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Old 23rd August 2007, 13:27   #1
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Default Adventure Mileage and Pickup problems

Guys,
These day we are facing strange problems with Adventure 1.6 Petrol. Last month we had very nice long trip (Hyderabad to Tirupati) with the beast and enjoyed a lot. The drive was quite passionate and we really enjoyed driving the car. The mileage also was good, giving more than 14 KMPL with 100% AC on. This issue started after returning to city traffic. We found that Mileage dropped to 6.5 KMPL within the city, which used to be around 11 KMPL. The pickup drop has also been observed in first and second gears. Car can not climb even slighest of up without foot on the accelerator.

Thought of showing the problem to Anuroop Auto Hyderabad and was there last weekend. First the guy did not seem to convince that the car was giving 11 in the city he claims it should be between 8 and 9. I made him understand that the area we live in and our daily office route is more like Highway, so 11 was convincing figure. He agreed upon then and taken the car for check up. Car was diagnosed with Fuel Adulteration and Fuel and Air Filter were replaced. Apart from this, he reset ECU. And told us that he has done his part and there is nothing else to do and claimed that mileage would definitely be improved.

After a week of travel and two tank refills (of course from half line mark), we realised that neither mileage improved nor pickup. I observed that car stutters on IDLE RPMs. Next day, after cranking the engine I observed that Idling RPM is near 550. The actual value should be some where near 950 RPM.

Please throw some light on:
Is this (Low Idling RPM) the reason for low mileage and pickup? What could be reason for the Idling RPM setting got changed? Is this some thing to do with ECU resetting?

I Forgot to mention: Car just run 7K Kms only.

Car came back from service station, but problem persists. Other observations:


Adventure:

The behavior is that on cold starts RPM shoots up to 1200 RPM and very slowly comes down to 600 RPM and stays there. I switched off the engine then and waited for a couple of minutes. This time RPM shoots up to nearly 1000 RPM and drops down drastically to 600 RPM and stays there.

Palio:
The behavior is that on cold starts RPM shoots up to 1500 comes down to 1200 RPM immediately and from there it very slowly comes down to 950 RPM and stays there. I switched off the engine then and waited for a couple of minutes. This time RPM shoots up to nearly 1200 RPM and drops down gradually to 950 RPM and stays there. I think this is normal behavior.

More Observations:
1. Car was at idle position. I moved the gear lever to first position, released hand break and release the clutch very slowly. After a certain position of the clutch, I observed the RPM is going down from 600 to 200 before the car moves forward. This is not the case with my Palio.

2. Accelerate the car to reach 2000 RPM in 4th gear and remove the foot on the accelerator. RPM is coming down rapidly to idling RPM position. This behavior can be normal in 1st and 2nd gears and the same can not be the case 4th gear.

Throttle Body Replaced, Problem persists. Other observations:

In Second gear at idling RPM it does not have smooth running what it used to have. It runs as if some thing is obstructing to it. But it runs fine in 3rd and 4th gears. The speed at run at second gear is about 12KMPH, where as my Palio runs around 20KMPH. What are the speeds on idling RPM with each gear?

Refered to Solar Autoshop, Hyderabad:

Last saturday, I visited Solar Auto shop instead of TATA service stations as they do not have any clue why the car is behaving like this. The mechanic mentioning that "a lock (closed brace model) at accelerator in the engine bay is missing." That guy has taken door pin lock and tried to lock at the cable. With this, the idling RPM is erratic and no constant value. the Idling RPM is varying from 500 - 1200. At Idling, if we pull accelerator in reverse direction RPM goes down to 500 and stays there.

Other observations are that, if we pedal the accelerator in the neutral RPM shoots up as fast as the force but does not come down immediately. It stays at max position for a while and comes down lil slowly. However, if pull accelerator in reverse direction it comes down rapidly, which is normal behaviour.

Some times, RPM meter shows 0 in second gear but the vehicle moves normally without applying accelerator
.

The suspecting issues might be with:

1. Idling Speed screw
2. Air temp sensor
3. Injectors
4. ECU

It has been 3 months that we are roaming around service centers with no success. I am very saddened to see the state of my car.
Please suggest me on this.

--BSR

PS: Sorry to have the long post.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 13:56   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
2. Accelerate the car to reach 2000 RPM in 4th gear and remove the foot on the accelerator. RPM is coming down rapidly to idling RPM position.
When you are in gear, drop in RPM should be proportional to speed. In 4th, it should come to idling only at speeds~20kph.

I think your clutch is the culprit. It seems to be slipping off. But why so soon?
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Old 23rd August 2007, 14:56   #3
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This may sound very obvious, but did you get your clutch assembly (clutch plates, master clutch cylinder etc) checked? If not, please do that. )There is no reason why clutch plates should wear off so soon though).
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Old 23rd August 2007, 16:13   #4
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The problem seems got solved to an extent after changing throttle body. In any case I will ask my mechanic to have verification of the same. Here is the current problem:

Last saturday, I visited Solar Auto shop instead of TATA service stations as they do not have any clue why the car is behaving like this. The mechanic mentioning that "a lock (closed brace model) at accelerator in the engine bay is missing." That guy has taken door pin lock and tried to lock at the cable. With this, the idling RPM is erratic and no constant value. the Idling RPM is varying from 500 - 1200. At Idling, if we pull accelerator in reverse direction RPM goes down to 500 and stays there.

Other observations are that, if we pedal the accelerator in the neutral RPM shoots up as fast as the force but does not come down immediately. It stays at max position for a while and comes down lil slowly. However, if pull accelerator in reverse direction it comes down rapidly, which is normal behaviour.

Some times, RPM meter shows 0 in second gear but the vehicle moves normally without applying accelerator .


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Old 24th August 2007, 00:08   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
1. Car was at idle position. I moved the gear lever to first position, released hand break and release the clutch very slowly. After a certain position of the clutch, I observed the RPM is going down from 600 to 200 before the car moves forward. This is not the case with my Palio.
I have seen that in BS III cars the rpm drops very low compared to the BS II cars. I am not aware of the reason for this and had asked a Maruti Service manager regardin this. He had explained to me saying something about engne loading etc but I did not understand a bit of what he said.
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Old 24th August 2007, 14:56   #6
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Even my palio does not have this problem. However this is not a major problem. The problem is that the car behaving powerless in stop gap traffic where you can not use accelerator for moving and use idling speeds in the first and second gears. This impacted in mileage due to frequent accelerations and breaks. Car does very good if use accelerator.

As I mentioned earlier car is moving at 12 KMPH of second gear at idling RPM, which supposed to be around 20. The primary reason for this is that Idling RPM stays at 500 instead in the range of 800 - 1100.
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Old 27th August 2007, 21:37   #7
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so is it actually solved or is it just that the car can run for the time being even with the rpm issue?

Feels really bad to have such problems where nobody seems to know what to do!!
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Old 27th August 2007, 22:26   #8
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Get your throttle body "sensors" inspected thoroughly, then hook up the ecu to a scanner and check if all is well.

In a fuel injected engine scanner is an absolute must to isolate a problem, there are loads of Fiat owners out here from Hyderabad, get in touch with them for a reliable garage.
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Old 28th August 2007, 14:58   #9
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The throttle body has been changed recently. The problem is still there. The problem is supposed to be with the Cluster meter. The Autofin guys promised to change the part by 5th next month.

We can run the car with the issue. However it is pain to see the beast is behaving like snail
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Old 28th August 2007, 21:10   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
Guys,
This issue started after returning to city traffic. We found that Mileage dropped to 6.5 KMPL within the city, which used to be around 11 KMPL. The pickup drop has also been observed in first and second gears. Car can not climb even slighest of up without foot on the accelerator.
does the car feel responsive when engine is cold ?
sometimes if the valve clearances is out of spec then the car behaves in sucjh a way, it will start losng power the minte it gets hot, the mileage goes down and even small throttle inputs will make the car knock..
the service schedule may say inspection after x miles but its always not that way, it depends how u drive it @ what load.
so I m suggesting get the valve clearances checked by some other "factory dealer" who has he proper calbrated tools to do this.. dont go to some road side guy for this..

Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
After a week of travel and two tank refills (of course from half line mark), we realised that neither mileage improved nor pickup. I observed that car stutters on IDLE RPMs. Next day, after cranking the engine I observed that Idling RPM is near 550. The actual value should be some where near 950 RPM.
1st get the idle set correctly to 950, get the timing set right , u can go to some other garage who has a proper timing gun and will allow u to have a look at what he is doing.. stand on his head and get it done perfect as per the factory manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
Please throw some light on:
Is this (Low Idling RPM) the reason for low mileage and pickup? What could be reason for the Idling RPM setting got changed? Is this some thing to do with ECU resetting?
foreget the ECU for some time, lets see 1st if the whole engine tune is within spec or not,then we will see the ECU
I suspect it may not be low idling(incorrect timing) + incorrect valve clearance...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
I Forgot to mention: Car just run 7K Kms only.
valve clearance + idle problems is too early for such a young engine...
but hey we are having problems and who knows what servicing the dealer did when u took for initial free service etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
Car came back from service station, but problem persists. Other observations:

Adventure:

The behavior is that on cold starts RPM shoots up to 1200 RPM and very slowly comes down to 600 RPM and stays there. I switched off the engine then and waited for a couple of minutes. This time RPM shoots up to nearly 1000 RPM and drops down drastically to 600 RPM and stays there.

Palio:
The behavior is that on cold starts RPM shoots up to 1500 comes down to 1200 RPM immediately and from there it very slowly comes down to 950 RPM and stays there. I switched off the engine then and waited for a couple of minutes. This time RPM shoots up to nearly 1200 RPM and drops down gradually to 950 RPM and stays there. I think this is normal behavior.
it is perfectly ok for the car if it revs high when cold, revs dro as the sensor warms up. the idle drops slowy to normal.
Also it is ok for the rpm to drop more when u shift to a gear from neutral while car is stationary in the morning.
but it should not idle +/- the factory spec if the car is stock, idle without AC is lower as compared to idle with AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
More Observations:
1. Car was at idle position. I moved the gear lever to first position, released hand break and release the clutch very slowly. After a certain position of the clutch, I observed the RPM is going down from 600 to 200 before the car moves forward. This is not the case with my Palio.

2. Accelerate the car to reach 2000 RPM in 4th gear and remove the foot on the accelerator. RPM is coming down rapidly to idling RPM position. This behavior can be normal in 1st and 2nd gears and the same can not be the case 4th gear.
while travelling in 4th gear if u move ur foot of the accelarator i.e Throtle position = zero, the engine stops breathing via the primary air circuit, the fuel also gets cut off, it start breathng via secondary air circuit, the Idel air control valve kicks in provides just sufficent air to keep the engine from stalling... so at this stage u will see a lower idle . somethin what u would see when u were idling in neutral while stationary....
let me know if this is the same behaviour u are seeing ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
Throttle Body Replaced, Problem persists. Other observations:
In Second gear at idling RPM it does not have smooth running what it used to have. It runs as if some thing is obstructing to it. But it runs fine in 3rd and 4th gears. The speed at run at second gear is about 12KMPH, where as my Palio runs around 20KMPH. What are the speeds on idling RPM with each gear?

Refered to Solar Autoshop, Hyderabad:

Last saturday, I visited Solar Auto shop instead of TATA service stations as they do not have any clue why the car is behaving like this. The mechanic mentioning that "a lock (closed brace model) at accelerator in the engine bay is missing." That guy has taken door pin lock and tried to lock at the cable. With this, the idling RPM is erratic and no constant value. the Idling RPM is varying from 500 - 1200. At Idling, if we pull accelerator in reverse direction RPM goes down to 500 and stays there.

Other observations are that, if we pedal the accelerator in the neutral RPM shoots up as fast as the force but does not come down immediately. It stays at max position for a while and comes down lil slowly. However, if pull accelerator in reverse direction it comes down rapidly, which is normal behaviour.

Some times, RPM meter shows 0 in second gear but the vehicle moves normally without applying accelerator .
Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
The suspecting issues might be with:

1. Idling Speed screw
2. Air temp sensor
3. Injectors
4. ECU
wait lets take one at a time..
lets get idle+valve clearance checked.
for 1, 2 and 3 we will need some ECU diagnostic readout...I would like to see ur fuel trim readouts before considering issue with 1,2 and 3 or even 4


Quote:
Originally Posted by rao_battula View Post
It has been 3 months that we are roaming around service centers with no success. I am very saddened to see the state of my car.
Please suggest me on this.
--BSR
PS: Sorry to have the long post.
dont worry dude, we understand exactly how u feel...we also have been thru hell with our cars.. there is nothing more frustrating than having ur car behave like this and the stupid dealers giving u ****ty reasons...

its not a long post , anyway we like long posts

Last edited by chetanhanda : 28th August 2007 at 21:24.
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Old 9th May 2009, 11:38   #11
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What happened. Has it been solved?
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Old 9th May 2009, 13:59   #12
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gemithomas, a friend of mine is looking forward to buying a used fusion or adventure. Since you have owned both, which one would you recommend in terms of ease of maintenance and overall reliability? Out of these 2 cars, which car has had lesser issues/problems?
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Old 9th May 2009, 14:47   #13
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@rao battula, please do let me know what happened with your mileage problem. My Palio 1.6 too has developed this kind of mileage issues, I am getting around 6 kmpl in the city even when I drive at my smoothest best. There is no issues at all during highway runs, I have seen 14-15 kmpl regularly. However, there is no idling issues at all, sometimes I do feel 2nd gear is not pulling as it should, not very sure though, it may even be my perception. The car is 2004 model but has run close to 17,000 kms only.

Another ploblem I face with this car is once in every 3 or 4 weeks, the battery goes completely dead. Got this checked whereever I could, battery seems to be fine, electricals were said to be fine by Concorde motors, I suspect a leak somewhere though. Can anyone from Bangalore please suggest where I can get the electricals of this Fiat checked, unlike other cars they seem to be unusually complex.

Last edited by grvanand : 9th May 2009 at 14:50.
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Old 9th May 2009, 19:23   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
gemithomas, a friend of mine is looking forward to buying a used fusion or adventure. Since you have owned both, which one would you recommend in terms of ease of maintenance and overall reliability? Out of these 2 cars, which car has had lesser issues/problems?
Ease of maintaience would depend on the service centre near you. Both are not that great.

Lesser problems. Of course the Fusion.
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Old 10th May 2009, 20:13   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grvanand View Post
@rao battula, please do let me know what happened with your mileage problem. My Palio 1.6 too has developed this kind of mileage issues, I am getting around 6 kmpl in the city even when I drive at my smoothest best. There is no issues at all during highway runs, I have seen 14-15 kmpl regularly. However, there is no idling issues at all, sometimes I do feel 2nd gear is not pulling as it should, not very sure though, it may even be my perception. The car is 2004 model but has run close to 17,000 kms only.

Another ploblem I face with this car is once in every 3 or 4 weeks, the battery goes completely dead. Got this checked whereever I could, battery seems to be fine, electricals were said to be fine by Concorde motors, I suspect a leak somewhere though. Can anyone from Bangalore please suggest where I can get the electricals of this Fiat checked, unlike other cars they seem to be unusually complex.
Guys, I know the thread is on Adventure but the problems I am facing is pretty similar. I would greatly appreciate and be thankful if some of you can pour in your thoughts on the issues I am facing.
Thanks in advance.
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