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Old 16th September 2007, 08:24   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
You're best off not giving a 'workout' to your engine! Faults might develop!
I agree with that Vivek. I'll re-word what I said earlier:
".....Faults might develop that otherwise would not have".
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Old 16th September 2007, 09:06   #17
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>> However, when I shift using the same style in the Ikon (1.6 Petrol),
>> from 1st to 2nd, the front wheels spin momentarily and give
>> out a squeal. Gives me a kind of high, I admit, and makes me
>> think I am shifting really quick.


Same case with Verna CRDi too.
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Old 16th September 2007, 10:36   #18
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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Also the gear ratio of the 800 is pretty short.So the distance between 1 nd 2nd gear is not that vast as in cars like the esteem so thats why it has the capacity to spin the wheels in 2nd gear momentairly.
Always thought that the short gear ratios on the Ikon may have something to do with it. The M800 also has relatively short gear ratio, you say. So it might depend on the gear ratios after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
pardon my ignorance, but what is the intention behind that? do you get a higher speed at the end of this ordeal?

EDIT: just wanted to make sure you know red line is in RED for a reason.
The time spent while the clutch is pressed is directly proportional to the loss of revs while upshifting. So the quicker you shift i.e.(get off the gas, step on the clutch, slam next gear, depress the clutch and floor the gas again), the lesser revs you will lose while upshifting which will result in a higher speed being achieved that what you would achieve with normal shifting and the distance/time in question, being constant.

Yes, I know the REDline is in RED for a reason and hence I make sure that I don't breach it. Ever. Quick shifting will NOT get the motor into the REDline. however hard you try, since you are upshifting where the tendency of a motor is ALWAYS to drop the revs as opposed to downshifting which is ALWAYS associated with a rise in revs.
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Old 16th September 2007, 10:49   #19
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doomsday, if you get the perfect shift at 6750 rpm yes the baleno can wheelspin. But try doing it at about 5,500-6,000 (depending on how quick you can shift) rpm it will wheelspin more. I think its got to do with the torque curve. As you go higher on the rev range the torque drops. So when you powershift, if you are still in the torque band you should be able to get the desired results.
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Old 16th September 2007, 11:02   #20
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
doomsday, if you get the perfect shift at 6750 rpm yes the baleno can wheelspin. But try doing it at about 5,500-6,000 (depending on how quick you can shift) rpm it will wheelspin more. I think its got to do with the torque curve. As you go higher on the rev range the torque drops. So when you powershift, if you are still in the torque band you should be able to get the desired results.
Got your point Rahul, but are you sure that the Baleno in bone stock condition would result in the same? I shift around 200 revs before the redline i.e. 6750 revs. Lets see I have tried it several times but one more wouldn't do any harm. I'll have to wait to see when the car is available. As I mentioned earlier, I am not interested in wheelspins/squeals but only because it seemed to give me a feedback on how quick I was shifting.

P.S. Does the powerband of the Baleno last until the 6750 redline?? In other words, aren't there any dead revs after a certain rev count?
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Old 16th September 2007, 11:47   #21
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Yes, my stock baleno would wheelspin at 6750. But I would get more wheelspins by shifting lower. While you are at it, do figure out what model baleno it is. Because the initial lot and E-II IIRC have limiter at 6,500 while the E-III's have a limiter at 6,750.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
P.S. Does the powerband of the Baleno last until the 6750 redline?? In other words, aren't there any dead revs after a certain rev count?
The torque drops at about 5,550 IMO. But there seems to be power till redline. Revs are not dead till 6750, but you will find a slight drop at the end of the rev range.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 16th September 2007 at 11:50.
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Old 16th September 2007, 12:26   #22
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Yes, my stock baleno would wheelspin at 6750. But I would get more wheelspins by shifting lower. While you are at it, do figure out what model baleno it is. Because the initial lot and E-II IIRC have limiter at 6,500 while the E-III's have a limiter at 6,750.

The torque drops at about 5,550 IMO. But there seems to be power till redline. Revs are not dead till 6750, but you will find a slight drop at the end of the rev range.
Okay. It is a Sep 2006 model, so that makes it a E-III, I guess. Anyways, I'll try again when/if I get the chance since I will be back to Bangalore pretty soon, so might not get a chance to take the car out here.
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Old 16th September 2007, 21:37   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post

Yes, I know the REDline is in RED for a reason and hence I make sure that I don't breach it. Ever. Quick shifting will NOT get the motor into the REDline. however hard you try, since you are upshifting where the tendency of a motor is ALWAYS to drop the revs as opposed to downshifting which is ALWAYS associated with a rise in revs.
of course, you redline it BEFORE you upshift. you admitted it in first post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
This translates to redlining every gear (doesn't matter what car), especially from 1st to 2nd.
anyway. I understand the point about losing revvs. but your facts are wrong.

number of revvs lost are proportional to time multiplied by the RPM. the trick is to do it at low RPM if you goal is to save fuel (I am sure it's not).

if your goal is to gain high speed at the end of this routine, the trick is to spend less time in upshifting (because in that time, car is slowing down because of frictions) and attain the same (or higher) RPM by the time your upshift is complete. if you want to take advantage of flywheel's inertia, you shud not at all leave the accelerator, press the clutch, upshift (by that time your engine will be redlining), and leave the clutch. I guess that's what you are trying to do. Of course for us regular guys, replacing the clutch plate so often is too tedious and costly to try these stunts.

BUT, I believe that is not your goal either, you seem to be interested in the squeal, which brings the tires into the picture as well.

well, it's your money, spend on tires, fuel, parts.....just make sure that you do it on private tracks so that rest of road users don't have to bear with it (I am sure you know a spinning wheel is an out of control wheel). rash driving by it self is an offense.
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Old 16th September 2007, 21:58   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
well, it's your money, spend on tires, fuel, parts.....just make sure that you do it on private tracks so that rest of road users don't have to bear with it (I am sure you know a spinning wheel is an out of control wheel). rash driving by it self is an offense.
Well said Vivek!
It would be best to do these stunts at a private track. It would not 'impress' too many ordinary folk who have an equal right to use public roads.
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Old 16th September 2007, 22:06   #25
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doomsday, I'm sorry if you find my comments offensive, but frankly, you need driving lessons. Basic driving lessons.

Go have fun on a quiet open road occasionally to get that testosterone out of your system. Or get married. Or something.

The way to give your car a workout, for real, by the way, is to take it on a nice, long, smooth trip.
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Old 16th September 2007, 22:38   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
I don't get to drive very often, but whenever I do- I make sure I make 100% utilization of the time I get behind the wheel. This translates to redlining every gear (doesn't matter what car), especially from 1st to 2nd. (Mostly because thats all the shifting you can do while in the city here )

I noticed something rather recently. While driving a Baleno, shifting from 1st to 2nd, at ~6.5K RPM, it just kept on going without drama. However, when I shift using the same style in the Ikon (1.6 Petrol), from 1st to 2nd, the front wheels spin momentarily and give out a squeal. Gives me a kind of high, I admit, and makes me think I am shifting really quick.

However, the strangest part is that nowadays I also drive my friend's M800 ('98 4-speed carburettored version) and shift from 1st to 2nd quick enough (no tacho, hence shift between 35-40 kph on speedo), the front wheels spin momentarily and give out a squeal as well. Considering the power the 3 pot mill generates; I concluded the wheelspin+squeal was not determined by how powerful the car is.(Among these three cars, at least).

So what is the factor that leads to this phenomenon? I know that the Ikon has shorter gear ratios (when compared to the Baleno, don't know about the M800). I am guessing that gear ratios might have something to do with this; but I am not sure in what way. Can someone please throw light on this?

P.S. I went back and tried shifting real quick in the Baleno, but was unable to generate any wheelspin/squeals shifting from 1st to 2nd. All the three cars mentioned are in factory stock condition.
understand torque, thats what its all about.

try stunts in private roads or tracks etc.. coz things can get ugly in a regular road pretty fast.
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Old 16th September 2007, 23:04   #27
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Stop taking his trip guys.Hes not going to blow his engine by redlining the car in the first two gears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Yes, my stock baleno would wheelspin at 6750.
Yes,please note he also ran stock tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Because the initial lot and E-II IIRC have limiter at 6,500 while the E-III's have a limiter at 6,750..
Isn't it the other way round?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
understand torque, thats what its all about.

Yep,youll get the longest wheelspins at the rpm where your torque peaks.Needless to say,your clutch will take a beating and may slip.

Last edited by binz : 16th September 2007 at 23:07.
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Old 16th September 2007, 23:23   #28
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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
of course, you redline it BEFORE you upshift. you admitted it in first post.

anyway. I understand the point about losing revvs. but your facts are wrong.

number of revvs lost are proportional to time multiplied by the RPM. the trick is to do it at low RPM if you goal is to save fuel (I am sure it's not).

if your goal is to gain high speed at the end of this routine, the trick is to spend less time in upshifting (because in that time, car is slowing down because of frictions) and attain the same (or higher) RPM by the time your upshift is complete. if you want to take advantage of flywheel's inertia, you shud not at all leave the accelerator, press the clutch, upshift (by that time your engine will be redlining), and leave the clutch. I guess that's what you are trying to do. Of course for us regular guys, replacing the clutch plate so often is too tedious and costly to try these stunts.
As I said earlier, and you reinforced it, if I am redlining the engine, and then shift using the method you specified above (shifting without getting off the gas pedal at all). I'll end up hitting the rev-limiter. Which is not what I am trying to accomplish.... Spend less time while upshifting- yes, definitely.

Double clutching: Read Post #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
BUT, I believe that is not your goal either, you seem to be interested in the squeal, which brings the tires into the picture as well.
I believe that you have not gone through what I posted earlier, quoting you. Post #16.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
I did not want to experience it, just because of the accompanied sound effects- but because it seemed to provide me a feedback on how fast I was shifting.I just want to shift quick. Although sound effects etc. are acceptable if they are a by-product of quick shifting.
and yet again, post #20

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomsday View Post
As I mentioned earlier, I am not interested in wheelspins/squeals but only because it seemed to give me a feedback on how quick I was shifting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
well, it's your money, spend on tires, fuel, parts.....just make sure that you do it on private tracks so that rest of road users don't have to bear with it (I am sure you know a spinning wheel is an out of control wheel). rash driving by it self is an offense.
I ensure that there are no vehicles or pedestrians or stray animals around while I am at it. Since a Baleno will go upto ~60 clicks in first, it is impossible to execute the mentioned shifts while traffic is around. I believe in safe driving on when traffic is around and more so since I am a biker full-time and have experienced first hand what inconvenience rash driving by vehicles around oneself causes.

All these antics are tried at 3 am in the night until break of dawn. Thats all. I hardly commute on four wheels. Perfer two wheels to commute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
doomsday, I'm sorry if you find my comments offensive, but frankly, you need driving lessons. Basic driving lessons.
No offense taken, but if I need driving lessons: I don't know where to get those from. Coz the last time I took them; the instructor told me to shift into 4th at 35 kph.(It was a M800, nevertheless in my opinion it is an overkill)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Go have fun on a quiet open road occasionally to get that testosterone out of your system. Or get married. Or something.
If the testosterone is what you call it, then thats what it is. This is, I guess, what drives all racing drivers and automobile journalists. Getting married is not even close to the solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by binz View Post
Stop taking his trip guys.Hes not going to blow his engine by redlining the car in the first two gears.
My point exactly. But wouldn't be too happy to meet the rev-limiter though.

Last edited by doomsday : 16th September 2007 at 23:27. Reason: Read Binz's post later.
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Old 16th September 2007, 23:33   #29
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Stock Baleno engine, even with 185 tyres, will wheelspin if you shift quick anywhere above 4000 rpm.

Anup, Vivek, really, this guy is asking a question. Do you have to come in everywhere and condemn everyone who doesn't drive the way you like?
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Old 16th September 2007, 23:55   #30
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He's talking about a very extreme driving style, which is certainly in my opinion, a very wrong driving style.

At least he says he only does it when the roads are empty, although I don't think imposing the noise on others at night is a good idea either.

This is kiddy stuff.

There are tracks and events where people are free to do it and enjoy --- and even the audience will enjoy too.

Sorry, but I do think that the city streets are a place for more grown-up driving. Even if every bus, truck and travels car in this city disagrees with me....
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