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Old 4th June 2007, 07:00   #1
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Cool Is there any real need for sulphur in Diesel ?

I've heard that sulphur is added to diesel for lubricity since it's essential for fuel system components such as injectors & fuel pumps. Also, it's useful for seals because it can prevent shrinking or swelling of some types of engine seals & O-rings. Is that true ?

And, I've heard that the Indian Government has introduced Low Sulphur Diesel (LSD) with the sulphur content of all diesel fuels reduced. This is part of a global movement to use cleaner diesel products to reduce pollution. Sulphur acts as a lubricant & does not burn in the diesel combustion process, enters the atmosphere as sulphur dioxide, & comes back down as ‘fallout’ or ‘acid rain’.

So what is the type of Diesel mainly available throughout India ?

And, does the new-age diesels need any sulphur or is it limited to the oldies ?
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Old 4th June 2007, 08:34   #2
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Almost all pumps in India are on LSD, if you are worried about lubricity, then you should regularly use additive diesels sold at major pumps like Turbojet, Speed etc. You can also add STP Diesel Treatment or ELF DALF or other additives. Lubrication is a major issue in newer pumps as well due to their extremely high pressure operation, internal memo from BOSCH have indicated that severe wear of the pumps taking place due to lack of lubrication in CRDI engines. In the older pumps, its mostly an issue of seals as LSD tends to dry out the old seals leading to leakage.
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Old 4th June 2007, 09:19   #3
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Sulphur doesn't induce lubricity in diesel. it is induced by other ingredients that were once upon a time being removed by de-suplharization of diesel in old process. Now Sulphur is removed from diesel without removing the contents that act as lubricants so No worries.
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Old 4th June 2007, 10:24   #4
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Reduction in sulphur results in reduction of aromatic compounds, which can result in failure of some seals. Due to this reduction in sulphur content, you can also have the side effect in reduction of lubricity
Diesel Fuels Question and Answers - New s15 ULSD Regulations
ULSD diesel filled cars need to use a higher grade engine oil
API-CJ is the minimum specification required.
Using this engine oil ULSD can be filled in older cars, but if you fill in LSD or HSD in newer cars the EGR and Emission systems will fail.
The Transition to Ultra-Low-Sulfur Diesel Fuel: Effects on Prices and Supply - Executive Summary
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Old 4th June 2007, 15:51   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Sulphur doesn't induce lubricity in diesel. it is induced by other ingredients that were once upon a time being removed by de-suplharization of diesel in old process. Now Sulphur is removed from diesel without removing the contents that act as lubricants so No worries.

Seems like you got this from the wiki at Ultra-low sulfur diesel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But do take a look at this for the lubricity issue here, as I said before, BOSCH is admitting in their internal memo of premature pump failure, we see many CDRI engines today smoking at 80,000km or less.

Beware of* the new S15 ULSD Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel arriving Oct 2006 – OfficialBioDiesel.com
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Old 4th June 2007, 16:00   #6
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Companies have overcome this problem of lubricity by using API-SJ oil. Many people fill in API-CH(synthetic diesel engine oil) in cars rated for ULSD, and do not get the required lubrication.
I have posted the Chevron lubrication FAQ about ULSD and they also warn about non API-CJ use.
Castrol as a similar FAQ page where they also insist that ULSD modern diesel engines require API-CJ grade oil for proper performance.
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Old 4th June 2007, 16:16   #7
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Problem is the best oil in India, Mobil Delvac as well as Cheveron Delo 400 are still rated at CI, even Toyota dealers fill the Innova with CH oil.
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Old 4th June 2007, 16:23   #8
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Why do you need CJ oil in India.
We do not have ULSD, only LSD. For that API-CF is good enough.
As for the dealers, as long as they fill in the oil recommended in service manual its okay.
Tata safari gets API-CF Castrol GTD.
A cheap API-CI option is Castrol GTX diesel, which is not used in Tata dealerships(dunno why), even though its very cheap(Same as GTD)
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Old 4th June 2007, 18:15   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Why do you need CJ oil in India.
We do not have ULSD, only LSD. For that API-CF is good enough.
As for the dealers, as long as they fill in the oil recommended in service manual its okay.
Tata safari gets API-CF Castrol GTD.
A cheap API-CI option is Castrol GTX diesel, which is not used in Tata dealerships(dunno why), even though its very cheap(Same as GTD)

Check the VW/Audi/Skoda ACEA requirments for their diesels, even with LSD, you need CJ oil, most modern engines dump significant amount of soot etc. into the crankcase to neccesiate the use of CI and CJ oils.
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Old 4th June 2007, 22:34   #10
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Most indian diesel cars(atleast Tata) have API-CF listed as requirement, though the engine oil bible states that you need API-CG4 for diesel engine running LSD(<0.5%).
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Old 4th June 2007, 22:57   #11
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These 3 params will be affected in LSD

1. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear.The processing required to reduce sulfur also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel

2. In general, the processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also reduces the aromatics content and density of diesel fuel, resulting in a reduction in energy content (BTU/gal).

The expected reduction in energy content is on the order of 1% and may affect fuel mileage.

3. Cetane Number:
In general, the processing required to reduce sulfur to 15ppm also reduces the aromatics content

According to Diesel Fuels Question and Answers - New s15 ULSD Regulations
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Old 4th June 2007, 23:09   #12
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MAG actually thats what we were discussing. The same link says API-CJ for ULSD.
India has LSD and for that we need API-CG4 according to most web sites, but surprisingly all manufacturers use API-CF.
Anybody with a Hyundai Verna or Hyundai Elantra, could you please confirm what your service book states about engine oil?
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Old 5th June 2007, 07:00   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
MAG actually thats what we were discussing. The same link says API-CJ for ULSD.
India has LSD and for that we need API-CG4 according to most web sites, but surprisingly all manufacturers use API-CF.
Anybody with a Hyundai Verna or Hyundai Elantra, could you please confirm what your service book states about engine oil?
Oil is just not diesel specific but also car specific, as I mentioned, VW is very particular about a certain type of oil and in any conditions, recommend that only for their engines, this is because any other type will sludge up the engine. Most of the engines being sold by major foreign manufacturers need CH or CI oils if you go by their manuals made for western countries, maybe due to the unavailability of the CH CI oils, they have gone with CF, I know for sure even Bharat Petroleum makes Mak Diamond Plus which is CI oil.
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Old 5th June 2007, 08:19   #14
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Actually CI/CH oil is not that rare. The problem is that many people here use oils which work for both petrol and diesel engines. So when you have a API-SM oil, which is excellent for petrol, the max you can go in diesel land is API-CF.
I fill in castrol GTX diesel which is API-CI oil, and costs less than castrol Magnatec, infact it costs same as other API-CF oils.
As for MAK diamond plus, I could not find it at any fuel station at delhi. Before I got castrol GTX diesel, I was looking for this one.
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Old 5th June 2007, 08:57   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Actually CI/CH oil is not that rare. The problem is that many people here use oils which work for both petrol and diesel engines. So when you have a API-SM oil, which is excellent for petrol, the max you can go in diesel land is API-CF.
I fill in castrol GTX diesel which is API-CI oil, and costs less than castrol Magnatec, infact it costs same as other API-CF oils.
As for MAK diamond plus, I could not find it at any fuel station at delhi. Before I got castrol GTX diesel, I was looking for this one.

Instead of Castrol GTX diesel, a much superior oil for diesel and gassers and the best value in today's oil market would be Delo 400 and Delvac MX, both are available in Delhi, take a look at the UOAs posted at BITOG, they equal or excel synthetics, Delo 400 is a group-II ISOSYNTH which performs on par with synthetics, Delvac is group-I oil with formidable additive package making it as good as Delo 400 in terms of wear. These multi fleet gas/diesel rated oils are so versatile that they can be used in gensets, pumps, motorcycles as well as other apps. Delo 400 for instance is rated for Allison T5 transmission.
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