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Old 25th July 2012, 14:51   #46
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by suman View Post
Bumping up an old thread since I have a related question......

Would anyone be able to highlight possible downsides of EBD not being present? Let's say, a car with ABS, EBD & BA versus a car with only ABS & BA?

My question arises out of the fact that I recently found out that the Rapid does not come with EBD (Vento doesn't either) - had always been under the impression that both went hand in hand!

EBD will distribute the brake force evenly to those wheels which have more traction when there are some wheels which are slipping on the tarmac.Let me explain. Suppose you are driving a car with EBD and you encounter a patch of gravel where you have to brake.Assume that the FR and RR wheels are on the sand the LF and LR wheels are on good tarmac.So when you hit the brakes , EBD ensures that the two wheels which are having good traction get the maximum braking power so that the loss of braking is not that significant.Ofcourse the braking power applied on the two good wheels should also not exceed a value that will make them lock.That would be even more dangerous. So EBD is always used with ABS. Hope i have made it clear

Info about brake assist can be got here
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advi...ke-assist.aspx

Last edited by sagarpadaki : 25th July 2012 at 14:55.
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Old 25th July 2012, 15:13   #47
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

Thanks, I'm totally acquainted with what each of these are

My question was more about whether anyone had any first hand experience or insight on the downside of EBD being missing.

Last edited by suman : 25th July 2012 at 15:14.
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Old 25th July 2012, 17:14   #48
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Originally Posted by suman
Thanks, I'm totally acquainted with what each of these are

My question was more about whether anyone had any first hand experience or insight on the downside of EBD being missing.
No first hand experience, but this is an interesting question and after some thought, i can only think of two benefits of EBD. Reducing the wear and tear of the brake components and, increasing the effectiveness of the brakes on less tractable surfaces (other than tarmac?)

ABS systems have independent brake channels for all the wheels and by their function, render mechanical brake distribution; by de-activating the brake pressure during locking. Once traction is regained, full value brake pressure is applied till the next lock. Full value is the amount of brake pedal pressed.

EBD regulates the brake pressure. It may give a half value brake pressure (progressively) for wheels with lesser traction. This increases the life of the brake components by reducing the number of lock and release cycles.

More importantly allows for more 'analytics' to be built in, when coupled with different safety systems (ESP, ASR et al), or more inputs like yaw, weight on wheels, steering and gas input, temperature etc

Crudely put, ABS is a reactive system, while the EBD systems are proactive. Coming to real world situations on tarmac, without EBD, you should feel more pulsation in the brake pedal, when the ABS is engaged. But under panic situations, both systems should behave identically as maximum brake force is applied. The effectiveness on less tractable surfaces maybe less for systems without EBD.

If VW omitted this, then they do not see users using their cars on non tarmac surfaces. But I still can't believe how they manage to find all these corners to cut.

All of this is a 'simulated in my head' view. I may be 100% wrong.
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Old 7th August 2013, 07:18   #49
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

Currently EcoSport is coming without EBD. From security point of view, what difference does it make? Please note that the higher variants of EcoSport comes with just ABS
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Old 7th August 2013, 11:17   #50
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Currently EcoSport is coming without EBD. From security point of view, what difference does it make?
If you want to stop your car faster in emergency situations than EBD is a must.
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Old 7th August 2013, 11:33   #51
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by brraj View Post
If you want to stop your car faster in emergency situations than EBD is a must.
With my experience, I felt on bad roads (Say slippery road or roads with gravels), the braking distance will be more with EBD in place.
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Old 7th August 2013, 12:10   #52
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by anumod View Post
With my experience, I felt on bad roads (Say slippery road or roads with gravels), the braking distance will be more with EBD in place.
I was talking about cars on tarmac.
Never tested braking ability on bad roads as anyway we will be driving slow.
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Old 7th August 2013, 15:30   #53
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by brraj View Post
I was talking about cars on tarmac.
Never tested braking ability on bad roads as anyway we will be driving slow.
One basic question, on even on Good roads with good grip, how does it reduces the breaking distance. With EBD, it distributes the break force uniquely, so that means the tyre which gets lesser friction will get more break force compared to all others. With this logic the breaking distance will be more with EBD
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Old 7th August 2013, 15:55   #54
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by anumod View Post
One basic question, on even on Good roads with good grip, how does it reduces the breaking distance.
Because EBD can apply more or less braking pressure to each wheel in order to maximize stopping power whilst maintaining vehicular control.

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...e_distribution

You need to experience it with vehicles which has (just ABS) and with (ABS+EBD).

Try driving Elantra crdi / Swift ZXI which has ABS+EBD
Also try old verna crdi which had just ABS you will know the answers for yourself.

Last edited by brraj : 7th August 2013 at 15:56.
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Old 7th August 2013, 19:47   #55
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by brraj View Post
Because EBD can apply more or less braking pressure to each wheel in order to maximize stopping power whilst maintaining vehicular control.

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...e_distribution

You need to experience it with vehicles which has (just ABS) and with (ABS+EBD).

Try driving Elantra crdi / Swift ZXI which has ABS+EBD
Also try old verna crdi which had just ABS you will know the answers for yourself.
Currently I drive a Fiesta which has ABS with EBD and I felt the breaking distance is more compared to a car with a car doesn't have ABS. The first car I have driven without EBD and just ABS was EcoSport and I felt the breaking distance is less compared to My fiesta and hence I got this doubt as well.
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Old 9th August 2013, 16:40   #56
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by anumod View Post
Currently I drive a Fiesta which has ABS with EBD and I felt the breaking distance is more compared to a car with a car doesn't have ABS. The first car I have driven without EBD and just ABS was EcoSport and I felt the breaking distance is less compared to My fiesta and hence I got this doubt as well.
Not just EBD, Braking power depends on lot of other factors like Tyres, Brake pads, Rotors etc..

You need to check brake bleeding thread aswell
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-bleeding.html (What is Brake bleeding????)
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Old 18th September 2013, 09:34   #57
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

Usually most cars come with ABS+EBD safety package. But, few cars like Ecosport, Polo, Grand i10, Vento etc doesn't equipped EBD. I thought it would be worth to discuss about them here.

Have they not displayed EBD in their site and brochures because of Patent reasons? Or they really doesn't have that feature in those cars? If Not, does they equipped any alternative mechanism other than ABS?
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Old 18th September 2013, 18:14   #58
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by brraj View Post
By the way do you guys know how to check if EBD is installed or not?
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Originally Posted by flipsyde View Post
i have read that ABS and EBD basically share about 90% of parts.....EBD is more or less left to the configuration of the ECU.
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Originally Posted by VBV View Post
What's the opinion here in TBHP? Does ABS/EBD reduce braking distance?
Quote:
EBD is an automobile brake technology that automatically varies the amount of force applied to each of a vehicle's brakes, based on road conditions, speed, loading, etc. Always coupled with anti-lock braking systems
Source: Wikipedia

EBD is always hand-in-hand with ABS. I don't think it is always giving sole in a car. The EBD just modulates the brake pressure to each wheel by sensors that sense the wheel speed and grip it is having at that point of time.

Anurag.
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Old 18th September 2013, 18:38   #59
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Source: Wikipedia

EBD is always hand-in-hand with ABS. I don't think it is always giving sole in a car. The EBD just modulates the brake pressure to each wheel by sensors that sense the wheel speed and grip it is having at that point of time.

Anurag.
I dont think so,I have a Scorpio,and it has ABS only,there is no mention of EBD anywhere in the Manual or anywhere else.
However in my Linea its specifically mentioned ABS+EBD.
Infact EBD has a separate error code and a light associated in the console.
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Old 18th September 2013, 18:52   #60
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Default Re: ABS with EBD?

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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
I dont think so,

Infact EBD has a separate error code and a light associated in the console.
Thank you Akshay. I thought both are coupled together and never a feature that is separate.

Anurag.
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