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Old 7th September 2007, 18:01   #16
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Best wishes mcl, for your project. I hope this threads accumulates as much info as possible. For us illiterate souls.

@Ford Rocam, I would request you to please share your knowledge also for other's benefit. Although there is no match to practical/hands-on knowledge, theoretical knowledge is also important and particularly helpful in putting things into perspective.

How about choosing a good standalone ECU (with a good software)? Or have you already done that? IMO, getting a standalone should be the first step in any serious mod job.
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Old 7th September 2007, 18:19   #17
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Originally Posted by spadival View Post
A couple of years back, there was a TC Baleno used as a demo car during the Koni suspension demo organised by the Methods guys at MMSC. Not sure who the owners are though.. probably belongs to Methods or one of their distributor/dealers.
The Baleno is the same one talked about by Desert fox. Like I mentioned earlier that car belongs to a rally driver. However, now the turbo kit has come off the car and was sold to another Baleno owner (not me).

Vabs78, I am looking at running RdKarthik's stand alone since their group seems to be the only one which has done in depth research in setting up of standalones in the country. Will have to discuss this further with the man himself before coming to a final call on it. I know Leela works on ECU's too but not sure if he is available to the general public.
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Old 9th September 2007, 15:58   #18
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Rahul, most of the parameters you mention are used at design stages. Even if you DO get the values, you cannot actually verify or enforce them since we do not have sufficient test equipment.

Here are the basic stuff. Keep these in mind first.

1) Get as many gauges as possible. A wideband O2 sensor is a must. So are boost, I/T temp, block temp, etc.

2) Look at realistic figures. Running 18 Psi requires a lot of work. Do not forget that forged pistons have slap, and the cylinder pressure is not handled by pistons alone. Anything above a bar, or 14.503 PSi of boost, & you would need a blueprinted/selved block with moly internals to handle that pressure reliably. We're talking cylinder pressures of over 230-240 Psi..
1. Beg to disagree. Have seen narrowband O2s work fine upto 1 bar on the turbo.

2. Are you sure? The Baleno by Leela ran 1 bar easily with stock internals. I understand you will need deep-dish forged pistons to handle 20 pounds, but I would guess the stock liners would do.

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I know Leela works on ECU's too but not sure if he is available to the general public.
Only Links, I am told. Expensive, those things.
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Old 9th September 2007, 17:00   #19
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Spend around 2 lakhs and get a pucca, professional install.
If U go for a cheap build, it won't be reliable.
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Old 9th September 2007, 17:16   #20
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G16B stock internals have been proved to handle 12psi easily from some of the projects carried out abroad. I would more than happy if better internals would handle even 1 bar. Besides, the car won't run over 8psi for daily use except for those 15 or so days in a year.

Nitrous anna, more money spent doesn't necessarily translate to better reliability all the time. What matters is choosing the right equipment & installing them in the right way.

Btw, where are all the gurus?
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Old 9th September 2007, 18:13   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
1. Beg to disagree. Have seen narrowband O2s work fine upto 1 bar on the turbo.

2. Are you sure? The Baleno by Leela ran 1 bar easily with stock internals. I understand you will need deep-dish forged pistons to handle 20 pounds, but I would guess the stock liners would do.
1) Narrowband AFR's would work fine no matter what. You need a wideband for precise metering, that's all. Obviously, stoichmetric ratio at 1 bar cannot be precisely gauged by narrowbands. It's just that a wideband helps you be at sync with the tuning.

2) You could even run 20 Psi with stock internals; but things would start blowing up sooner rather than later... factory spec Impreza's & EVO's run with 17-20 Psi, but their engines are built to handle that pressure. Cast iron blocks with about 1.5 inches of spacing between the liners. It's not just the pistons, Akshay...reliable builds require a lot of bheja-fodi in terms of engineering & costs.
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Old 9th September 2007, 19:04   #22
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Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
1) Narrowband AFR's would work fine no matter what. You need a wideband for precise metering, that's all. Obviously, stoichmetric ratio at 1 bar cannot be precisely gauged by narrowbands. It's just that a wideband helps you be at sync with the tuning.

2) You could even run 20 Psi with stock internals; but things would start blowing up sooner rather than later... factory spec Impreza's & EVO's run with 17-20 Psi, but their engines are built to handle that pressure. Cast iron blocks with about 1.5 inches of spacing between the liners. It's not just the pistons, Akshay...reliable builds require a lot of bheja-fodi in terms of engineering & costs.
1. Overrated. I think it will work fine, seeing from personal experience.

2. Yes, but our friend here wants ~10 psi daily drive and 3 days a year at 16 psi.
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Old 9th September 2007, 20:01   #23
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I'd like to know which production turbo car out there is using a wide band AFR in the world market?
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Old 9th September 2007, 20:06   #24
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Quote:
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I'd like to know which production turbo car out there is using a wide band AFR in the world market?
Easy. The new Bugatti Veyron1!
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Old 9th September 2007, 20:25   #25
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Atul mere bhai, wideband AFR will also be a part of the list. So worry not.
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Old 9th September 2007, 20:47   #26
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congo on the new build rahul .. sorry cant give you advice since i my self am a novince .. hope to see your car burning up road soon
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Old 9th September 2007, 22:54   #27
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower (G16B or Baleno specific Turbo related thread. Need your inputs.)
I'd like to know which production turbo car out there is using a wide band AFR in the world market?

Easy. The new Bugatti Veyron1!


!
NATURALLY ASPIRATED US Spec & Japanese Spec K20 Type R ECU uses Wideband Oxygen sensor as default & measures 11.5 to 20.1 A/F Ratio.
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Old 9th September 2007, 22:57   #28
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Actually certain versions of the 1.8T from VAG use a Bosch wideband O2. But I'm still not convinced that you need one to tune.
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Old 9th September 2007, 23:55   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
But I'm still not convinced that you need one to tune.
Not trying to convince you, but a narrowband sensor operates between 0-1 v & its primary function is to maintain stoich value 14:7 a/f ratio. Wideband doesnt uses A/F ratio it uses lambda value so with narrow band sensor & richer air/fuel mixture will have low lambda reading.
A narrow band sensor has lambda range 0.95-1.04 where as a rich mixture for full boost turbo should have 11.5-11.8 a/f ratio & will have a lower lambda value (far less than <0.95)which a stock narrow band oxygen sensor cannot read.
So its up to the tuner how he want to setup, either go proper way using wideband or go blindly with narrow band.
I would personally put wideband before the turbo install so that part throttle tuning can be done precise.
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Old 9th September 2007, 23:58   #30
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Hmmm, you make a good point. Maybe I wasn't right.

Anyway, it's going to be a while before I need to worry about widebands.
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