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Old 11th April 2007, 21:38   #106
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Originally Posted by pawan View Post
but on the indian cars can the stock ecu be remapped.
Yes, of course they can, if you have the technology.
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Old 11th April 2007, 21:52   #107
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Ok, I really don't need the sarcasm, or your attitude. I don't attempt to portray myself as an expert tuner, I am not. I know what I need to know, about various aspects; my knowledge is not specialized. And I am trying to grasp concepts from your region, and help as I can along the way.

I don't know where you get your attitude problem from, but someone that thinks excess air in a lean a/f mix has some sort of "cooling effect" has no grounds to criticize my automotive knowledge.

Also, no disrespect intended...but saying that your aftermarket talent is "on par" with the rest of world, without a dyno, is a ridiculous statement. You can't tune didly squat without a dyno.

I appreciate the rest of the helpful comments regarding my post. Ported-head, i'm not interested in getting in an ego contest with you, apparently you have enough for the both of us.
Ok BOSS, I really suggest you get some excess air so that it cools you off. Read what I have written. When you are done looking at it without being influenced by what has preceeded in the thread, then maybe you will see what I am trying to say.

I am trying to learn along the way, I'm still studying so I'm going to ask as many dumb questions as I have to, to understand what I need to. If you are so dumbfounded by my inane queries, I suggest you Google a little, because there are contradicting theories everywhere on the internet. There is a "Lean of Peak" and a "Rich of Peak" theory floating around on the internet too, which is why I am confused.

Since I can last remember, I haven't had an argument with you on the thread yet. I was having a discussion with somebody else on the thread, who is kind enough to answer my "dumb" queries, unlike you, who has due to festivities avoided my genuine question thrice. Maybe this is your ultimate weapon in a bid to keep people from ever questioning your "automotive knowledge."

As far as aftermarket talent goes, I am pretty satisfied with what I have seen, considering how recent the scene here is. You asked whether we have considered a swap, to which I asked you to search around the forum since you'd be pleasantly surprised, as we have D15B Vtec, Suzuki 1300 Twin Cam, B-series and MIVEC swaps floating around.

I am also surprised that you think I have an attitude problem, since we have never really interacted before on the forum. If you have any more to comment on my attitude problem or my little automotive knowledge, take it to the PMs.
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Old 11th April 2007, 22:20   #108
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Ok guys chill out now. The thread is about "Dude I Bolted 25 BHP" and not "Dude I Bolted 25 PUNCHES"...

Well now that you are cooled off, please look at my query below and also please enlighten can ECU of cars like WagonR, Alto, OLD ZEN, SNATRO be remaped here in India ?
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Old 11th April 2007, 22:29   #109
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Ok BOSS, I really suggest you get some excess air so that it cools you off. Read what I have written. When you are done looking at it without being influenced by what has preceeded in the thread, then maybe you will see what I am trying to say.

I am trying to learn along the way, I'm still studying so I'm going to ask as many dumb questions as I have to, to understand what I need to. If you are so dumbfounded by my inane queries, I suggest you Google a little, because there are contradicting theories everywhere on the internet. There is a "Lean of Peak" and a "Rich of Peak" theory floating around on the internet too, which is why I am confused.

Since I can last remember, I haven't had an argument with you on the thread yet. I was having a discussion with somebody else on the thread, who is kind enough to answer my "dumb" queries, unlike you, who has due to festivities avoided my genuine question thrice. Maybe this is your ultimate weapon in a bid to keep people from ever questioning your "automotive knowledge."

As far as aftermarket talent goes, I am pretty satisfied with what I have seen, considering how recent the scene here is. You asked whether we have considered a swap, to which I asked you to search around the forum since you'd be pleasantly surprised, as we have D15B Vtec, Suzuki 1300 Twin Cam, B-series and MIVEC swaps floating around.

I am also surprised that you think I have an attitude problem, since we have never really interacted before on the forum. If you have any more to comment on my attitude problem or my little automotive knowledge, take it to the PMs.
I'm not taking anything to PMs, I have no desire to argue with anyone. Just seems like you have it out for me for some reason. So if you don't, and I misinterpreted, I apologize.

As far as the lean cooling effect, if you only choose to believe one thing I say, believe that. Too lean is going to cause damage, and I would urge all BHPians to avoid it - i'm just trying to prevent someone from doing harm to their vehicle.

As far as learning...that's a good thing.
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Old 11th April 2007, 22:49   #110
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I'm not taking anything to PMs, I have no desire to argue with anyone. Just seems like you have it out for me for some reason. So if you don't, and I misinterpreted, I apologize.
I do not have anything out for you and I wonder why you would think so. Nothing offensive have I said in this thread, nor have we ever interacted on the forum before.

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Originally Posted by nextlevel350z View Post
As far as the lean cooling effect, if you only choose to believe one thing I say, believe that. Too lean is going to cause damage, and I would urge all BHPians to avoid it - i'm just trying to prevent someone from doing harm to their vehicle.
No man, I know extremely lean AFRs destroy engines. What I was wondering is, rich AFRs have a cooling effect due to excess fuel present. So why not air then, at lean AFRs, which is in excess. Air does have a specific heat capacity. The "lean of peak" and the "rich of peak" theories are wrt to EGTs, and I would have tried to explain them but I am not too clear with them myself.
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Old 11th April 2007, 23:13   #111
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Well now that you are cooled off, please look at my query below and also please enlighten can ECU of cars like WagonR, Alto, OLD ZEN, SNATRO be remaped here in India ?
No. Not at the tuner level.
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Old 12th April 2007, 00:12   #112
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Next level, welcome aboard dude. I know tuning is close to impossible without a dyno, but beleive me sir, we have done and can do it again and again. I will not go into too many detials. All I can say is that it's been done and results are there to prove it. You will laugh your guts off if I told you how, maybe we can share details via PM.

Since you are in the states, I would request you to try and do some research for us if you don't mind. For eg. second hand dynos - i.e. availability cost etc. Would appreciate your help.

Last edited by Sideways : 12th April 2007 at 00:18.
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Old 12th April 2007, 00:19   #113
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Originally Posted by abhibh View Post
Please shed more light on this.
What's to shed light on? People are putting twin-cam GTi engines into a Zen. 100 bhp off the shelf. With mods, over 140. D15B Vtec engines, if they're Indian, 106 bhp, or if they're Thai/JDM, 134 bhp. Then you can turbo any of these to over 200 bhp minimum. Stripped Zen is under 650 kgs, so you are looking at a PW ratio of 300 bhp/tonne. As much as an Evo or WRX.

Then of course there's the B series swap into an OHC. Primary proponent of this revolution is Mr Jitendra Suri, and I have NO idea how much power he is aiming for. One thing for sure, you'll all be when it comes out.
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Old 12th April 2007, 00:26   #114
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Next level, welcome aboard dude. I know tuning is close to impossible without a dyno, but beleive me sir, we have done and can do it again and again. I will not go into too many detials. All I can say is that it's been done and results are there to prove it. You will laugh your guts off if I told you how, maybe we can share details via PM.

Since you are in the states, I would request you to try and do some research for us if you don't mind. For eg. second hand dynos - i.e. availability cost etc. Would appreciate your help.
Thanks man! PMs away if you wanna share. I'd be happy to do some research for anyone on the board that is interested in a dyno, or anything else from the states that you guys have trouble getting...Just an FYI though, we aren't a retailer, so I won't have direct access to any prices, etc. The best I can do is locate and put you in touch with the people that have what you need.
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Old 12th April 2007, 02:30   #115
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Guys just curious...how popular are engine swaps in India?
Nextlevel - a little late in the day but anyhow, welcome aboard

This may be OT but I want to add some "non-tuner" perspective to your queries and the discussion in general, perhaps that would give you (and others esp. Viper, Nitroxx, Psycho, Rocam, Arush et. al.) some more insight.

I believe that Engine Swaps are not popular in India.

Yes, being a member of T-bhp I am lucky to be aware of the few people who do engine swaps and the extent to which it has been successful but, and this is a big but - is this the definition of popular?

The day a auto-enthusiast decides to go in for a Engine Swap and he has easy access to the tuners who do the job, plenty of references to verify the tuners credibility along with assured reliability of the job being performed - not to mention demonstrated results - that is the day I would consider it to be popular in India.

I may be sounding cynical, but please stop kidding college kids that their free-flow exhaust K&N intake equipped Lancer is now doing 125 bhp !! - the poor guys lose to stock OHC's and feel bad

Today, if I want to get an engine swap done on my OHC in Delhi, can someone tell me who would do it - catch is that I'd like to see the same already done and running on another OHC? Heck, I can't even find a half-decent porter-polisher !!

Engine Swaps and Tuning in general needs to reach a critical mass before we make any claims to these being "popular" options.


Regards,
Manveet

p.s.
The above was just my opinion and no disrespect to the tuner community here - you guys are doing a good job but it'll take some time before we get there.

Last edited by manveet : 12th April 2007 at 02:31.
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Old 12th April 2007, 08:32   #116
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Originally Posted by manveet
I believe that Engine Swaps are not popular in India.
Actually engine swaps ARE very popular .. Atleast in bangalore .. In the last two years i have come across atleast 80 zens running honda and suzi engines .. Two mivec lancers , not to mention single seaters running with bigger engines , V6's and V8's in old restoration projects etc ..

Quote:
I may be sounding cynical, but please stop kidding college kids that their free-flow exhaust K&N intake equipped Lancer is now doing 125 bhp !!
At the end of the day its the owners duty also to do a bit of research and not blindly follow these claims and not be a complete dud .. A good tuner to begin with , shall not give out such claims to begin with on the INDIAN Lancer engine .. I know quite a few of them .. I have also seen a few tuners in bombay who have conned a few of my friends otherwise .. Eg : Swapnil , a friend from another forum spent loads of money and his car ended up being slower than a stock car .. Now he wants to know why ?? Nothing personal against anyone in bombay but i have quoted this just as an eg ..

Quote:
Today, if I want to get an engine swap done on my OHC in Delhi, can someone tell me who would do it - catch is that I'd like to see the same already done and running on another OHC?
Indeed thats a problem .. There are NO tuners in delhi .. One good tuner who could achieve the claims he makes will become a billionaire in no time ..
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Old 12th April 2007, 09:47   #117
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Actually engine swaps ARE very popular .. Atleast in bangalore .. In the last two years i have come across atleast 80 zens running honda and suzi engines .. Two mivec lancers , not to mention single seaters running with bigger engines , V6's and V8's in old restoration projects etc ..
Yes, you're right. I'd like to correct myself here - I forgot to take into account the considerable number of traditional e-zens, b-zens, etc.

I was thinking more in terms of the universal Mivec's, B16's, V8's etc. And like you correctly mentioned - although they do validate the capability of the Tuner, a handful of Mivecs, Evo's and restoration Projects do not indicate popularity.

Hope this clarifies my point i.e. the critical mass, numbers and accessibility perspective that I am coming from.
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Old 12th April 2007, 10:01   #118
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Originally Posted by manveet View Post
I believe that Engine Swaps are not popular in India.

Yes, being a member of T-bhp I am lucky to be aware of the few people who do engine swaps and the extent to which it has been successful but, and this is a big but - is this the definition of popular?
I somehow would tend to agree with Manveet ont his point. To the fact that there is a large following of "swapped engines", and i am sure there are a large number of good tuners, the numbers are still in single digits. I believe that if something needs to be popular, then there must be a lot more talk about it. Here the term "mod" still refers to a body kit, people need to be educated more into what engines are and how can they be tuned up.

We still try and think about mileage while thinking about tuning the car, one cannot have the cake and eat it too. Education is the first step. Then popularity and cult status follows later.

Bolt on mods are another very largely misconstrued line of thought. I really think we, as auto enthusiasts, need to have an "education" section in T-Bhp. Where one starts with the basics, and moves onto the high ends and extreme mods. This will prevent anyone from shooting off, and tempers flaring. A carefully constructed enclyopedia section is a must, for people to be able to refer for anything from ABS to Xenon lamps.

Just a point to note: how many "modded" cars were there for track day? not more than 100? Even for the speed runs, what is this a percentage of the total car ownership?

These are just my thoughts. We need to all work together to increase the popularity of motor sports and SAFE motoring.
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Old 12th April 2007, 13:02   #119
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Nextlevel - a little late in the day but anyhow, welcome aboard

This may be OT but I want to add some "non-tuner" perspective to your queries and the discussion in general, perhaps that would give you (and others esp. Viper, Nitroxx, Psycho, Rocam, Arush et. al.) some more insight.

I believe that Engine Swaps are not popular in India.

Yes, being a member of T-bhp I am lucky to be aware of the few people who do engine swaps and the extent to which it has been successful but, and this is a big but - is this the definition of popular?

The day a auto-enthusiast decides to go in for a Engine Swap and he has easy access to the tuners who do the job, plenty of references to verify the tuners credibility along with assured reliability of the job being performed - not to mention demonstrated results - that is the day I would consider it to be popular in India.

I may be sounding cynical, but please stop kidding college kids that their free-flow exhaust K&N intake equipped Lancer is now doing 125 bhp !! - the poor guys lose to stock OHC's and feel bad

Today, if I want to get an engine swap done on my OHC in Delhi, can someone tell me who would do it - catch is that I'd like to see the same already done and running on another OHC? Heck, I can't even find a half-decent porter-polisher !!

Engine Swaps and Tuning in general needs to reach a critical mass before we make any claims to these being "popular" options.

Regards,
Manveet

p.s.
The above was just my opinion and no disrespect to the tuner community here - you guys are doing a good job but it'll take some time before we get there.
Not late in the day at all man, thank you! Also thank you for the insight. You know, just a thought...would the team-bhp people be willing to set up a donation page for bhpians to kick in and get a dyno? I'm unfamiliar with what the situation is with the site owners, if any of them have a shop, etc. I know some of the 350Z sites do stuff like that. I'm sure Next Level would would send a donation to help get you guys rollin'....1 dyno per billion people shouldn't be too much to ask
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Old 12th April 2007, 13:36   #120
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Engine Swaps.. hmm nice topic.
Engine swaps for performance, well they are uncommon.
Otherwise india got bitten by the Engine swap bug in the 80s and early nineties when fuel prices started skyrocketing upwards, and diesel stayed close to earth.
So at that time people we putting in Daihatsu diesel engines in the M800 which gives 15kmpl in city easily, which translates to around 40mpg city and around 50mpg+ highway. Inspite of such high mileage, people were putting in diesel engines.

Many Fiat 1100s, 118NE in the second hand market were bought for 30,000 odd and and then fitted with diesel engines from Toyota etc.,
With the recent revolution in the IT industry engine swaps have kinda dissapeared from the big cities.
However there is an entire jeep market in Delhi where almost scrap condition jeeps bought for peanuts from Army etc., are reconditioned and imported Toyota engines etc., are put in.
My personal experience with engine swap vehicle was of a family friend who got a gypsy(non king 45hp version). After paying fuel for about 6 months and finding it expensive the guy plonked in a diesel, a peugot one.
Another friend of mine bought an army surplus jeep for 5000rs, and plonked in a Peugot engine.
If you visit the small towns in Punjab, and old parts of big towns like Ludhiana and Jalandhar where you have full cottage industries flourishing in engine swaps.

Note, the numbers I am talking about is in thousands. In the 80s there was this immense craze of fitting in diesel engines in 800s though the most common targets were the Fiats and Ambassadors.

Down south my experience is with a Fiat 1100 with a diesel engine(a toyota engine I think).
She does 130kmph on the speedo on straights, gives 20+kmpl on highways, and has been giving the owner(a doctor who can afford a merc I think) very good service for past 5 years.
His other car is an esteem but due to nostalgic reasons he drives the 1100.
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