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Old 6th September 2007, 22:33   #31
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Hellspawn.
I think your friend should feel lucky to have survived the accident.
There's no point in questioning Honda for this me thinks

Last edited by kpzen : 6th September 2007 at 22:46.
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Old 6th September 2007, 22:34   #32
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If given a choice between Smashing your head on the windscreen / smashing your chest on the steering wheel
AND
Small burns

I think the logical side of me is forcing me to choose small burns
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Old 6th September 2007, 22:42   #33
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This is ridiculous. Firstly its a case of drunk driving on the part of your friend, which in any other part of the world would mean he loses his license.

On top of this, he asks if HONDA is responsible for this? Honestly, give me a break. The airbag did its job, and did it well.There's no one but your friend to blame. That's it.
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Old 6th September 2007, 23:59   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyamhegde View Post
dadu's post explained the airbag systems nicely, thanks for the education. Now I know why they cost so much!




I read on the user manual of my brother in law's Swift that the airbags won't function if seat belt is not worn. Is it the case in all the vehcles equipped with airbags?
I don't have the rerocrds, but logically, all of them shud have this mechanism.

else the occupant will hit the bag first and then the bag will explode into his face. causing more harm than protection.
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Old 7th September 2007, 00:34   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mail4ajo View Post
In this case, it saved the driver, but caused burns. I dont think we should say that the burns are justified since the driver was drunk. What would have you said if the driver wasnt drunk?
I will suggest a small experiemnt.
Stretch your left hand in front of you and extend it as best as you can. Now take the finest silk cloth you can find at your home and hang it on your hand like it is a towel hanger. Now use your right hand to pull the cloth away as fast as you can. What would you experience? A severe burning sensation. Now imagine an air bag going off at 50 - 60 mph and expanding rapidly at the same time and add some talcum powder like stuff to boot, you are bound to get burns.

Folks, it is a known fact that Airbags do cause burns when they are deployed and this only happens when your hands are on the steering wheel. Airbags use a kind of powder to keep the folded bag from sticking. This powder plus the rapid speed at which airbags deploy causes the burns. I am not sure if they cause second degree burns or not, may be its the alcohol.

Last edited by Mayavi : 7th September 2007 at 00:38.
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Old 7th September 2007, 00:42   #36
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I had an airbag incident long back, I had my hands on the steering till the last moment, I did not suffer burns on my hand.

What caused the burn?

Was it a cause of the bag bursting after inflation? In that case Honda is responsible.

Last edited by 1100D : 7th September 2007 at 00:44.
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Old 7th September 2007, 00:55   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
There was also a huge cost to replace the bags and the associated mechanisms after that. .
I have heard this a lot of times before but would like to know more on the facts behind it. I understand that there are a lot of things that come into play for an airbag to get deployed. However, what are the major facts that contribute to the exorbitant cost of replacing one ? Can the experts throw more light on this one ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyamhegde View Post
I read on the user manual of my brother in law's Swift that the airbags won't function if seat belt is not worn. Is it the case in all the vehcles equipped with airbags?
Airbags are only supplementary restraint systems (SRS) that provide safety in addition to seat belts. My Civic manual reiterates that saying that airbags can serve their purpose only if seat belts are worn in the first place.

Last edited by Rehaan : 7th September 2007 at 05:52.
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:19   #38
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ok,i think you guys misunderstood.
when airbags deply,a mixture explodes and inflates the airbag.
what im talking about is that after deployment,the airbag should cushion your face.
in m y friends case,after inflating completely,it burst rather than providing cushioning and then slowly deflating.
so the events occurred in this order.
johnnie walker->accident->airbags burst open and deploy->then they burst(like a balloon)->2nd degree burns.

and his entire hands are burnt,with blisters.
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:24   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Was it a cause of the bag bursting after inflation? In that case Honda is responsible.
yes thats what happened.you got the bull by its horn.
had a chat with my friend,he said that what honda is saying is "we dont know the extent of the crash,we don't know whether the driver was wearing seatbelts,we don't know where his hands were resting.they could have probably been on the horn pad.we don't know whether the drivers seat was in the proper inclination angle(apparently,if you recline your seat too much,it nullifies the protection from an airbag)"
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:26   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akash_m View Post
...curious to know what happens to the Airbags once they inflate? I mean does the car need to go to workshop to get them working again. Also, I suppose considerable amount of facia/ part of steerring wheel is damaged once the airbags are deployed.

If so, what is the cost involved..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rr_zen View Post
...would like to know more on the facts behind it. I understand that there are a lot of things that come into play for an airbag to get deployed. However, what are the major facts that contribute to the exorbitant cost of replacing one ? Can the experts throw more light on this one ?
With regard to damage:
@akash_m, you are right. Some amount of fascia/ part of steering wheel is destroyed once the airbags are deployed.

While designing an airbag system the designers, design to minimize injury to the humans in the car, due to violent encounters with mangled pieces of fascia and steering wheel.

Protecting damage to the fascia and steering wheel from the exploding airbag is not a design consideration.

Needless to say, the entire airbag unit and polyurethane steering wheel cover and dashboard cover must be replaced.

With regard to costs:
The airbag in the steering wheel, like that on the dash, is fired by an explosive squib (like a Diwali firecracker) ignited by electronics.

substantial R&D expenditure on engineering and testing go into designing:

1. the car-model-specific 3D safety geometry
2. its embedded computing control system

Nevertheless, costs would depend on manufacturer perception of the brand. The cost of plastic and cost of manufacturing have little to do with street price.

Airbags cost about Rs. 20,000 +taxes and levies per vehicle.
Manufacturers typically buy from the supplier for less than Rs. 4,000.

Are there aftermarket airbag systems?
The airbag system is an integral part of the vehicle design.
So it is, in general, not possible to retrofit airbags to a vehicle not designed for them.

But there was one exception. In the early 1990s there was an aftermarket driver side system, the Breed SRS-40. It was designed specifically only for 7 top-selling (in the US market) vehicles of that time.

It was a non-electronic system. At a pre-set deceleration threshold for a specific amount of time, the sensor mechanically released two firing pins, initiating the deployment. The sensors had to be calibrated from vehicle to vehicle to allow for differences in structural design.

The Breed kit came with a new steering wheel.

How long do airbag systems last?
By Volkswagen's (and some other mfr's) design specs,
undeployed airbags must be inspected after 10 years and replaced after 14 years to ensure their reliability in an accident.

Accidental deployment while servicing could result in severe head injury and an improperly installed or defective airbag unit can kill.

Of course replacing the airbags would cost far more than a 14-year old car's market value, but the laws leave no choice.

Law in the USA
USA law requires all cars and light trucks after 1997 to have dual air bags.

If airbags in any vehicle deploy in error or in genuine circumstances, US law requires the registered vehicle owner to repurchase them, before the vehicle can be driven again.

There have been cases of small children killed by airbags.

US Government's Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 208 (FMVSS 208)
requires that 100% of all passenger vehicles sold in the USA after 2005 be capable of distinguishing if a small child is in the front passenger seat so that the air bag deployment can be disabled to protect the child.

What is it to us?
Our intrepid IT industry practitioners apart, the USA is not so distant anymore.

Indian auto manufacturers are studying all kinds of USA compliance requirements, as they do have intentions to attack the US market.

Eventually but unavoidably, this can only improve the cars we get to buy!

Ram
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:35   #41
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with so many breakthrough's in technology,the airbag deployment system really hasn't progressed too much.
can it not be made better??
Because in this case,the speed at which he hit the pole wasn't high enough to cause any injuries.the crumple zones absorbed sufficient energy to prevent anything happening to the passenger compartment.
was the airbag really needed at that speed???he was driving at around 60kmph.
just thoughts!!!
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:45   #42
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Check out News in Science - Exploding airbags can burn skin - 28/11/2005

An airbag typically works when a sensor detects rapid deceleration. This triggers a highly exothermic reaction, which produces a large volume of hot gas to inflate the airbag.

This all happens within 100 milliseconds of the time of impact, with temperatures within the airbag reaching as high as 500C.

The airbag then deflates over a period of about a second, releasing hot gas into the car via vents, which US researchers say can cause burns to the driver or passenger in 1.5% of cases.
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Old 7th September 2007, 08:52   #43
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Hey hellspawn, if your friend is pissed off with airbags then why did he go for CRV? It has airbags too. He should try NHC, which doesn't have airbags .
IMHO, Civic's airbags have been his best friends & life saver. If he had not worn seat belts, even at that speed, he would have banged his head to wind-shield and would have in hospital (in-patient). Since he had worn seat belts, he is just an out-patient. Airbags saved his bones.

I knew drunk had a problem with electric pole while walking. But even on car? I am like .
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellspawn View Post
its been one month now,he has sold the civic and bought a new crv.
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Old 7th September 2007, 09:20   #44
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I think we are all missing the point of HS's post. I'm sure he is not defending the fact that his friend made the big mistake of driving drunk and that the airbags did save his friend from more serious injuries, but he is trying to find out that if the airbag did burst after saving his drunk friend; was the system supposed to do that?

That is, are airbags, after deployment supposed to burst or deflate? if airbags are supposed to deflate and this one burst then it suggest a problem with the material.

But the counter argument is that if, the drunk friend was smoking, the cigarette could have burst the airbag! that it is not the manufacturer's fault.

Moral of the story: Don't drink and drive. If you do drink and drive and have an accident and come out safe and then complain to the manufacturer for something that saved your life....then never post it on TBHP as we all will be after your life for driving drunk in the first place!!!

Last edited by DriverR : 7th September 2007 at 09:28.
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Old 7th September 2007, 09:34   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rr_zen
Airbags are only Supplementary Restraint Systems (SRS) that provide safety in addition to seat belts.
Is this what the 'SRS' in the "SRS airbags" inscribed on the steering wheel (for cars that have airbags) stands for ?

All this while I was thinking that SRS is the name of the company that made airbag systems. I used to wonder why there is only one company making airbags.
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