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Old 10th September 2007, 00:07   #31
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Jitu, when are you going to answer my queries ?
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Old 10th September 2007, 00:26   #32
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Jitu, when are you going to answer my queries ?
waiting for sideways & psychos input, cause they are the people who have actually done turbo setup. Will contribute for sure, whatever little i know as the thread progress.
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Old 10th September 2007, 01:07   #33
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
But I'm still not convinced that you need one to tune.
cmon maan ...
ok tell me how the hell will you create the fuel and timing maps ??
what value of fuel or timing will your cells be populated with if you dont know your AFR ? if we know value of load and we dont know the value of target AFR how the hell will you create ur correction curves for fuelling or timing ?
are you going to guess it with EGT,knock input or rolling dyno pulls ?

This is a very cool experimental project we need to know exactly what is going on , Im even suggesting we go for a OBd2 scanner with wideband support..

Please explain to me why are you not convinced we dont need a wideband ?

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I'd like to know which production turbo car out there is using a wide band AFR in the world market?
Because they have already been factory tuned by a Wideband, parameters, fuel maps,+/- tolerances according to octane etc etc etc have been considered into the equation when they designed the engine the 1st place, once your base and correction maps are set you dont need a wideband sensor unless you are going to deviate from the stock cell values. production cars have knock sensors ,engine temp sensors etc which are good enough to let the factory ecu know if they need lower or higher fuel or timing values.

If you are going to modify the factory settings then we better need a wideband to understand what we are doing , we cant do it blindly just because the productions cars dont have widebands.
we need to know because we are going to create everything from scratch

Production cars dont have becoz they are having production stock ecu's.

Also I havent of any tuner remapping a ECU without a wideband, tell me you guys are joking or please make me understand Im wrong, I would like to learn.
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Old 10th September 2007, 01:11   #34
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Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
cmon maan ...
ok tell me how the hell will you create the fuel and timing maps ??
No idea. I'm not a tuner.

I've seen cars being tuned without the use of wideband sensors, which then ran decent boost (.5 to 1 bar) for a year without any issues. And gave like 9-12 kmpl while doing so. Either this person is lying through his teeth, or there really is a way to set a turbo up without a wideband sensor.

Whaddya say?
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Old 10th September 2007, 06:14   #35
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mclaren, most if not all of your 12 questions are very specific to the Baleno, and the best people to answer those would be someone who has a reliable, working system behind them. I am unfortunately not one of these people. If I do say something it will be mere opinion and I personally hate opinions on technical facts.

Some of your general queries can be answered by the the book on turbocharging by Corky Bell. I suggest you read it, there are things in there, between the lines, that you will positively not find anywhere on any forum.
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Old 10th September 2007, 13:26   #36
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Rahul, If you want to read up i have this book "Maximum boost: Designing testing and installing Turbo charger systems -Corky Bell" as Ananth mentioned. Its is very indepth and mathematical but again its theoratical. You may not find specific answers in that book. But the author does give guidelines for devloping a reliable turbo charger system and all that needs to be done to design one. I bought this book when i had plans of Turbo charging my Ikon but i gave up after realising i didnt have somuch time and resources to spend on TC my car. I can lend it out to you if you want it.
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Old 10th September 2007, 13:28   #37
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Shaz, I would appreciate the gesture. See if you can make it to the meet on Sunday. Or PM me your contact details and I will let you know where we can meet.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 10th September 2007 at 13:30.
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Old 10th September 2007, 13:55   #38
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Can I also borrow the book for a day? Am sure its a great book. Is it very expensive?
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Old 10th September 2007, 17:01   #39
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Quote:
Maximum boost: Designing testing and installing Turbo charger systems -Corky Bell
I have a softcopy of this book. I can mail it if you want.
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Old 10th September 2007, 18:05   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetanhanda
Im even suggesting we go for a OBd2 scanner with wideband support..
That's actually a very good idea. The only problem is that those thingies cost a bomb here. Bare-basic OBD2 troubleshooters with ports for O/P & interfacing start at 1 lac. Handhelds at 50K, which is why only factory showrooms stock them....

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r
Easy. The new Bugatti Veyron1!
Voye...I wish. I don't think there are buyers for the Veyron out there who'd like to tinker with the settings. Although there's an Arab I've heard of who has one- his Bugatti reportedly pulled 1300 at a rolling dyno...

Actually, production spec turbo cars don't even have boost controllers. But that doesn't mean you don't need them...
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Old 10th September 2007, 19:39   #41
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I have a softcopy of this book. I can mail it if you want.
Wow vabs. I'd love to read that book. The turbo is one addictive rush and the lack/rarity of practical examples on road for the esteem are holding me back.

Please email a copy to my email : buzzadi@gmail.com

thanks.
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Old 10th September 2007, 21:33   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
Because they have already been factory tuned by a Wideband, parameters, fuel maps,+/- tolerances according to octane etc etc etc have been considered into the equation when they designed the engine the 1st place, once your base and correction maps are set you dont need a wideband sensor unless you are going to deviate from the stock cell values. production cars have knock sensors ,engine temp sensors etc which are good enough to let the factory ecu know if they need lower or higher fuel or timing values.

If you are going to modify the factory settings then we better need a wideband to understand what we are doing , we cant do it blindly just because the productions cars dont have widebands.
we need to know because we are going to create everything from scratch

Production cars dont have becoz they are having production stock ecu's.

Also I havent of any tuner remapping a ECU without a wideband, tell me you guys are joking or please make me understand Im wrong, I would like to learn.
Thanks, but I am aware of how cars are developed by OEMs. What I am trying to say is the turbo customer dosent need to spend money on a wideband. The tuner will set the car (tune it so to speak) with it and then the customer should be good to go with a regular one.
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Old 10th September 2007, 21:58   #43
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mclaren dude I just PM'd you
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Old 10th September 2007, 22:04   #44
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Thanks, but I am aware of how cars are developed by OEMs. What I am trying to say is the turbo customer dosent need to spend money on a wideband. The tuner will set the car (tune it so to speak) with it and then the customer should be good to go with a regular one.
Agreed, but our friend here has too much keeda to let his tuner do all the work for him.
He needs a wideband coz it seems he is going to alter his settings for diff octane,diff boost levels, trackday car, hardcore drag machine or daily driver settings.
I dont think he should go to the tuner everytime if he needs to tweak something for a day or two.Also this a expensive experimental project so it would be better if has the tools with him and figures out exactly how his machine works on his own.
Its upto him - ie be totaly dependant on the tuner or go and do it himself
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Old 10th September 2007, 22:10   #45
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Chetan, I totally agree with what you said on PM. I was hoping somebody would start of a technical discussion. But no one seems to be interested for reasons unknown.

As far as the wideband O2 sensor is concerned, yes I would need one. But there is also another work around to this situation. Once the tuner sets up the standalone (because electronics is not my strong hold yet), you could feed in individual maps for various purposes like track, drag, daily use etc and toggle between the maps with the press of a button.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 10th September 2007 at 22:13.
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