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Old 8th July 2009, 19:43   #151
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Originally Posted by Fortuner71 View Post
hi all,

Some problem areas from my OHC , its run 53000 kms.

1) Gear shift is hard
2) Jerking on clutch release at low speeds ( 1st , 2nd Gear ).

I assume this to be due to the clutch => Need expert advice here , am I right ?

Questions :

1) Cost of clutch replacement ?


Thanks for the help.
1: Get the gear oil changed

2. Your clutch is busted, get the clutch, pressure plate and the release bearing changed.

The cost of the clutch is directly dependent on which clutch you use (stock or staged). I think replacing it in the company will set you back by some 10-16k. However, you can get Exedy (stock replacement), the same brand that comes as OEM on honda for abt 3k-4k from outside.

Locate a good workshop and get it changed.

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Originally Posted by Sunilb View Post
My OHC also has the same problem which I too thought to be the clutch issue but its working fine.
Then I read in one of the threads quoting it to be faulty ECU for all OHCs upto 2003. Need someone to revalidate this.

You're somewhat right,that error was with cars pre September 2002. Post that Honda had rectified that issue.

The jerking that was mentioned is no way related to having hard gear shifts.

I have a pre sep 2002 vtec and I have that jerking issue, but I can shift my gear with my little finger .

Cheers
Shrey

Last edited by Rehaan : 8th July 2009 at 21:01.
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Old 8th July 2009, 19:59   #152
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how come replacing in company will cost 16K and outside 4k ?
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Old 8th July 2009, 23:54   #153
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Guys, I went to Honda and got the car checked, it happened to be Clogged drain-outlets.
Under the car, where the painted side of the running body meets the floor, there are 3 outlets top, middle and end. 1. sort of under the accelerator :-) 2. under driver's butt 3. under the rear passenger.
(rain/wash) water runs into the body hollow and is supposed to drain, if blocked then the hollow part of the body is on slow poison "Rust".
i thought it was fuel making the splash under my bum.
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Old 9th July 2009, 09:06   #154
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Originally Posted by ssjr0498 View Post
1: Get the gear oil changed

2. Your clutch is busted, get the clutch, pressure plate and the release bearing changed.

The cost of the clutch is directly dependent on which clutch you use (stock or staged). I think replacing it in the company will set you back by some 10-16k. However, you can get Exedy (stock replacement), the same brand that comes as OEM on honda for abt 3k-4k from outside.

Locate a good workshop and get it changed.




You're somewhat right,that error was with cars pre September 2002. Post that Honda had rectified that issue.

The jerking that was mentioned is no way related to having hard gear shifts.

I have a pre sep 2002 vtec and I have that jerking issue, but I can shift my gear with my little finger .

Cheers
Shrey
Thank you Shrey, any advice on a good garage , I live on sarjapur road ?
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Old 9th July 2009, 12:34   #155
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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
I have a 2001 ohc. No such issue happened. How can this be related to the ecu? I don't think there is any correlation.
Hey Tejas,
Just go through the initial posts of this very thread referring to this faulty ECU posted by GTO and Viper way back in 2007.
They too had faced similar problems in their OHCs. Need to know from them how they got rid of it or its still there.
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Old 9th July 2009, 12:38   #156
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It's probably isolated to the VTEC's ECU. Present in mine too since my car's a 2000 model, but should be gone after I upgrade and remap the ECU. You have to slip and play with the clutch a lot because of this problem or the car jerks violently at low-rpms.
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Old 9th July 2009, 12:40   #157
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Default OHC Clutch Replacement

Dakshin Honda service advisor quoted 22K for the whole clutch work.
Advice, is this the rate at showrooms?

Need help on good service centers in Bangalore . I think i should get the work done outside , advice needed .
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Old 9th July 2009, 15:58   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
It's probably isolated to the VTEC's ECU. Present in mine too since my car's a 2000 model, but should be gone after I upgrade and remap the ECU. You have to slip and play with the clutch a lot because of this problem or the car jerks violently at low-rpms.
The jerks are really intense especially for the co-passengers since they are unaware of it. Gets me furious when stuck in stop&go traffic .
I'm gonna think of remapping the ECU if it doesnt pinch my pocket much.
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Old 9th July 2009, 18:06   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunilb View Post
They too had faced similar problems in their OHCs. Need to know from them how they got rid of it or its still there.
Nope, my Vtec is an '03 and thus come with the upgraded ECU. It's only the pre-September 2002 cars that jerked at low rpms. IIRC, Ajmat & Shantanu had posted of how high octane fuel eliminated the jerks.
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Old 9th July 2009, 18:08   #160
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Sunil, the stock ECU cannot be remapped AFAIK since it's only available in South Asian markets like India, Pakistan, Thailand, etc. Hence me buying a JDM ECU and remapping that. The cost should be around 12k for a P28/P30 socketed ECU and another 10k or so for the ROM burner. But once I have the burner, you can just get a socketed ECU and I can burn the map on a chip for you. Let's see how it goes, was just recommended against a remap since I don't know **** about remapping. But I don't mind putting months of reading time and energy into this and learn it from scratch, so it should be fun tuning an ECU with a wideband sensor and helpful folks. And since I'll keep my stock ECU with me, I will not be stuck with a useless car until the map is tuned properly.

@GTO: IIRC, high octane fuel only reduces the jerks to a large extent, doesn't eliminate them completely. You'd still need a neutral person to verify the elimination of jerks completely.

Last edited by pranavt : 9th July 2009 at 18:13.
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Old 11th July 2009, 13:47   #161
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Thanx for the gyan Pranav.Had to go through it twice to get it in my head.. since I really dont go well with these electronic stuffs. Need to do a lot of homework before I think of alterations on the ECU.
First thing on my agenda is to get the suspensions done when I come back to mumbai next weekend. Will PM you for your contact.
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Old 11th July 2009, 14:23   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
Sunil, the stock ECU cannot be remapped AFAIK since it's only available in South Asian markets like India, Pakistan, Thailand, etc. Hence me buying a JDM ECU and remapping that. The cost should be around 12k for a P28/P30 socketed ECU and another 10k or so for the ROM burner. But once I have the burner, you can just get a socketed ECU and I can burn the map on a chip for you.

Let's see how it goes, was just recommended against a remap since I don't know **** about remapping. But I don't mind putting months of reading time and energy into this and learn it from scratch, so it should be fun tuning an ECU with a wideband sensor and helpful folks. And since I'll keep my stock ECU with me, I will not be stuck with a useless car until the map is tuned properly.
Don't think all this is needed unless you are planning to go extreme NA or with forced induction. Some increased base timing, a little more fuel pressure should do the trick to optimise your current setup (ffe/cai). ROM burner is a dead investment. If you are so serious about getting a chipped ECU, get a standalone which offers much more functionality at any level and is infinitely compatible with any level of mods you wish to do even in near future.

Its a good thing wanting to learn, but your current approach will have you frustrated in no time. If you REALLY want to learn, get a standalone and the supplied software and you're ready to tune. The stock ECU will always be there as a fail-safe and will be capable of running your car even if it is turbocharged (staying off-boost obviously) in case something gets screwed up.
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Old 11th July 2009, 19:24   #163
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Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
Don't think all this is needed unless you are planning to go extreme NA or with forced induction. Some increased base timing, a little more fuel pressure should do the trick to optimise your current setup (ffe/cai). ROM burner is a dead investment. If you are so serious about getting a chipped ECU, get a standalone which offers much more functionality at any level and is infinitely compatible with any level of mods you wish to do even in near future.

Its a good thing wanting to learn, but your current approach will have you frustrated in no time. If you REALLY want to learn, get a standalone and the supplied software and you're ready to tune. The stock ECU will always be there as a fail-safe and will be capable of running your car even if it is turbocharged (staying off-boost obviously) in case something gets screwed up.
I do not have the budget for a standalone right now. As it stands, I can have a chipped ECU for a lot less than half the amount of a standalone. And from the little amount of stuff I've read and apps I've checked out, the OEM ECUs (P28/P30) can handle FI with additional boost maps (Please correct me if I'm misinformed) and a lot more. I do know that it will never give me the flexibility of a standalone, but if I do get frustrated, I can always get a used Hondata in the future. It is out of my budget to buy a stand-alone, then pay someone to tune the car for me after every modification. I do not know about the policies of Indian/Asian standalone ECU tuners/installers, but if I don't get the tuning software for myself, it can start getting prohibitively expensive very soon.

I already have an FFE and planning to get a CAI very soon. That, plus an enlarged throttle body, and a bit in the future, an aftermarket intake manifold + a port+polish job. The D15B engine can take a D16's cams which I'm also interested in. I do not wish to go down the FI route.

And anyways, the ECU can be re-used if/when I go for an engine swap. Since you say that the ROM burner is a dead investment, I can go with an Ostrich2 ROM emulator until I'm happy with a map, and get that burnt on an SST from someone else. Costs about the same too, plus a better chance of selling the ROM-E once I'm done.
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Old 12th July 2009, 05:47   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post

I do not have the budget for a standalone right now. As it stands, I can have a chipped ECU for a lot less than half the amount of a standalone.

And from the little amount of stuff I've read and apps I've checked out, the OEM ECUs (P28/P30) can handle FI with additional boost maps (Please correct me if I'm misinformed) and a lot more.
A used, working P28/30 will cost should normally cost in the region of US$120 and this means you'll be converting your current OBD2B setup to a OBD1- meaning you'll need a OBDII to OBD1 conversion harness which will cost you ~US$30.

A ROM emulator will cost you in the region of US$250. Which brings the grand total to about US$400+.

Next, you plan to use Crome, Neptune or Uberdata. These systems are the best thing that has happened lately in the Honda scene, allowing bang-for-the-buck (actually no bucks since they're free) tuning solutions. If you are adding boost (but you mentioned you aren't), an aftermarket MAP sensor will be needed. I agree, not many things can go wrong with a moderate NA setup, a little bit of common sense should be able to keep your motor out of harm's way.

Next thing you need will be a Wideband O2 sensor+readout. The AEM UEGO is one of the best VFM systems, will cost ~US$200 even though most tuners only trust top of the line stuff from likes of Innovate. For non-critical DIY stuff though, the UEGO should suffice. Not sure if you'll be investing in this, but if you are- this is the way to go.

So now we're at around ~US$600 even before you can start tuning. And the cost of burning the ROM hasn't been included yet. Translates to ~INR 30k assuming all this is being hand carried and no duties are being paid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pranavt View Post

I do know that it will never give me the flexibility of a standalone, but if I do get frustrated, I can always get a used Hondata in the future. It is out of my budget to buy a stand-alone, then pay someone to tune the car for me after every modification. I do not know about the policies of Indian/Asian standalone ECU tuners/installers, but if I don't get the tuning software for myself, it can start getting prohibitively expensive very soon.
I don't know how much it'll cost to get a used Hondata and how easy its gonna be but I'm sure it won't come for dirt-cheap especially for a d-series motor since its not as common an application as for like say B16s.

On the face of it, tuning seems really simple- its not until you sit with that fuelling/ignition map in front of you that the complexity of it hits you. In other words, its an art- just like any other creative activity. Try playing around with a dummy map and talk to ECU tuners and you can start picking up the basics. After that, try getting some hands on experience on a mildly modded car with a aftermarket ECU.

You should be able to get the software for yourself if you're paying for the ECU install and persist for it. The reason the software isn't handed out freely is the fact that any joe-average can start fooling around with the maps and blow his motor in the process, and later blame the EMS for the same.

P.S. Guess we're going slightly OT with this discussion.

Last edited by doomsday : 12th July 2009 at 05:48.
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Old 12th July 2009, 11:29   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
A used, working P28/30 will cost should normally cost in the region of US$120 and this means you'll be converting your current OBD2B setup to a OBD1- meaning you'll need a OBDII to OBD1 conversion harness which will cost you ~US$30.

A ROM emulator will cost you in the region of US$250. Which brings the grand total to about US$400+.

Next, you plan to use Crome, Neptune or Uberdata. These systems are the best thing that has happened lately in the Honda scene, allowing bang-for-the-buck (actually no bucks since they're free) tuning solutions. If you are adding boost (but you mentioned you aren't), an aftermarket MAP sensor will be needed. I agree, not many things can go wrong with a moderate NA setup, a little bit of common sense should be able to keep your motor out of harm's way.

Next thing you need will be a Wideband O2 sensor+readout. The AEM UEGO is one of the best VFM systems, will cost ~US$200 even though most tuners only trust top of the line stuff from likes of Innovate. For non-critical DIY stuff though, the UEGO should suffice. Not sure if you'll be investing in this, but if you are- this is the way to go.

So now we're at around ~US$600 even before you can start tuning. And the cost of burning the ROM hasn't been included yet. Translates to ~INR 30k assuming all this is being hand carried and no duties are being paid.



I don't know how much it'll cost to get a used Hondata and how easy its gonna be but I'm sure it won't come for dirt-cheap especially for a d-series motor since its not as common an application as for like say B16s.

On the face of it, tuning seems really simple- its not until you sit with that fuelling/ignition map in front of you that the complexity of it hits you. In other words, its an art- just like any other creative activity. Try playing around with a dummy map and talk to ECU tuners and you can start picking up the basics. After that, try getting some hands on experience on a mildly modded car with a aftermarket ECU.

You should be able to get the software for yourself if you're paying for the ECU install and persist for it. The reason the software isn't handed out freely is the fact that any joe-average can start fooling around with the maps and blow his motor in the process, and later blame the EMS for the same.

P.S. Guess we're going slightly OT with this discussion.
Xenrocron Tuning: DIYer Intro Tuning Package (Moates Ostrich Eprom Emulator, USB Datalogging Kit, Innovate LC-1 Wideband Kit) #DIY-Intro-Pk
Ostrich + Datalogging + Innovate Wideband for US$ 369
A chipping kit goes for around 15 USD. This includes a blank SST, a 24pin ZIF socket and other components required to chip an ECU
By your own post, an P28/P30 goes for around US$120 though higher prices can be possible. Add a conversion harness for $30.

Totals to around US$530, plus shipping and duties (if any ). Or around 26-28k INR. My price equation is incorrect I guess, but the only standalone available for anywhere near this range is the RD. If this includes installation/labour, basemap and a final tune, all good. If it doesn't, I shell out more money. With my kit, I can be sure that this is the maximum amount I'm going to spend on the ECU, plus I get features like Launch Control which isn't available on the base RD standalone AFAIK. The wideband can be sold for a good amount once I'm done, cutting the net expense to quite a bit less.

On the positive side, I get to learn how to tune an ECU. Will keep me busy and occupied for a couple of months atleast. And I always prefer the DIY route. For the money I shell out, plus a few more, I can drop off the car, pay the money and pick it up in a week with everything done. Or I can mess with the stuff myself, get my hands dirty and learn a thing or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday
P.S. Guess we're going slightly OT with this discussion.
Yeah, sorry for that . I'll request the mods to clean the thread or split the posts into another thread.

Last edited by pranavt : 12th July 2009 at 11:32.
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