest of the world when it comes to achieving quarter mile times and lap times.
Patience my friend. All in good time.
Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 19:06   #101
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Hot swaps are D15 and B16 mills into Honda Citys, which come with 106 hp. Twin-cam Suzuki Swift GTi swaps into Suzuki Zen/Alto bodies, and even Honda mills into Suzuki bodies. The Lancers have various Mivec options, and some Evo powertrains too. And then there's always turbocharging.

You must remember though, this is all illegal here.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 21:01   #102
BHPian
 
Kaizer Sozay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 333
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
why not? i believe many aftermarket exhaust manufacturers recommend a remap?
Pls elaborate on the remap part
Kaizer Sozay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 21:11   #103
Senior - BHPian
 
abhibh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Back in the HOOD near you!
Posts: 2,767
Thanked: 33 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
HTwin-cam Suzuki Swift GTi swaps into Suzuki Zen/Alto bodies, and even Honda mills into Suzuki bodies.
Please shed more light on this.
abhibh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 21:22   #104
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 20
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
I suggest you make a trip to India, you will be surprised at what we have here. I also suggest a thorough read around the forum. We might get inadequately powered stock cars, but aftermarket talent is pretty much on par with the rest of the world. Though we do lack a dyno.

I'm sure you already have details for all the Indian cars' stock specifications, since the Tri-Phase works on them all.
Ok, I really don't need the sarcasm, or your attitude. I don't attempt to portray myself as an expert tuner, I am not. I know what I need to know, about various aspects; my knowledge is not specialized. And I am trying to grasp concepts from your region, and help as I can along the way.

I don't know where you get your attitude problem from, but someone that thinks excess air in a lean a/f mix has some sort of "cooling effect" has no grounds to criticize my automotive knowledge.

Also, no disrespect intended...but saying that your aftermarket talent is "on par" with the rest of world, without a dyno, is a ridiculous statement. You can't tune didly squat without a dyno.

I appreciate the rest of the helpful comments regarding my post. Ported-head, i'm not interested in getting in an ego contest with you, apparently you have enough for the both of us.
nextlevel350z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2007, 21:32   #105
BHPian
 
pawan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: auckland, new zealand
Posts: 867
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik View Post
For the best performance, a remap is necessary. Engine characteristics change with changes to intake and/or exhaust dimensions.
but on the indian cars can the stock ecu be remapped.
pawan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Cayenne" we "XC-eed" in our "Endeavour" to "Safari"? Taking powerful metal off-road SS-Traveller 4x4 Excursions 55 10th November 2016 22:56
Dude wheres your car? The "invisible" car from Merc vinod332002 The International Automotive Scene 13 6th July 2012 17:18
Rtech dude......correct if i'm wrong. Shan2nu Shifting gears 16 20th May 2004 17:26


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:00.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks