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Old 18th February 2013, 14:50   #31
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Default Re: Dent on my swift

Okay I need to visit a good Denter Painter / or perhaps a Bumper repair person.

Yesterday a speeding rusty old Indica, zigzagging around traffic scraped the front Bumper of my Toyota Camry. He just vanished after that as he knew it was his fault.

It was really painful because I drive very carefully and it is first time in 2 years that my Camry got any damage.

It seems the Camry has a plastic bumper. The Bumper has got some scratches and a 2" -3" long cut. Can these Plastic Bumpers be repaired for cuts ? I intend to get the bumper repaired and painted. A new Bumper costs 10K + Cost of painting + labour. The total cost of replacing the bumper at the Authorised Service Center is about 20K.

Does anybody know of a good place for denting / repairing / bumper repairing in Delhi ?

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Last edited by Styler : 18th February 2013 at 15:05.
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Old 18th February 2013, 15:28   #32
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Default Re: Dent on my swift

Here are a couple of pictures of the damaged fender of my Camry.
At the bottom right of the second image, you can see the cut on the bumper.
The Fog light bracket just came off, and I have it. It can be put back after repairs.
Do you guys think the bumper can be repaired ?
Also what should be the cost of repair and paint of the bumper. I guess they will take out the bumper, repair, paint the whole bumper and fix it back.
Styler
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Dent on my swift-img_0746.jpg  

Dent on my swift-img_0748.jpg  


Last edited by Styler : 18th February 2013 at 15:29.
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Old 18th February 2013, 17:51   #33
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Default Re: Dent on my swift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
Here are a couple of pictures of the damaged fender of my Camry.
At the bottom right of the second image, you can see the cut on the bumper.
The Fog light bracket just came off, and I have it. It can be put back after repairs.
Do you guys think the bumper can be repaired ?
Also what should be the cost of repair and paint of the bumper. I guess they will take out the bumper, repair, paint the whole bumper and fix it back.
Styler
Hey Styler!

I dont have a first hand experience in getting such a repair. But seems very much doable, there are these special bumper repairing shops (I know one near Ashok Vihar-Lawrence Road near Metro Station in north Delhi). These guys have arrangements for something like plastic welding too and the entire lane specializes in bumper repairs only.
Might solve your problem to 90-95%, but still worth a try before plonking in 20k for a new one.

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Old 18th February 2013, 19:53   #34
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Default Re: Dent on my swift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
Here are a couple of pictures of the damaged fender of my Camry.
At the bottom right of the second image, you can see the cut on the bumper.
The Fog light bracket just came off, and I have it. It can be put back after repairs.
Do you guys think the bumper can be repaired ?
Also what should be the cost of repair and paint of the bumper. I guess they will take out the bumper, repair, paint the whole bumper and fix it back.
Styler
The preferred method for plastic parts is replacement IMO. The local dentshops use filler or a similar compound to level out the scratches and dings, and do some sanding. Based on what I have seen on two of my neighbours cars, I wouldnt recommend it. Maybe I am a perfectionist, and I spend more than what is required, but I wouldnt get a filler job done especially on a plastic part. Here is why:

Case 1: Neighbour X banged the rear bumper of his Dzire while reversing, and it had suffered some scratches, and a dent the shape of a pole hitting the bumper. He sent it to MASS, where they gave him the two options, repair or replacement. Looking at the lesser cost, he went in for replacement. The job was done perfectly.

A few months later, he again suffered a small nick near the same area, due to his son accidentally moving his bike ahead. The expected usual damage is a scratch and a small ding, but what happened was, the entire area to which the filler was applied just cracked and fell off the bumper, creating a large spot showing up the previous paint. That pointed out towards improper bonding of the filler. I thought it was a bad workmanship.

Case 2: The same incident repeated on another neighbours verna, where the filler cracked and fell off even if the collision was minor. I can post pictures of what has happened. He too had got his bumper patched up and repainted a couple of months back.

So, What I can conclude is that, plastic parts can be sanded and surfaced, but application of filler will not give good results in the longrun, in holding up. You can get an overcoat done, as the existing paint will provide good bonding, but I feel a filler wont hold up. Again, you can decide based upon your preference.
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Old 18th February 2013, 20:53   #35
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The preferred method for plastic parts is replacement IMO. The local dentshops use filler or a similar compound to level out the scratches and dings, and do some sanding.
Audioholic you are correct in that. But it seems they do plastic welding to repair the bumper first. Then there is no need for filling. If that is possible than it makes sense to get it repaired.

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Old 18th February 2013, 23:18   #36
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Default Re: Dent on my swift

Such things do exist. But however they wont be able to achieve a smooth contour by such methods. They take the help of putty. Hence, the job gets screwed. Usually guys opposite my house use gas welding, followed by sanding and then filling followed by sanding and painting again. From the pictures, it is observed that the bumper has crumpled into the chassis portion, thus tearing it up. This part must be welded and filled, and the scratch above it will have to be filled. Rest can be just sanded and repainted. Assuming the use filler only where required, I think it will hold up well.
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Old 19th February 2013, 00:18   #37
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Yes it can be repaired. The typical cost for such a repair is generally around 300-400 bucks here in Delhi. Not sure if they would accept the same amount for a camry although the work involved is exactly the same. The paint charges vary from around rs.1500-2500 in different areas for the whole bumper.
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Old 19th February 2013, 08:59   #38
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I will take a call by tomorrow about what to do.
These new age plastic bumpers are really just for looks, they have no strength.
Compare these to the Bumpers in my old Cielo. Those took really bad hits but never got damaged. I think the bumpers of the Cielo are Fibreglass or something.
I wonder why the bumpers of these new age cars are made of such a weak plastic these days. The bumpers are the parts which take the hardest hits, they should be ideally built strong with fibreglass or something.

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Old 19th February 2013, 11:30   #39
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There are plenty of locations in Delhi. I have had to repair my bumpers on regular basis. The last job was on my Alto K10, where some boys pushing their car banged the corner of their bumper into my rear bumper - a big dent was the result. I goit it repaired at INA market for Rs. 200. Here is what he did
. Dismantled the bumper and took it out.
. Used heat to soften the bumper and then pushed it back to shape
. While the bumper was hot (and soft), he smoothed it up to the best of effort. There were small shallow scratches left though.

I did not go further, but my local painter assured me if I get it repainted, it would be as good as new. Here is what he would do
. Sand the old paint and the scratches out so that the surface is smooth
. Apply a thin coat (actually multiple thin coats) of special putty where required and sand it to a smooth finish.
. Apply multiple coats of paint to give it a glossy finish.

The total cost would be lower side of 2K.

In my Esteem I always chose to change the bumper as it was about 1 to 1.5K and I liked the black bumper better than a body coloured one. Maruti dealer workshops charge around 5-6k for a new bumper+paint job.
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Old 24th February 2013, 17:01   #40
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Default Re: Dent on my swift

Okay I got the Bumber repaired. I found a good Bumper Repair guy here in Vasant Kunj itself. They removed the Bumper, Repaired it with their heating gun, and fixed it back.
I am really happy with the job. The surface was almost smooth after the repair.

I was quoted Rs 600 for the Repair, and 1800 for Bumper Repair and painting.
Initially I had settled to get it painted too. The painter put in the filler at the repaired points and smoothened the surface, and sanded the entire bumper slightly.

They told me although the Colors are computer created, the final matching is done by a person called the Color Matcher. This so called "Color Matcher" was there to match the color for a paint job of a Honda City, and I saw them adding small quantities of colors to the silver paint to match it. They told me that this manual matching is done even after a Computer created paint. Is that true ? At this point I lost confidence in getting it painted there and returned without getting it painted. I payed Rs 800 (Bumper Repair, and initial surface preparing).

I just need to get the Bumper painted now. I don't want to compromise on the paint job. It has to be perfect. I was thinking of getting it painted at the Toyota Authorized Service Center Galaxy Toyota. I spoke to them on Phone and they quoted Rs 6,600 for the painting of a Single Front Bumper. They told me that they will create the base for the entire bumper and it is a full day job. That is steep compared to the 1000 extra I had to pay to get it painted at the Bumper Repair place itself. I don't mind paying the extra if I know it will be a perfect job, and it does involve a long process.

Now what I need to know from the experts here is what are the exact processes involved in getting the Paint job done? What is the Brand of Paint that is used ? And does it make sense to get it painted at Galaxy Toyota for 6,600. If this is steep can somebody recommend some other professional place with a paint booth to get it painted.

Thanks
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Old 24th February 2013, 17:15   #41
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I think the color matcher will spray a short patch of paint and he will take it close to your car and visualize. If the colour matches fine if not as in case of a old vehicle whose colour would have changed over the time then he would readjust the color till it matches completely.
Although this skill is not a very specialized skill for a person who is experienced in detailing trade but yes every other person can not do it.
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Old 24th February 2013, 18:37   #42
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Thats a common practice. They generally match it again because the computer generated color is for a new car and with time their is slight deviation from the original color as the car gets older.
You can see the guy painting other cars, if you feel satisfied go ahead.If the filler and sanding has been done properly, painting is not a tough job as such.
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Old 24th February 2013, 22:52   #43
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Default Re: Dent on my swift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
what are the exact processes involved in getting the Paint job done? What is the Brand of Paint that is used ?
Styler
Exact process for a paint job: You have two choices
Choice 1) Go to your Friendly Neighborhood Garage(FNG).
Broadly these are the steps followed:
a) Wash the area with a bucket of tap-water(assumed that the area has been readied -i.e. removed dents,applied filler & sanded etc.
b) Mop the wet surface, and complete masking the area.
c) Apply thinner to remove any dust/grime. Note - there's no stopping dust/grime to get on the surface after the fact - because usually they park the car on the side of a busy street.
d) Mix paint (previously color matched) and a quick dry compound, and spray that on - usually multiple sprays are needed
e) Apply a clear-coat
f) Wait several hours for it to dry
g) Rub the area down with rubbing compound and if you are lucky polish the area before giving it back to you

Optional - if you are hanging around and know something about the paint process, he may apply paint primer, before spraying on the paint (step d)


Choice 2: Go to the main dealer
He will do all the above including the paint primer bit, however caveat emptor:

The main differences are :
i) His paint is not color matched by his computer or humint. It comes directly from the factory.
This does not mean that it will match the color of your Camry. This is because your Camry's color is already a blend of different shades of the base color. This blend is due to varying degrees of sun-burn and effects of living in a polluted environment. not to mention degradation of the paint itself.
The reason I know is because when you quiz the guys at Galaxy Toyota (or any other main dealer) about producing an exact match - they suddenly get very cagey about the quality of the paint job.

ii) He has a paint booth complete with air extractor, and infrared heat lamps.
This means that - there is less chance of any untoward particulate matter settling down on the paint, and the paint's thermal bonding to the underlying layers hopefully leads to more consistent results (imagine the paint drying outdoors on a rainy day!)

iii) He is usually 3-4 times more expensive than FNG depending on your negotiation skills with the 'dent-paint' service adviser.

Choice 3: Go to a private workshop
Results here can be mixed. Such workshops have most of the equipment that A.S.S. have, but lack the factory sourced paint.
Secondly, reputable private workshops are few and far-between. Most of these are a shade or two better than FNG, but that's about as good as it gets. A few are a cut above the rest (e.g. Pandit) however, with time, they have had their share of irate customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styler View Post
does it make sense to get it painted at Galaxy Toyota
Styler
That really is the key question. So, the key factors are:
i)
The main dealer's workshop is less likely to be affected by the environment. So if it is the rainy season , or you live in an area frequented by dust storms - choose the main dealer.

ii)
The skills of the painter are not differentiable - so you can expect similar proficiency levels at the main dealer and at the FNG. In fact the FNG is probably better assuming you choose someone popular. Popular means he has a few cars waiting for 'dent-paint' work, and you are reasonably convinced - that put together, they represent all possible types of damage that a car may endure.

iii)
Color match is really in the eye of the beholder. Having said that, you must take into account the affected area of the car:
If the area is not conspicuous (e.g. below the door), or prone to getting damaged in the daily struggle for existence in a metropolis (e.g. a bumper) - you are better off with the FNG - primarily due to economic reasons.
If, the area is conspicuous , you are better off sticking to the main dealer - after having completed an initial pass at removal of the larger dents/blemishes. This is because that can give you some leeway in negotiating a better price for the paint job to follow.
One tip- negotiate in person, and when other customers are out-of-earshot.

iv) The economics
Some people are willing to spend a little extra - for the satisfaction of a near perfect paint job. That probably lasts as long as the next scratch.
Others are willing to spend a little less, because they know the next scratch is not too far away.
And the rest are willing to wait for the next scratch , and the next and so on.. until it gets just too unbearable to see, or time to sell the car - in which case - they either sell the damn car or get it repaired at one go or both.

Hope all this helps. Best of luck!

Last edited by joybhowmik : 24th February 2013 at 23:01.
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Old 25th February 2013, 09:02   #44
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Quote:
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Exact process for a paint job
Thanks Joy,

That was the best piece of advice I have got. I will get it done in a day or two and post pictures here.

Styler

Last edited by Styler : 25th February 2013 at 09:06.
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Old 27th February 2013, 17:43   #45
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Okay people the Camry Came back. I'm so glad, it looks as good as new.
I finally trusted my Friendly Neighborhood Mechanic who is a good friend too to take the Car from my place, get it painted from the best painter he knows and get it back.
Total Expenses were 2,800 (800 Paid to Repair the Bumper, and 2000 for the Paint).
I am attaching a couple of pictures here.
Thanks everybody for all the advice.

Styler
Attached Thumbnails
Dent on my swift-img_0753.jpg  

Dent on my swift-img_0754.jpg  


Last edited by Styler : 27th February 2013 at 17:51.
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