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Old 10th September 2007, 23:07   #46
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dude... was just thinking ...
we need to start by asking questions like :
1] Whats the rpm my engine config can handle..
fix this 1st... find out ur rod/stroke ratio and come up with a rpm, dont push it more than that
2] Decide on a compression ratio, how much to lower, this is a g16 specific thing u need to do Rnd on and let us know.pistons,conrod,cams etc
3] Now think of turbo, how much boost does it generate @ what RPM, it will be easy to identify now becoz u know answer to 1 and 2.
4] Once u know ur turbo specs, u know what to do next.
5] After all that u can do RND on standalone ecu which gives u complete control over all the fuel and timing cells, Im sure u wont go for piggyback ECU's
6] After step 5 u worry abt BSFC,injectors,pump,fuel rail,ignition, MAP sensor,obd2,multimeter etc etc
7] we can start from 0 boost and then build up to whatever ur octane number is supported...

I think u need to come up with some sort of a list or sequence of steps 1st... and then nail one step at a time
You can post ur steps on your thread and then everyone can chip in, seems everyone finds your queries too generic or too specific to g16..

Just trying to move this thread forward, guys what u think ?
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Old 10th September 2007, 23:28   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
No idea. I'm not a tuner.
I've seen cars being tuned without the use of wideband sensors, which then ran decent boost (.5 to 1 bar) for a year without any issues. And gave like 9-12 kmpl while doing so. Either this person is lying through his teeth, or there really is a way to set a turbo up without a wideband sensor.
Whaddya say?
Dude, that guy must be damn good, and you seem to be pretty convinced also.
Anyways out here tuners use primitive stuff like Haltech,Motec,hondata etc so thats why they need useless stuff like widebands..
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Old 10th September 2007, 23:31   #48
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Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
Dude, that guy must be damn good, and you seem to be pretty convinced also.
Yeah, but then maybe since I know very little, it's pretty easy to convince me.
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Old 11th September 2007, 09:50   #49
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Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
Please email a copy to my email
File is too big to send as an attachment. Any idea how can I send it? I have rescently switched to MAC OS X. I still don't have any good compression software.
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Old 11th September 2007, 10:23   #50
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Just upload it on RapidShare: 1-Click Webhosting and put up the link here. How big is the file?
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Old 11th September 2007, 11:07   #51
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Done.

Here is the link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/54860253...boost.pdf.html
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Old 11th September 2007, 12:09   #52
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Nice one, vabs. Although the quality of the pages is a tad light...but a very good technical read....
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Old 11th September 2007, 15:31   #53
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Yah, the quality is not that good. I think its generated by scanning form the actual book.
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Old 11th September 2007, 15:39   #54
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Hi McLaren, so you've decided on the turbo ? I was hoping you would plonk in a bigger engine ! Thought I would wade in with some 'interesting', but ultimately useless, information...

0. McLaren, you need 200 bhp...
1. 200 bhp is equivalent to around 520 million joules per hour...
2. A liter of fuel contains around 34.9 million joules...
3. So, a 200 bhp engine must burn around 14.9 liters of fuel in an hour...
4. Engines are around 25% efficient, so your engine must burn around 59.6 liters of fuel in an hour to make 200 bhp during that hour...
5. 59.6 liters of fuel an hour, is 0.99 liters of fuel a minute...
6. Fuel requires 14.7 kgs of air for every 1 kg of itself to burn...
7. Air weighs 1.2 kgs per cubic meter at sea level...
8. A liter of fuel weighs 0.75 kgs...
9. A 200 bhp engine needs 0.99 * 0.75 * 14.7, or around 10.95 kgs of air per minute...
10. 10.95 kgs of air is like 9.13 cubic meters of air per minute...
11. 9.13 cubic meters of air is 9130 liters of air per minute...
12. A 4 pot motor, at 7000 RPM, takes in around 14000 cylinder-fulls of air per minute...
13. To take in 9130 liters of air per minute, each cylinder should displace 0.65 liters, or 650 cc...
14. The stock G16B cylinder displacement is 400 cc...
15. It looks like 650cc into 400cc would require a boost pressure of 9.2 psi...

I'm not an engine guy - I'm positive I've made plenty of miscalculations, & over-simplifications... Gurus, please wade in, save this thread, & drop your pearls of wisdom
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Old 11th September 2007, 17:23   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
15. It looks like 650cc into 400cc would require a boost pressure of 9.2 psi...

I'm not an engine guy - I'm positive I've made plenty of miscalculations, & over-simplifications...
Chill what is missed is the drive train losses + Temp of the pumped in air which in turn increases the volume. But you are pretty close. Here is the turbo that one can use to get close to 200 on the wheel (@ 15 psi):

MAKE : Garrett GT 25
HP : upto 260
A/R : 0.63

but that still is not the answer to the list of questions he has put up. I would reccomend a defn read to all that would like to dig deep into this subject as picking up a turbo is not that simple as it also depends on multiple other factors that can also be unrelated to the engine itself.
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Old 11th September 2007, 17:30   #56
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For ECU calibration a wideband is an essential tool.. You can get away by using just the narrow band but you know for a fact you cannot accurately tune for lambda values less than 0.95 ( typically where you make most power)..

@v1p3er - i am sure your tuner will agree


@mclaren - The scanner would'nt help you. I am sure its next to useless to look at what the orignal ECU is upto, especially if it goes bonkers after 3 or 4 psi.
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Old 12th September 2007, 01:17   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdkarthik View Post
@mclaren - The scanner would'nt help you. I am sure its next to useless to look at what the orignal ECU is upto, especially if it goes bonkers after 3 or 4 psi.
Original ECU? Scanner? I am confused!

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho
it also depends on multiple other factors that can also be unrelated to the engine itself.
Like?
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Old 12th September 2007, 01:49   #58
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Originally Posted by rdkarthik View Post
@mclaren - The scanner would'nt help you. I am sure its next to useless to look at what the orignal ECU is upto, especially if it goes bonkers after 3 or 4 psi.
dude .. u mean obd2 laptop based scanner with support for wideband ?
this will help him get some "readonly" info on the fuel trims,ignition adv/retard,basicaly all the readouts from the sensors and lots of data logging.. + pulling DTC's if something went wrong..
but nothing can replace a standalone ECU which can do all this
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Old 12th September 2007, 02:20   #59
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Yes, he had a turbo baleno with LPG. Last I heard he was on the verge of blowing his engine IIRC. Primarily because he didn't get himself an aftermarket ECU & bigger injectors. Then I guess he went to viper for rectification and since then no news from his end. Only Jiggy can clarify his current status I guess.
hi
i m sucessfully and satisfying running baleno with second hand toyota gt12 turbocharger (used in old cillica's) and powered by lovato direct injection programable LPG kit..LPG ECM was programmed by enrico thomas from italy came to ahmedabad.

i have driven 600km non stop with my baleno on hills(very great experience with turob on hill) and highways (way to saputara and nasik) and still runing daily 50km and covered 15000kms after Viperperformers (jigneshbhai) installed turbo and lovato installed LPGkit..still turbo works fine

Racing LAB from surat claims that they can remap any indian car's ECU (N/A , turbocharged , Supercharged engines)..contact them if u need to remap ECU .....they r willing to remap mine..but i m runing very fine with lpg turbo setup

i m very satisfied with work done by VIPERPERFORMANCE,mumbai
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Old 12th September 2007, 11:37   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
dude .. u mean obd2 laptop based scanner with support for wideband ?
this will help him get some "readonly" info on the fuel trims,ignition adv/retard,basicaly all the readouts from the sensors and lots of data logging.. + pulling DTC's if something went wrong..
but nothing can replace a standalone ECU which can do all this
yeah dude it does make a point, but with his E3 baleno in question its not really worth it to look at what the original ECU is doing..It limits the engine RPM (3k to 5k RPMs) when boost get past 4-5 psi..
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